Sky High Gasoline

“Labels? Liberal environmentalists are EXACTLY who I'm addressing. How is that personal. Next time I'll say "People who follow the progressive movement and have decided to perform certain actions in their lives to attempt to protect the health of the planet".

Give me a break Treebeard. That is a political term which applies exactly to who I am addressing. Personal? Get a pair dude.

re: you ride mass transportation. So you don't drive a car?

re: flawed logic on fuel efficiency. Um, you're wrong pal. SUVs are in another category which have increased in efficiency almost 50% since 1975, so HA! HA!”

“I drive a car, yes. Way less than the average American. I would estimate my family uses mass transit in a far greater proportion than you do, or most anyone on here, for that matter.

And stop the bull. Your posts are inflammatory. You throw that stuff in there for that reason alone. Flame on, but you deserve everything you get.

Get a pair dude.

Sarge
9:07:34 AM

This requires a two word answer, but I'm going to refrain...”

“Fork Chew? Ford Spew?”

“Sarge, the problem with your statement (or at least the way I read it) assumes that the percentage of car drivers and SUV drivers has remained the same where in reality there has been an increase in SUV drivers vs. cars. You also said that peoples incomes will go up as well, which is true, but there is a lag time in there. The price of gas seems to go up every week, while most people only get a raise in pay once a year.

BTW yes I do drive a car to get to work, but I also traded in my old one for something that got better gas mileage two years ago. Mass transit is basically nonexistent in my area. If there was a good system in place here, I would probably use it.”

“How many things can you think of that have not increased 25% in price in 25 years? - Sarge

Exactly”

“Sarge, the problem with your statement (or at least the way I read it) assumes that the percentage of car drivers and SUV drivers has remained the same where in reality there has been an increase in SUV drivers vs. cars.

So? Is this a global warming debate? The amount of return on your fuel investment is MUCH better than it was in the past.

You also said that peoples incomes will go up as well, which is true, but there is a lag time in there. The price of gas seems to go up every week, while most people only get a raise in pay once a year.

What is the increase in wage per year vs. the extra cost of fuel per year? (not including better fuel efficiencies, which increase mileage per gallon)

BTW yes I do drive a car to get to work, but I also traded in my old one for something that got better gas mileage two years ago. Mass transit is basically nonexistent in my area. If there was a good system in place here, I would probably use it.

Actually, you probably wouldn't. Most transit systems are failing because people don't use them.”

“Treebeard - If I told you what agreed with your beliefs, you wouldn't think I was being inflammatory.”

“It's not what you, but the way you say it...

You complain when others do it. Hold yourself to the same standard. That's all. I don't want to get into this any further. I have said my peace. Please treat it as rhetorical. Over and out. Got work to do...”

“Be specific. I'm giving an alternative view, which obviously offends you. If you follow what was said, I was just stating statistics, you were the first to say my logic was "flawed at best". Inflammatory? Yes. You didn't back it up with any facts, which is fine, but you're just sniping me.”

“TB - would your two word reply by the name of the place in Thailand that got hit by the tsunami?”

“Blame high prices on the traders, according to Stratfor:

Most oil traders make the lion's share of their money hedging in favor
of conventional wisdom, attempting to predict the extremely short-term
gyrations within the market. This is not predicting prices on a weekly
or even daily basis but often on a minute-by-minute breakdown of
whatever news happens to be circulating on the trading floors -- or,
more likely in this era, across the various computer screens of traders
the world over -- at any precise moment in time.

As such, it is a market that trades heavily on emotion -- particularly
fear and surprise -- and inaccuracy. For example, news of an attack
against a supertanker off the coast of Yemen will send prices soaring
because of what the news represents: a belief, however fleeting, that
al Qaeda has decided to target the oil markets. Within hours --
sometimes minutes -- it becomes apparent that the worst is not the
case, and the markets settle. But not before a handful of enterprising
individuals who heard the news first and made bets on how everyone else
would react to the sensational news have walked away quite a bit
richer.

