World Tade Center

“Gas stations going nuts with the rumor of prices up..I just drove on by.”

“This is CRAZY! Airport security is pretty lame. They just ask you if you packed your own bags and then let you get on the plane.

I was just in NJ at Liberty State Park just Saturday morning. I even took pictures of the NY skyline. Who'd of thunk 4 days later some of those buildings would be knocked down!”

“I've heard they can make hard-plastic guns that evade metal detectors. Where there's a will, there's a way.”

“kleetn just said, they used knives and box openers”

“Radagast,
I'm extremely sorry for using race as a tactic. That line of thought scares me more then anything else. My grandfather has numbered tattoos on his arm. Shake and make up?
Markar”

“I thought he was talking to me ?”

“Some folks here really need to get a clue. This was not an attack at a political party. This was not the fault of "a" President. The people cheering in the streets don't care what political party is in what office. This is an attack on the way of life each one of us enjoys. WE have a President. WE chose to live in this country and pay taxes to run and support this country. It has nothing to do about "a one-way street". WE need to stand behind the person that is currently in command, and to do so half heartedly or begrudingly is bullsh!t.”

“Anybody else receive a similar statement from your financial advisors?

-We cannot allow these acts of terrorism to bring down the U.S. economic system. We strongly recommend that investors not sell positions once the
markets reopen unless they had planned to sell those positions prior to the attacks or they are in need to raise cash. Maintaining the strength of our
markets and the economy is one way we can strike back at these acts. The
various exchanges will do everything possible to maintain orderly markets.
The cooperation of individual investors is crucial to their success.-”

“steve hiker, I still don't understand what you would suggest as a solution. Do you not believe that some sort of retaliation is in order? Obviously, your concept of genetic improvement of the species is not working fast enough, at least for the victims and families of victims in the World Trade Center and on those hijacked airliners.”

“I was just camping in this beautiful campground in Ky..... Trees, and birds, and squirrels, peace and quiet for the first time in weeks.... then all this. Im not sure how to feel right now????? The marketer who helped us get Duofold as a sponsor works in the World trade tower... I think Im numb”

“Whatever we do it must be judicious.”

“Bin Laden has recently been threatening actions on a grander scale. If it's true that he's behind this despicable, cowardly act, then it's long past time we take off the gloves.

We've become so "moderate" in the U.S. that when actions such as those today DO occur, our government promises to "bring those responsible" to justice.

Justice.

What IS that, anyway?

What is it in THIS case?

I've come to believe - today, in fact - that we can no longer so passively stand by and take the abuse of terrorists, and/or those who take the lives of innocent people, using them to accomplish their fanatical, holier-than-thou beliefs. How can we, as Americans, continue to sit quietly by, while the world's bullies pummel us without regard for human life, decency, and ignore indivivual rights to live free, and believe as one will?

Opposed as I have been in the past to radical actions and retaliation, it is now time, I believe, to grow up. The terrorists are forcing it upon us, and to ignore the call to arms, to belay the threat to our safety, our freedom, our families - and most importantly, our country - is no longer an option.

Off with their heads.”

“Amen, obi. I completely agree with you, and with W when he says that he will not distinguish between terrorists and those governments who knowingly harbor terrorists.”

“Bomb the !$%&s now.

Apologize for "collateral damage" later.”

“Ummm, Baume...I did say "we have to stand behind [Bush] in this crisis." I think just about everyone else has said the same--as they should. I merely pointed out that this was in marked contrast to the way many on the right behaved when someone with whom they disagreed happened to be in the office.”

“markar,

i ate dinner, and cooled off. i guess that you haven't been around enough to know how i feel about that, so it's all good. sorry for all of the bystanders who got nailed with an "F" word.

i ate a large, rare steak, at outback. it's will do wonders for the soul!”

“&%$!@

What a crock.

I said BA$TARDS, and I meant it!”

“All I could think about on my 90 minute bike ride home. Seems like a night for reading Psalms and Jefferson on defense of Liberty.

