Your favorite 4 WD ?

“I hate shopping for a new car. It's become a lot easier since the last time I bought a new one, though. I spent a lot of time in the past year searching the web for info., cars, data, ad infinitum. At least, I could get a lot of the frustrating stuff done without the often unsolicited input of some eager beaver sales person desperate to meet month end quota's for bonus.

Because of my increasing interest and participation in backpacking, and the possibility that I might eventually become interested in some Winter excursions, I concluded that a 4 WD would be an appropriate vehicle. At least, that's what I convinced myself to believe. And so, I was - for the last year - on a mission to seek out the best choice for my needs.

Three weeks ago, I got serious, and took several afternoons to shop the local dealers, then headed out of town, and then back again. Long ago, I found myself leaning twoard the Jeep Grand Cherokee, Nissan's Pathfinder, and Ford's Explorer. I looked at others, but to me, these were the most visually stimulating, had lots of eye candy on the interiors, seemed most ergonomic. In the end, though, I found the Pathfinder to be most appealing, and so, completed the sale last weekend.

I've been driving this thing for a week now. I like it. It has a non-traditional, elegant look. That it is capable of 4 WD is quite subtle at first glance, but climb inside, and the temptation to shift into it's performance mode is tempered only by the most obvious fact that I'm in the suburbs, and nowhere NEAR the necessary geography in which to manifest this newest tractional feature.

No matter. I will be.

How about you? What's your favorite?”

“For me it's my one and only... The one who gave me my first time. Gingerly throwing it into "4WD H" in anxious anticipation of a rolling adventure.

It was not without a few bumps and scrapes along the way. Clmibing up the steep hillsides to ever greater adventure. Making it to high mountain meadows to spread out the blanket on the soft grass.

My '89 Jeep Cherokee Laredo I've had about two years now...... I think I'll keep him! (knock on wood for the tranny!!!)”

“Obi, I think the ads caught another fish. You don't need a big gas guzzling 4WD to get to any trailhead. Any car would make it, actually a sh!tbox is even better...no one would even want to break into one of those.
Are you going to drive your $40,000 jeep into the deep woods, so you can get it's paint job all scratched up? Are you going to take the chance and have your tranny, suspension and under carriage etc. all bashed up? 98% of SUV drivers wouldn't.”

“I've got a six year old Ford Exploder -- with a two year old transmission ! *G*

Other than that, No Problemo! Right? (fingers, toes and eyes crossed)

I hate entropy.”

“Congrats Obi, one of the guys that come out w me has had a Pathfinder for about a year now, he loves it.

BTW, ignore Stanlee. I don't know where he's from, but I know where we go, and can tell you I'm very glad I have had my 4WD a NUMBER of times the last couple if years. There were a few times I got out of places others couldn't...

Which reminds me, I'm starting to gear up for some winter camping trips, let me know if you're interested!”

“Not all of us use tourist trail heads...out here in Northern CA ( and I know many other places) we have some wonderful places to hike, ski and climb that you won't find on your tourist map's, they require 4 wheel drive and skid plates. My 89 Ford Ranger ( 150,000 miles) is dented, scratched up and the skid plates are thoroughly trashed. I have done 3 brake jobs, changed belts 3 times, hoses twice and soon I will do my third tune up...that's all I have ever done, it just won't break (knock on wood).

I realize that 99 percent of the city folks that buy SUV's will never take them off road, but among hikers, backpackers and country folks that number changes drastically. Out here in red neck country we use our SUV's to go to go the mall, but we also use them to check up on cattle, go 4 wheeling, drive up 15 miles of snowed in road and explore for new caves, hiking and climbing areas.

Were not all fish, or as one of my partners used to say ..."we ain't no fu@*ing tourist!"”

“About 4 years ago, I was sooo tempted to get a 4Runner...it was the "in" thing to get (a SUV). But I weighted the pluses and minuses...gas consumption, pollution etc. vs off-road usage, prestige etc....and I ended up getting a Honda Civic. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a SUV, it's just not for me.
Wanderer, if you had a vehicle and you suspect you might get stuck at a certain spot, would you have gone there in the first place? You have to know your vehicle's limits.
Mtnsteve, I understand completely if a person need a 4WD in their jobs ie. forestry, cowhands, building industry and general off-road use etc...but in general, I think most hikers and backpackers are city folks just out for a weekend or couple of weeks outing, which really don't need a 4WD...just my opinion. What do the rest of TT'ers think?”

