The Fly Fishing thread

“OK, I've seen lots of promises in other threads that SOMEONE was going to start a Fly Fishing thread.

I am an AVID fisherman, lots of ultra-light spin-casting exp. but I want to get into fly fishing. Where do I start?

Need a good pack-rod recommendation, recommended basic flies, should I start tying my own, why or why not, on & on & on.

Have a couple books but want the feedback of real-world folks.

How 'bout it you experienced fly-fishermen...can you help out? I know I'm not alone!”

“Wanderer, to select equipment I suggest going to the most knowledgable fly fishing shop you can find. Your going to have to ask yourself lots of questions first. For example, what species of fish are you trying to catch? What size streams will you fish? What size flies do want to cast? Will you be fishing lakes? How much do you want to spend? Etc.

I have a lot of Orvis gear and am happy with it, but there is so much good gear on the market today you really can't go wrong with just about any of the top brands.
I would suggest eventually tying your own flies. It's much cheaper, but for me the better reason is, it will make you a better fisherman and it's really part of the sport. Who wants to catch a fish with a fly someone else made let alone one made in China? Not me. I love tying my own custom flies and seeing success with them and it's not hard. It's really an art and a science. I would recommend Gary Borger's video or take a lesson. I taught myself from the video.

The pack rod I use for medium streams is an Orvis tight loop 4 piece 8 ft. 4 wt. Eventually you'll wind up with a bunch of rods and reels. This is addicting stuff this fly fishing.”

“Well, I will fit right in then, cause I have an addictive personality!

RichB, screw this bullsh!t, tell us about your last trip!”

“The last time I fly fished?”

“Yes Sir”

“RichB lays the questions that need to answered to get started very accurately so I won't restate.

For the sake of trying to add something useful, I will say that just like with BPing, there are tremendous opportunities for a gearhead to go crazy with FF equipment, at least I do. With that in mind you might want to pursue quality products because the cheap stuff isn't all that cheap to begin with (a relative statement, I know). Aside from my most recent rod, a "cheapie" 5 piece Elkhorn 3 weight, I still get allot of pleasure from knowing I have quality equipment in my hands with 15+ year old Sage and Loomis rods. Fly rods develop character over time...getting a little emotional just thinking about it...*G*

Tying your own is great but not necessary to get started. It will definitly add to the experience once you get started.

Tommorrow after taking the hounds for a walk they get tied to a tree and get to watch me pursue the first push of steelhead up the river this season with dry flies. Hit 'em last weekend for the first time and "they're heeere". That's just the urban experience I'm fortunate to have nearby. Great fun can be had up high for brookies, not too challenging but fun nonetheless. Once work settles down the big steelies and salmon should be in and it'll be time to head to the coastal streams, yahooo!

If you like the simplicity, contemplative, back to basics, etc, experience of BPing you'll probably really like FF'n too. Go for it!”

“I'm pretty much a small streams fisherman and like to fish for wild trout in the mountains of PA. It's been so dry here for the past month that the small stream fishing is very poor so I haven't been out for about a month.
Last time I was out I fished a small freestone stream that has wild brook and brown trout. 9 inches is a nice catch and 12 inches is a trophy. Most of the fish I caught that day were small because the water was warm and not ideal conditions. I did manage to catch and release a few decent trout, but August conditions around here are generally not great. I usually fish dry flies 95% of the time. My top performer for wild trout is a lime coachman along with a one fly, adams and black or gray midges. Small stream fishing with midges is the ultimate challenge and for this I use an Orvis 6.5 ft. one ounce rod with 2 wt. line, 7.5ft. leader and 7 or 8x flourocarbon tippet. Size 20 or 22 midges are most common around here. Hope we get some rain soon I can't wait to get out there again.”

“Only thing in AZ to fish, really is small streams. 'Cept for Lee's Ferry (Colorado River). My 1st trip, I only got three bites all day, caught and released one Apache Trout with a dry fly Ü
...tippet-smippet, midge-smidge, U speakin a foreign language, but I'll learn Ü

where's Aero?”

“Go to the Cabelas web-site and check out their varied selection of matched combo sets. You'll find good equipment at good prices. You'll get rod, reel, line, leaders and maybe even a rod tube thrown in. My suggestion would be to purchase your flies at first. Often if you buy a dozen or so, they will include a nifty case to keep your flies organized. Fly-tying equipment is yet an additional expense and the materials can add-up as well. If you have a shop nearby, perhaps they would have workshops on flytying. Orvis has videos and a tying catalog which you should request just to get an idea of the costs.
Find out what the fish may be biting on the water you'll be fishing and use those flies. Often "hatch-charts" are available on the net for your waters. It really does mean something.
Last pieces of advice; good fly line is more important than the rod (IMHO). Get a "weight-forward" or "double-taper" definately NOT a "level-line."
Cast slowly - enjoy the rythym. Elevan o'clock, one o'clock; tic-toc,tic-toc. Slow-dowm and let the rod load-up. You'll see what I mean when you're out there. If you practice on the lawn (NEVER on the driveway) tie on an old fly with the hook cut off at the bend.”