When I left on my bike this morning, nothing had happened. I was told by a total stranger the minute I walked in the back door at work. My ride home was very different. I pass through very low income and Hispanic neighborhoods, blue collar, white collar and upper middle class. Everybody seemed to be treating each other a little differently, looking at each other a little differently. Grim looks of understanding and determination.

My 15 year old had a cop in his class today, talking about something else. He opined that each generation has its war, and that this is my son's war. He may be right-the war of terrorism has now had its Pearl Harbor, and Bin Laden and his ilk will not be through until we finish it.”

“I went for a run tonite at 930. I saw gas lines into the streets. I saw a gas station without gas and closed. I was in class in the town with the second highest population of Middle Easterners outside of the Middle East. I fear for those people. I cant recall a day that I prayed more. I dont ever remember being as shocked,sad,horrified and enraged as I felt today. 250 plus fireman and police officers died today,just in the rescue. God only knows how mant died initially. And so many more will die,in New York and elsewhere before this tragedy ends.”

“I will add my sentiments to so many others that have said the same. Find those responsible and then bring them to justice. Terrorism will find no sympathy. I hope justice can be swift and certain!”

“In case my views are not clear to everyone, YES we should retaliate against the bastads and/or nation that sponsored them.

However I'm looking at the bigger picture. Retaliation is appropriate, but will not solve anything in the long run. The cycle of retribution and self destruction will never end until we change our fundamental, hostile nature as a species.

Today's events give us an opportunity to look at who we really are.”

“Retaliation is the answer, because it's nature's course that the strong & dominant survive. Eat or be eaten.”

“Can I eat ya lips?

:-P”

“I'd really enjoy that, esp. after today's stress. Let's get together and "eat" each other.”

“Lips, U R right, survival of the fittest, smartest, cruelest (?) etc. Too bad humanity have not really evolved during the last million years...we're still savages deep down.”

“You're right stanlee, we have all this advanced technology but are really still Stone Age apes living under the law of might makes right and survival of the fittest. Don't know how much longer we can operate like that. Either we'll blast ourselves back to the Stone Age or evolve past ape brain.

Now, back to my intriguing hushed conversation with dear LH ...”

“Oh steve, you're just terrible!”

“Hee heee”

“Sh!t, steve, I did it again. The above post from Lookingglass was from me. I'm not used to hubby posting on tt.

If it were LG posting, he would not have called you terrible. It would have been something much worse.”

“The psychology of terrorism is quite insidious. The taking of innocent life using random acts of violence is intended to cause us to either give up our freedom or have it taken from us under the guise of "safety". The goal is to take away our freedom without conquering us.

Terrorist culture only knows, responds, and respects one thing...force. It is not a war of words, logic, ideology and negotiation. Otherwise they would have ran their planes into that farce called the UN building, and not symbols of the US economy.

IMHO Bush's speech stole the terrorist's thunder. I was surprised that George Stephanopolis sort of agreed with that in his commentary after the speech. The less disruption to our country, resolve to stick together, and swift justice to those responsible, then the better chance we have to prevent more terrorism in the future.

If Bush uses this to grab power, then we lose two ways.

I went to a special prayer meeting at our church tonight. About 500 people showed up just from word-of-mouth. It was very good and it sounds like many other churches and people did the same thing.

God help us all.”

“Phil, my prayer today has been for the President and the families of those who are devastated. Let's hope our God will guide us in the days ahead.

Remember the prophecy of the sword in Ezekiel 38?”

“I haven't been on TT for the past couple months. After being deluged with an onslaught of images all day in a TV newsroom, I figured I could get an intelligent discussion here. I also needed a different perspective than that of news directors and producers.

My wife, like many of you here, watched the events unfold live. I can only imagine what kind of a gut-wrenching and horrific experience that must have been. Watching the replays now, after knowing about it are bad enough. I just saw video on one of the networks of someone jumping - Damn!

I understand now how people joined the military after Pearl Harbor. I want to kick some terrorist as$ now. I hope we find out who did this and bomb the sh!t out of them. If it's Bin Laden, let's get him and put him in a field somewhere and let the citizens of the U.S. take care of him.