“Wherever the car parks is the start of the hike. I can definitely hike through anything you'd need 4wd for anyway so it seems rather redundent to me.”

“I can show you places where you have 20 miles of bad road just to get to where your going to start hiking....during winter some of the trail heads I use are not plowed for 10/20 miles...not sure about you, but spending 2 to 3 days just getting to the trail head is not my idea of fun.”

“Like Mtn Steve I am not a "fair-weather" camper, and end up a lot a places others don't. That's why I bought my SUV in the first place. Some of the trailheads I go to require a long drive over un-paved, dirt / gravel roads, poorly maintained, etc. I also happen to enjoy winter activities a great deal, snowshoeing, winter camping, etc. Most of my outings are in the Sierra Nevada mountains in Northern CA. Stanlee, again I don't know where you spend your time, and mean no disrespect, but I can guarantee you that one NEVER knows for sure what kind of weather (read: sudden snow) will hit or long it will last in those mountains. I've seen my road to the TH washed out between the time I went in & came out a couple days later.

These are some of the reasons I absolutely can justify driving my vehicle. Maybe "most hikers and backpackers are city folks just out for a weekend or couple of weeks outing, which really don't need a 4WD...", but I am not. I've also hiked with Obi in those same mountains, my guess he'd also like to get home safely in the winter!”

“I personally like rock hopper modified Jeeps, but that's not to practical for around here, so I would have to say my favorite is a Nissan X-Terra. No I may never have to use the 4-WD and I may never go off roading, but at least I have the capability and 4-WD is a savior in Indiana Winters. Also, I would buy an SUV like that not only for those capablities but for the fact that I want to be able to haul around gear and SUVs do a wonderfull job of that (and they look a hell of a lot better then a Mini-van).

BTW: anybody with an SUV, please realize that they are NOT sports cars and will not handle like one. Just yesterday I saw where a SUV had been taking an on ramp too fast and had lost control. It left the ramp, went into a small grass median and upon hitting the edge of the pavement completely flipped, landing with the front driver side down, completely crushing the cab.”

“I'm not a fairweather camper either, I just add whatever I need to when planning the trip. To me, any hiking is good even if it's the hike up the road to get to the trail.”

“I've had my '96 Explorer since it was new. It's been a great vehicle for me. It's in great condition with 107,000 miles. I've used it more to get to ski areas before the roads were plowed more than to get to the trailhead. I've gotten to and from ski areas in bad conditions that I may not have done without 4WD. Everyone has their own reasons for getting a 4WD.

I have not had any problems with it other than a recall for a front swaybar attachment. Mine broke before the recall and I paid for the repair. When the recall came out, I took the receipt to the dealer and my money was cheerfully refunded by Ford. I've kept up with all the recommended maintenance.

I would get another 4WD vehicle in a heartbeat.

Don't you just laugh at all the people that get accessories like brush guards? You can look at them and tell they'll never take it off road and risk scratching the paint, much less break things like headlights and taillights.”

“1985 Jeep. Good luck with your Pathfinder I hope it came with a GPS to "find your path".”

“ski- I would probably get a brush guard just because they look bad ass. Hell, it's just like hiking gear. You may never need it, but you can say you have it and you spent a lot of money on it.”

“I saw the funniest thing on the way to work the other day. A car with a brush guard on it. I know we have a deer population problem here, but that's ridiculous!”

“Sea to Ski = Jeep YJ (Wrangler)... perfect, for my playground!”

“Anybody got or looking at the Jeep Liberty? So far I just can't handle the looks of those things!! Seems the dealers LOVE them (of course, something new to sell) and the Jeep newsgroup people hate them (don't take away our traditional Jeep Cherokee!!)”

“Stanlee - when I posted this thread, I did so with the idea that people who liked/owned/preferred 4 W/D's would take time to respond... It wasn't an invitation for those who oppose them to post their opinion, and I'm not interested in reading them. My thread title and post would have been different if I WERE.

I appreciate your perspective, and for some of your reasons, we are in agreement. Nevertheless, I'm seeking positive input here, not necessarily justification by the masses for my decision.

Thanks for your understanding.

Wanderer - Living in the North bay area, I often wanted to head to Tahoe or Reno in the wintertime, but would never risk it with my traditional vehicle. I used to live in Michigan, and I can guarantee that the winters THERE do a fine job of training you in how to drive in the snow and ice. Believe me, a 4 W/D makes things much, much easier, and safer. And since I plan to spend some of my winter play time on the other side of the mountains, I'm perfectly content with now owning a vehicle capable of getting me there with greater odds of success and safety. Period.”