“I have my grandfather's South Bend bamboo rod. I think he must have bought it in the late 30's or 40's.”

“Problem is that I'd rather hike than fish.”

“flyguy6x-

1st off, welcome back Ü

Secondly, I am a natural caster. Like many things, I am just naturally good”

“Don't buy the Cabela's 8 ft. 4 piece 4 wt. Greenwood rod. That's what I started out with and it's junk. It's poorly made and the ferrules kept coming apart. Orvis Silver Label is pretty good without costing a fortune and guaranteed 25 years. Buy a rod with a guarantee. They do break and Orvis will give you a new one no matter how it breaks.”

“wanderer- let's start here

You're gay

Ok, now, let's talk about fishin”

“Not that you would know anything about it

(oops, that was my dog, speakin, I apologize for his rudeness)”

“RichB, I'm not gonna buy no Cabela's piece of crap...I'm gonna by Sage or Orvis

graphite, cause it's light and tough

What the hell is bamboo?

I will get a weight forward line, probably spend $40 or so on the line, correct?

The rest, just looks like common sense”

“Well Wanderer, unless your wealthy this can get to be an expensive sport. Before you invest a whole lot of $$, if that is an issue, try something cheap and see how it feels. When you start to figure out how much you like it and how you go about it you will be better able to put down a load of $$ on just the perfect thing for you. Everyone has their own style and their own aspects of it that they most value.

I still have an old glass laminated pole that I had as a kid as well as an old glass and graphite pole that my dad threw away because he couldn't fix it to his liking. I fixed it. They both catch fish well.

I fly fish for trout in alpine lakes and small mountain streams. I've found that the best thing I can do for trout is to go far beyond the road and even beyond the trail if I can. When I have more time I'd like to fly fish for bass. They say that is exciting.”

“Good move Nimrod. A cheap rod with no guarantee is a poor investment. If you break it somehow your out the money you spent.”

“RichB, let's talk about waders..”

“I use Orvis Brouges over Hodgeman Bantam weight hippers since I don't go in deep water. Between the wader and boot I use a neoprene bootie to protect from stone damage.”

“cost??

*flinch*”

“The Orvis Brouges wading shoes are around $100, the bantam waders $28.50 and the booties $15. I also have a pair of cheapo nylon wading shoes, which are lightweight, but won't protect your feet well from stone bruises. I use them on some streams where they are OK. You can find wading shoes cheaper that will do a good enough job. When my Brouges wear out I'm buying something lighter since the Brouges are heavy and overkill unless you have weak ankles. I want a lighter shoe since it causes much less fatigue after a long day of fishing.”

“Hey, I just got back from Rapid City and I see we have a fly fishing thread. I love fly fishing on backpacking trips. I use a 4 piece Orvis pack rod(4 wt Rocky Mountain Series) and a few flies. My reel is fairly inexpensive (Orvis Madison) But, the main thing is to not listen to the fly fishing snobs and just go fishing. I thrashed the water for years and eventually learned to cast and select flies. It was all fun. I don't use waders very often (most of the trout feed close to shore) and I don't a lot of dry fies (most fish are feeding deep). Beadheads and nymphs are the way to go! Have fun!”

“Hello all,
Hey if you like to talk fly fishing, we have a whole sub site 6 forum subjects devoted to it at NC Trail Time, drop in sometime, also there is quite a bit of info on site.

Windwalker 2ooo
Manager
http://communities.msn.com/NCTrailTime”

“good one, windwalker. There's a ton of stuff on the web! Even the Orvis site has a tutorial on each component. You can always ask the folks at Trial Talk tho!”

“Wanderer,

Hate to disagree with these folks, but I have to.

The key factor in equipment isn't cost. It's making sure you have a balanced outfit: one in which the rod, reel, and line are made for each other.

Several companies make "kits" that include everything you'll need. Among them: Bass Pro Shops, Orvis, Sage, Cabella's, Cortland. I'm sure there are others.

Start with a balanced outfit. Get a few casting instructions. And then go out and do it.”

“colonialmiss,
Are you a Rebel Fan?”