If someone's declared war on the United States, they've won the first battle, but they've managed to piss off 287 million people in the process.

I've been working 14 hours and I'm ready to go home and sleep so I tihink I'm starting to ramble. I'm sure I'll have some pretty screwed up dreams tonight.

Can you imagine being on a BPing trip for a week and coming out of the woods to the news that the most prominent landmarks in the nation's largest city were destroyed by terrorists...weird. Ok I'm really starting to ramble now.”

“I was in Italy on deployment when we raided Libya for their involvement in harboring terrorists. And as a weapons tech, I was scrubbing carbon off an F-15 20mm canon when I heard the news. It felt very satisfying that all that hard work went to a productive end.

During a variety of NATO exercises year in and year out, our military folks prepare for worse than what you might imagine.

Here's my view going forward:

Any third world nation or group that attempts a military confrontation with the U.S. should have to face an unbearable consequences. However, if you have a look at Sun Tzu's Art of War, in it you'll see that smaller forces are pretty effective using a strategy of attrition. We saw some of it in the Vietnam war.

Here, with terrorism as our enemy, we are being out-flanked by smaller opponents with less resources. We have also been progressively picked at until finally we've arrived at this level of escalation.

Our national safety is our foremost interest, and we have shown over many years our inability to manage the terrorist assaults brought to us by terrorists.

This, I think, is the rationale our country should adopt for a declaration of war against terrorism.

Our methods of warfare should be both economic and through military force. Diplomacy or a civil resolution as we see with our so called drug war will lead us to further defeat.”

“Phil, what do you mean with "we lose two ways?"”

“Steve, you Neanderthal, leave Lips alone...always thinking with your other head. Lol”

“The future does not belong to those who are content with today, apathetic toward common problems and their fellow man alike, timid and fearful in the face of bold projects and new ideas. Rather, it will belong to those who can blend passion, reason and courage in a personal commitment to the great enterprises and ideals of American society.

-- Robert F. Kennedy”

“I agree Phil, I hope this does not turn into an exercise in partisanship”

“Hello from Korea. It's stunning news over here as you might guess. My question: why not place blame for this on George Bush? ...BOTH of them. I felt when George W. took office that the USA was headed for disaster. Just never could have guessed THIS would happen. Where was that fourth plane that crashed in PA headed? White house or US Capitol Building?”

“Spock, get a clue. Dubya had nothing to do with this. On a lighter note, about now would you rather have a draft dodger in charge of the world's greatest armed forces?

I fully agree with and support Dubya in his comments about holder the perpetrators and those that harbor them responsible. If this were a "simple" murder case, the driver of the getaway vehicle would be charged with accesory to murder.

I'm concerned about kneejerk reactions, but I've heard more than one call to a war on terrorism, ignoring boundries. After a little time has passed, I wonder how America will feel about that? How would the world feel?”

“Goodby to Korea. Devisivness is not what we need right now.

How could a plane that took off from Newark and crashed in north western Pennsylvania, be headed for Camp David in Maryland? Do I need a geography lesson? My guess is, it was headed for the Sears Tower.

My first response was shock. My second response was anger (nuke the SH*THEELS).

If we learn to hate as much as those creatures do, then we have become bugs, as they are. The people who perpetrated this and the people who celebrate this, have already destroyed themselves and their humanity. They are already consigned to hell on earth through their hatred.

I would like to see a calmly rational approach to these bugs. We should be taking lessons from Mossad. This is the time to develop new strategies. I would like to see something like defective phones in the hands of these bugs. Ooops, his phone blew up right in his ear. What a tragic accident! We need to take years to infiltrate these groups and wipe them out before they can commit their crimes against humanity. Let us be careful not to hate groups as we kill individuals off.

More alternate energy sources! More efficient building design! We need to start making many changes. We cannot be complacent.”

“Uphill Klimber-
Hellloooo, we DO have a draft dodger in charge of our armed forces!
Maybe that doesn't matter as long as he's a Republican Right-Wing Weenie.