“Lizs- That Liberty doesn't look like a Jeep, to me. More like a Honda or something. From what I hear, Chrysler is having trouble meeting their overall EPA requirements, because they sell so many Cherokees, and will be stopping production. I've been seriously looking at the new model”

“Congrats Obi! You made an excellent choice and I will assure you that you can enjoy many (300,000+) miles in your new Pathfinder. That's a fact, I've spent the last 3 years selling Pathfinders and they are rock solid trucks!

3 months ago I quit my job and went to work at Saturn. I went to Saturn because of the way they do business (the one price sticker system) and a good friend was the general manager. I regret my decision now. Last week I met with my old manager, and I will be going back to Nissan next week.

Nissan is a really exciting company, incredible vehicles. They have also cut their margins so far that they are forcing the dealers to go to a one price system, like Saturn, Infiniti, and Mercedes. Soon all manufacturers will be doing this. About time!

Have fun in your Pathfinder. BTW, which model did you get?”

“Obi, Mtnsteve, Wanderer and anybody else, I didn't mean to offend anyone...just putting in my .02. You guys have some very good points...if you feel that's the kind of vehicle you need to get to, or beyond the TH and back safely, by all means buy them. My statements are just generalizations. Peace.”

“Living in mountain country we have had 4 wheels for as long as I can think. The last two have been Explorers but we have owned half a dozen others over the years. I wish I had the skid plates on the one we own now--I have bonked the bottom several times.”

“amen, bc!

tj sahara!”

“I've owned a Jimmy, a GMC full size and a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I loved my Jeep. Right now I'm driving a 4WD Ford Aerostar.

Gotta love those remote hikes and Michigan winters. :o)”

“Currently own Chevy Z71, have owned Toyota PU and Explorer. If I were looking for an SUV now I'd probably go with Toyota or Nissan. I think (hope) you'll love yours!

If you want to hike, drive, ski, fish, etc. in NorCal 4WD comes in real handy. I'd still probably be out there without it.

How 'bout that Hummer?!?! *G*”

“I would like to own the Toyota Land Cruiser... but it's much more glamorous these days... than I remebered it. My first vehicle was a 1947 Willy's with a 289 cu. in. Ford Mustang engine
and it was a blast to drive. Nothing like owning a 4W drive, to give you another excuse to head for the hills! Congrats OWC !”

“I had a '72 Jeep Wagoneer while in college. It had a hole in the top of the gas tank and water would get into the gas. I cleaned the rust out of the carb jets on my dorm room desk one Thursday night so I could leave ASAP on Friday. An engine mount was broken so the engine vibrated and the starter would wear out once a year. There was a hole in the heater core, so I disconnected the heat. That wasn't so bad, but not having the hot air for a defroster was not so great. That rig could go anywhere. I tore a fender zooming around cutting firewood, pulling out my buds in their pickups. Finally my parents "repossessed" it because I didn't keep up my payments. Hey, I was making good grades and having fun, what more did they want? :-(”

“what lizs said, Jeep Cherokee with big tires..older style mudslinging Bronco..anything small and Japenese (especially Toyota)..anything Big and American (the Silverado, 3/4 ton Dodge Ram or F-150, 250 or 350)..anything that looks like an SUV but handles like a porsche

..can you tell I don't have a 4 WD? Do I care? no, cause I never have to drive Ü”

“Love my '92 Subaru station wagon...best of all worlds: great gas mileage, all wheel drive, fair amount of cargo space, and best of all, completely paid for! I have also owned a Jeep Cherokee & a Ford Explorer. Of those two, I liked the Jeep better although the Ford was real cushy.”

“Mid-1980's full size Ford Broncos. Best power to weight ratio and weight distribution for traction on rear axle I ever dealt with. I used to do coal mine reclamation, very nasty off road stuff. I had two of these trucks. In today's market the GMC Yukon is probably the best, used several years so you don't worry about the scratches. Almost none of these actually get off the pavement anyway so the 4wd parts are virtually new. All this to say I drive a big Dodge Ram 4x4, as I now need a p.u. truck more than a SUV.Its got 135K mi and going strong. If you really need a vehilce for serious off road stuff look for limited slip and traction locking axles on the front and back and remember almost no commercial vehicles are really meant to do that for any significant period of time. You destroy your investment pretty quickly. PS Brush guards are BS for kids.”