“This will help no-one and is just my personal opinion. I fish small to medium sized freestone streams in upstate New York, mostly for browns and sometimes for rainbows and brook trout. I fish the West Branch of the AuSable, the Chateaugay and the Marble rivers near Malone, N.Y.

If I were to begin now, I'd do some things differently. In spite of the fact that I own 2 Orvis cane rods (8' Battenkill for #6WF and 8½', cane Limestone Special for #6WF) and a Hardy Palakona Cane, 8½' for #6, I would buy a Fenwick Eagle 8' for #6 line. As I do with my rods, I would use a double taper #5 (a rod rated for a WF line will take a DT one weight lighter - use this for rods with a two-line rating) for most fishing and a WF6 for windy days and close-in nymph fishing. A double taper roll casts much better than a weight forward and roll casts are very useful on eastern streams where there is a lot of brush and trees. Rods shorter than 8' don't roll cast well. While WF lines are touted for distance casting, particularly in windy conditions, their up-front weight makes them good for very short casts when a DT won't load the rod - particularly with a long leader.

Buy tapered leaders. You can fish all season with one by clipping off the worn end and tying on a tippet when necessary. I tie my own, but still use the basic 9', 4X for just about everything. Buy a dry fly assortment and a weighted nymph assortment, they ought (as someone mentionned)to come with a box. I find reading glasses on a neck cord to be very useful for tying flies to my tippet (I'm 53). As Ed Zern once wrote, 'If the trout want a fly smaller than #16 and a tippet thinner than 4x, they can damned well find themselves another fisherman.'

I don't use a vest; I prefer a shoulder bag, but I'd buy the least expensive vest that looked like it was of decent quality in the local sports' shop, or an inexpensive model in a good catalogue.

I have had all kinds of waders and wading boots, including leather/canvas custom boots. Felt soles are important - buy the cheapest to begin with. My buddy, John, claims he can hear the barbed wire slithering along the ground toward him as soon as he slips on his expensive neoprene jobs. Waders just don't last. I now buy the cheapest nylon hip waders from Cabela's and their velcro closing felt soled wading boots. I can afford to change the waders when they tear (they wear surprisingly well, however) and the boots have lasted longer than any others I have owned.

I learned a long time ago, that doing whatever it is that pleases you is a lot better than putting it off until you can afford the gear you want.

I intend, in fact, to buy the Fenwick Eagle and retire the cane rods to a wall rack.

You'll soon meet other anglers and you can upgrade according to your conditions and casting preferences as you go and learn - without having to use expensive gear that you invested in at the beginning. Others can help you with different waters and conditions - I prefer only to discuss what I know.

Learn to read the water. Brown trout especially, prefer to lie in front of rocks, or tightly to their side, as well as in front of the lip of the current as it leaves a pool. They will always seek shade. The bigger trout under branches get that way because they are seldom caught. For a beginner, the most effective fishing is usually exploring these spots with a weighted nymph fished downstream almost like a worm/spinner combination. In fact, you can often outfish a live bait angler this way. No matter how well you cast, if you cast where the fish are not, well, you guessed it.

It takes about twenty minutes of fruitless casting to limber up and adopt the rhythm of the water; when that happens you will know the magic of the moment. If you're lucky you will find yourself sharing the water with a heron, neither of you alarmed.

Be observant, match your flies to the colour and the size of what you see. Trout are seldom more selective than that - unless they know you're there.

Study to be quiet.

Tight lines.”

“Oh yes. Buy a good quality reel. I use a Hardy Marquis #6 and would not change it. Any angler will tell you that a reel is not that impôrtant a piece of equipment. This is true, but, like any out fo doors gear, it becomes important when it fails. A one piece frame is the most reliable; and an adjustable click drag is essential. Polarised glasses with the lightest coloured lenses (usually yellow) and a cap with a bill are also useful. I think I'll go fishing this evening if it doesn't pour rain. After late spring, I fish in the evening (early morning's good too.”

“Rent "A River Runs Through It" You can watch Brad Pitt fly fish.”

“Well said, Gremlin. I too like to use a 4x tapered leader, but I tie-on a tippet section of 6x (it really seems to help the drys to float down to the surface.)”

“Gremlin, you probably don't want those overpriced bamboo rods cluttering your house so why don't you just send them to me instead *G*

Seriously though, why don't you want to use them anymore? Is there a functionality problem or are you just as happy with a "workhorse rod"?

Agree with your assessment of DT lines, I've used all kinds of WFs and prefer DT for most trout situations.”

“What would be a good rod to ward off a bear attack?”