The Blame Game gets us exactly nowhere.

I'll go along with a war on terrorism, just as long as we FINISH it.

That sort of thing must be total war, not some half-azz attempt.

Among my siblings there are seven boys.......two 18's, two 16's, two 15's, and one is 11.
bacpac's boy is a jar-head and there are many other wonderful young men in this country.
Let's not make killers out of these guys TOO hastily.

Some of you talk mighty BIG about sending SOMEONE ELSE'S boys to squash the bug.

How 'bout some of you studs go and join the infantry.

Hell, Maybe they'll take me back!

The young dudes can sit this one out.
Let's send the BABY BOOMERS!”

“Tehipite, it was the "saddled with","I suppose" and "I would be a whole lot more enthusiastic about it it" that I was commenting on. Anyone, including Senator Hatch (who has shown his a$$ and more then once already on this) who blames this on "a" President is way off base.

The plane that took off from Newark and crashed in PA (southwestern I thought) had made it as far as central Ohio before it turned 180 degrees and headed back east. Who knows where it was headed.”

“Steve Hiker:
"However I'm looking at the bigger picture. Retaliation is appropriate, but will not solve anything in the long run."

Really? Violence solves nothing in the long run? Perhaps we can ask the city fathers of Carthage about that. Violence solved that issue pretty well.”

“Cartilage?”

“Heard a great comment this morning on NPR: The Pentagon is doing business today, but not business as usual. I think that speaks for the country.”

“Yesterday someone posted a question regarding the locking of cockpit doors. I emailed my brother who's a pilot for Continental, and here's his response:

"By federal regulation cockpit doors are required to be latched from takeoff to touchdown. Company policy requires that we lock the door upon completion
of the after-start checklist, or as soon thereafter as the lead flight attendant gives us the final count of passengers. But these aren't exactly vault doors.

They could be kicked open by the equivalent of an angry 12-year
old. That's a purposeful design, in the interest of allowing the sliding flight deck windows (and overhead escape hatch on some airliners) to be used for emergency egress. Also, there is one key that opens all cockpit
doors on every Boeing, Lockheed, McDonald-Douglas, and Airbus
airliner. That's in the interest of allowing all flight attendants (and pilots using the lavatory) quick and easy access to the flight deck in case of crew member incapication. In other words, a locked cockpit door works best to keep a disoriented passenger from thinking the light deck is a place to urinate.

It's quite a different story with airliners designed in the former Soviet Union. Some 15 years ago, a family of disgruntled Siberian entertainers hijacked an Iluyshin 62 on a flight from the Russian far east to Leningrad. The wanted to fly to Finland. After the crew landed at a Soviet military base, the KGB ran the anti-hijacking operation from the
flight deck, which they entered through the windows. During the flight and the 12-hour standoff which insured, the hijackers never had a prayer of breaking through the vault-like door that protected the cockpit.

Totalitarian states, which fear the enemy from within, have different engineering priorities.

Hope this helps."”

“Being here...in NY...running with people...crying with people...watching the buildings that are a part of my life just disappear...smelling the soot that is all that remains...

Nothing compares to the grief I feel...daily life matters little...find some way to help - any way you can.”

“Wall-Man, we are with you but helpless. Specifics! We are a long way away. Blood donations of course. What else?”

“Violence can solve some problems. It also can create huge ones. We are fortunate that the US and its allies were able to apply enough violence in Europe to defeat the Axis in WWII.

Steve Hiker is right in saying that the human propensity to act on our violent barbaric impulses and to place our reason, intellect and compassion in service of these impulses will continue to cause us grief.

I'm no pacifist. Violent barabaric actions are sometimes necessary. Any country that won't take appropriate retaliatory steps in today's world is in deep sh!t. But any country which does not use violence judiciously can dig themselves deeper still.”

“I wonder if we lost any TT'ers, and how would we know?

I've thought of this before. If I died no-one would know how to inform TT. You'd all just think I stopped posting.”