“i want an xterra, a rav4 or a cherokee. i dont really want one of the big bad ass suv's.

knowing how to drive in bad weather is more important than 4wd. everyone gets big bad ass suv's for winter hwy driving, which is great, if you know how to drive it.

while driving any of our major hwys here in the great white north during a winter storm about 90% or more of the vehicles in the ditch are suvs.”

“The venerable Ford Ranger. I have a '92 that gets me where I need to go, and is still pretty economical. About 28 mpg on the highway. It carries alot of stuff in back and has an extended cab for things you want to keep inside.”

“I had an '87 Ford Ranger that I donated to the Salvation Army last Dec. I put 201,000 miles on that puppy and never had to do any engine work or replace the clutch.

When I was in High School, my dad worked for International Harvester and we always had a Scout as the family car. We would "borrow" it, go 4 wheelin, wash it real good and bring it home. My dad thought we were great for always washing his vehicle. If he only knew!”

“My favorite WD40 is the 11 oz aerosol -
so versatile!”

“94 subaru wagon

98 subaru sedan”

“LOL! @ gojo!!

I like the one with 20% more for free.”

“i always lose the little red straw!

d'oh!”

“Congrats Obi Wan. I started out at 11 in a 1948 Willys Jeep (still have it) Then '73,and '83 Jeep CJs, four Broncos (may the line rest in peace) Kept the '79 Bronco as my "beater". Drove and hated a Ford Expedition (see The Simpson's Canyonero)(Torsion bar suspension broke) and traded it on a Toyota 4Runner. After driving the Toy I am happy with it but envy the better headroom of the Pathfinder. Many happy years to you. Change oil often cause that's the life of the engine.”

“I love my Toyoa Tacoma, nothing like backcountry car camping! I would like to upgrade to a 6 cyl. though. I also need to get my frame straightened out so my tires can be aligned.
I agree that you could probably make it to the "major" trailheads here in the SW but if you really want to explore the desert 4wd is a must. You just got to love the "Not county maintained" road signs!”

“Another N. Cal. hiker chimin' in here. To hike the wilderness areas of N. Cal. (Snow Mtn, Yolla Bolly's, Siskiyou in particular) 4WD is as key to completing the trip as is the other 10 essentials. I've been driving Toyota trucks for over 8 years now. When I got my first one in '93, we went up to Snow Mtn and the Crockett Peak TH (30 miles of dirt road and 3 stream crossings). After about 5 miles of dirt road we came to the first stream crossing (Rice Forks) That's where we saw the Bay Area liberal standard issue (Volvo Wagon) parked at the crossing. The poor sap had 20-25 miles to go to get to the trailhead, most of it dry, brushy and with south-western exposure. The guy had no chance of having a successful trip unless he was carrying 15-20 pounds of water and 6 days to hike.

As previously mentioned, winters here are predictably unpredictable and 4WD is the SAFEST and often the only way to go.”

“Hey Wind Walker, I own a Land Cruiser, and agree w you. If I were buying today I might go elsewhere, not because it's still not a great vehicle, but because I wouldn't want to pay for the "luxury" goodies. Too bad they couldn't have just let the Lexus version appeal to the yuppies, and left the basic Land Cruiser alone.”

“Any nearby 4WD in the event of a bear attack would be my favorite.”

“We won a 1991 GEO Tracker at Disneyland and put 160K miles on it before a major engine problem. It's 4WD capabilities have always impressed us. The current rendition would be the Suzuki Sidekick since the GEO may not be around much longer. They are smaller than most of the others being discussed.”

“m-nutz - thanks for the insight. It's an SE, though I hoped to find an LE - a moderately nicer package, albeit pricier than I might have paid. Still, it's very nice, and I'm pleased, at this point, with my decision.

Sidenote here... I took it to the dealer this morning to have the CD 6-disc changer replaced. The original was defective, and since it was under warranty, no problem. However, an hour later, when I arrived at my office, I noticed the plastic cowl around the gearshift was scratched up pretty good. I found out later that they were so anxious to get the job completed and out, the tech neglected to put down any protective material, and wrenched some permanent grafitti in it. They admitted their fault without hesitation, and a new part was ordered immediately.

Stanlee - no problem, my man. Thanks, again...”