“re-bar”

“How do you guys like bead heads? I've been using them for the past few years and have had really good luck. The dry fly purists will probably wince, but I have more days when the fish are down deep. I still fish with dry flies when the hatch is on and I'm seeing them rising, tho. I do a lot of fishing in alpine lakes and smaller streams where a beadhead or nymph works well. Sometimes an ant pattern.”

“I've been slaying 'em (trout)this summer on a "Dave's Hopper" (14 or 12) and trailing a "telico" or a "zug bug" (16) about 12" behind. In the deep pools, I'll take off the trailer and weight the hopper and dredge the bottom for big'un.

I use the cheap Cabella's combos so that when I break one (at least once a year), I can just toss it and grab another.

I use a 7.5' or 8', 4 weight, double tapered line, usually with a 6x tippet.”

“It took some getting used to for me, but they also work for me. I do believe in the flash is good theory, representing the gas bubble of an emerger, and all that. I'm still a little hesitant on smaller bugs, but wouldn't sink a golden stone without a bead. BHFBPT's are real big out west. The Mercer micromay is a top performer too, but I attribute that to the split tails and tie my PTs that way too.”

“Trail a bead head behind a Dave's Hopper. Good fun.

It always seems I catch the biggest fish on the trailer and the smaller fish on the hopper.”

“Leatherneck,

A Rebel what?”

“I guess not. I was thinking you might be an "Ole Miss Rebel" fan. I read your name wrong. I thought it was "colonelmiss" not "colonialmiss". LOL

The "Colonel" is the Ole Miss mascot.”

“Aero- fly fisherman are snobs? that's what I like bout backpackers, no snobs, just a bunch of whiney butts

ever see a backpacker look at a rock and say--Oh No, my As$ is too clean for that rock, they will however b!tch & moan about the conditions”

“No problem with function when it comes to bamboo, but it has become so expensive and rare - none of my rods is still made - that worry about the rod is cutting into my fishing enjoyment.

Although cane is unmatched for sensitivity - important when nymph fishing - carbon fibre is almost as good and it does cast better in all situations.

About bead heads - an oldtimers trick on the deep step pools of the West Branch is to crimp a split shot on the eye of the hook of a weighted nymph. It can be deadly. Tight lines.”

“Thanks to all who posted. Some of the info is new & informative, some is obviously BS, some I will investigate further.

I KNEW I'd get a lot of great feedback / opinions from this crowd...a sincere thanks to all!”

“Do some of you also tie flies? I was thinking that looked like fun. I have seen pretty complete fly tying outfits on ebay. Do you think that is a good way to go to try out tie flying?”

“I would start out by determining what flies you want to start with and just buy the tools and materials you need for that, and then you can add to it as you go along. That will allow to focus on buying tools and only the material you need, not a bunch of unnecessary stuff.”

“Good advice Rockbuck and I second it. Go with a reputable specialist rather than a general outdoors catalogue. I can swear by Orvis, but there are others. Like handloading, I'm not sure you will save a lot of money, but you will get more bang for the buck so to speak. Of course, I had to develop allergies to fur and feathers - I'm also allergic to chalk and a teacher (the kids love it). As an activity in itself, it's a lot of fun and can give a lot of opportunity to develop your creativity. I only took one lesson of an introductory course and with the Orvis manual (and others since), I was able to improve rapidly and tie very decent flies in a short time.

I think that weighted nymphs are best to learn to fish at first and also to tie. Good luck.”

“I just returned from a weekend of fly fishing on the Grande Ronde in Northeaster Oregon.. I think I finally learned how to "load the rod".. And after getting my knuckles rapped repeatedly... I now know that it is a ROD not a POLE!!! LOL... I was so impressed with my ability to actually get the fly out where I wanted it (without hooking everything behind me), I forgot that I was "fishing"! When that steelhead took my line, I forgot everything about "catching".. Of course, I lost it, but it was fun for a few minutes. Now.. I need a heavier rod, waders, etc.. etc.. but, I'm hooked!! Another problem is when do I find time to work with adding yet another outdoor obsession???”

“Work it into you're BP obsession! Around here in Norcal, the high mountain lakes are loaded with extremely aggressive brookies, I bet the lakes in your area are too. I always have a little 5 piece 3 weight with me (it'll be a whole new gear obsession for you too). You can catch so many it gets boring after awhile actually.

If you're in the Norwest you're in FF nirvana. Heck, you could just go fishing when there's nothing else to do up there. Some people spend years and thousands of $$$ trying to get into a steelhead - congratulations!”

“Hooking steelhead is one thing, landing them is a whole nother matter”

“I used to fly fish but I had such a hard time getting those teeny-tiny hooks out of the fly's mouth. Not much meat on them either.”