That is a big part of what pushes prices higher

;-)”

“Average US salary: $36,764
Average raise: 3%
Annual increase (adjusted after income taxes): $661

Today's average gas price: $2.37
Average ags price one year ago: $1.88
Average miles driven p/household: 12,100
Average mpg: 24 mpg
Avg. gallons of gas used per year: 504

August 12, 2004 gas cost: $947.52
August 12, 2005 gas cost: $1,194.48

Increased cost: $246.96 (more than 1/3 of your raise)
This doesn't include your haeting/cooling/product cost increases due to the rising cost of gas.

Basically, middle class and poor folks pissed thier entire raises, if they got any, away, and who pocketed it?

OIL COMPANIES.

Enjoy the raise. Thank gawd our government and automobile makers are pushing alternative fuel vehicle engineering so aggressively!”

“So what you're saying is, people have more disposable income than they did a year ago BB. Cool!

Hey, do people who make $36,764 pay 40% in income taxes?”

“Also, BB, your figure includes individual incomes, but families share cars. For example, my wife and I both work, but we share a ride. We both got raises last year, but our buying of gas remained the same. You wouldn't double the additional cost of gas for our household.

BB, you math is all wrong, and it STILL shows that people are better off than last year looking at gas spending. LOL”

“1. I included legal fees for the lawsuits people like me will file against people like you.

2. I hit the wrong button on the calculator.

3. All of the above.”

“When is your lawyer going to contact me BB?

Why don't you put the correct figure on here for us?”

“$2.59/gal today.

My raises were never equal to inflation. I think you'll find that most employees aren't getting the old standard 3% per year anymore, at least in this area.
Our union is negotiating a 2.3% raise this year and is taking a healthcare cut to compensate. Times are tough in this part of the country.”

“Gas by me went from $2.59 yesterday to $2.71 this morning!

$3.00 gas, here we come! It is getting expensive to cut my grass!”

“Sass, you should look into the increased cost that your school district is paying for the increase in energy. One of my locals had to pay 1 million dollars more that the previous year. You know what that does to raises.”

“BB - Where are those corrected numbers?”

“anyone who thinks raises are in line or equal with inflation is out of their friggin mind. govt jobs might are probably excluded from my statement”

“Get a better job if you feel you're underpaid.”

“job has nothing to do with it. Raises aren't tied to inflation anymore (unless you work for the govt)”

“job has nothing to do with it.

Huh? If you need more money, work a job that pays more, or get a promotion.

Raises aren't tied to inflation anymore (unless you work for the govt)

Huh?
last edited: 8/12/05 12:00:31 PM”

“govt jobs are probably the only jobs where raises and inflation are tied together. I don't know that to be true and I don't have time to check.”

“Ewker - You just complained that they weren't in line. Why would you do that unless you thought they were tied?”

“I just showed you the average for all jobs, not just government jobs.”

“your chart means nothing. you can find anything on the net to prove a point one way or the other”

“you didn't read what I said. In my first statement I said govt jobs might be excluded from my statement

"anyone who thinks raises are in line or equal with inflation is out of their friggin mind. govt jobs might are(typo here should be "be") probably excluded from my statement”
Ewker
11:32:13 AM
8/12/05"
last edited: 8/12/05 12:08:13 PM”

“I figured that I am OK until gas prices hit $4.00 a gallon. When and if that happens, I may be selling a vechicle or riding my bike to the train station.”

“

Hey, it was a great party for the last 15 years; now time for the hangover!”

““your chart means nothing. you can find anything on the net to prove a point one way or the other” - Ewker

Ok. Go ahead. Show me a chart that proves the opposite is true.

you didn't read what I said. In my first statement I said govt jobs might be excluded from my statement - Ewker

What? I did read your statement. I said "I just showed you the average for all jobs, not just government jobs." That means my chart isn't for government jobs. Only 8% of the workforce is government jobs. You are spinning this out of control. Are you a politician? I clearly showed you your hypothesis about inflation/raises is incorrect. American workers are enjoying greater standards of living than ever before.”

“From what I heard it's not only tight oil supplies worldwide, but the U.S. refining capacity that is causing the increases. Anything that happens to a refinery causes a price increase. It seems like that might be subjected to being abused like the electric companies did to Californians.
last edited: 8/12/05 1:25:31 PM”

“Last I heard before the latest round of increases was that supplies were up and OPEC had increased production. The price was supposed to go down.

Then came the "security scare in Saudi Arabia." Then Iran crept into the equation. Next the caribou will have drunk up the North Slope supply.”

“I don't know that to be true and I don't have time to check.”
Ewker
12:02:23 PM
8/12/05”

“you were the first to say my logic was "flawed at best". Inflammatory? Yes. You didn't back it up with any facts, which is fine, but you're just sniping me.”
Sarge
9:39:31 AM


You want facts, Jack? Guess what. It's a fact that every time I go out on the highway, I count more and more gas guzzling SUV's every day. Wanna argue with that?

It's an easy count, BTW. There's usually one about 6 inches behind with his/her white knuckles grasping the steering wheel with all their might. In the interest of fairness, about half of them only have one white knuckle on the wheel. The other's holding a cell phone in their ear.
and, how about some more tax breaks for those hummers, eh?”

“I've got about 1 year left on my Jeep lease and I told the wife there's just no way she's getting one of the new Grand Cherokees. Even the Liberty deisle is going to be borderline.”

“WASHINGTON (AP) -- The pinch at the pump is starting to feel more like a punch for a growing number of Americans.

With gas prices soaring, almost two-thirds of those surveyed for an AP-AOL poll expect fuel costs will cause them financial hardship in coming months. That was sharply higher than in April, when about half felt that way.

link

--CNN”

“BB, he could be independently wealthy, in which case this wouldn't bother him.”

“Folks, this is known as Peak Oil, and the cheap ride is over.

The good news is this will be good for the planet, once we rediscover local production and local consumption, the only type of consumption that's sustainable.

I'd suggest you get a bike, find work closer to home, and relocate to an area where everything is close by. That, and make sure there are plenty of good, local, organic producers in your area.

The prices aren't going down; they're going up.”

“remember when gas was in short supply and the gas stations were only open so many hours a day if they were open at all. Lines were down the streets for blocks when they opened.

Anyone remember what the price was back then.”

“No, of course I wasn't even born yet. Don't you feel old now Ewker. ;-)”

“The prices aren't going down; they're going up.”
karma police

Want to bet?

http://www7.pinnaclesports.com/guestcontestLines.asp?redirected=yes&ContestType=Gas%20Prices”

“I filled up last night on my home from the train station. $43.50 was put into my Jeep. My Volvo cost more to fill because you are supposed to put the high grade stuff in. I ignore that and use the mid grade stuff. I filled that car up 2 days ago and it cost $60 bucks. It gets great gas mailge though. I only fill that car up once every 3 weeks. Plus Barbie drives it so I feel better she is in a safe vechicle.

I am considering trading the Jeep in on a hybred in about one year. I want to get on a list before everyone has their entire family's name on it.”

“Me too WK. I have a Ford Ranger that gets 20 mpg. I filled up yesterday and it was about $50. It has 180k miles on it. This time next year I'll look into getting an Accord hybrid.”

“Want to bet?

http://www7.pinnaclesports.com/guestcontestLines.asp?redirected=yes&ContestType=Gas%20Prices”
_______________________

HA! So, Pinnaclesports.com is the absolute authority on energy prices?

I've got news for these folks. You'll see a few dips here and there, but the major trend is up, up, up.

If petrochemical companies are going to make money, there's no other choice than to charge more,since the remaining fuel is harder to get to and it takes more energy to transform it into a usable product.”

“Don’t worry guys.

A world-renowned geopolitical expert has assured me that everything will work out just dandy.

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/17963,-1,1.php#442997”