A call to arms, and a new way of warfare .

“Omahiker, go back and read what BB said”

“I have more fear in my heart over the hate I have seen on this horror bring to the surface, than I would being on the same flight with someone who is from the Middle East.”

“Biz, I did read what BB said. The people who planned this very coordinated attack against innocent American citizens were most likely not suspected of any illegal activity when they entered the country. I normally would not advocate intrusive inspections of people's personal lives, but in this case, I am willing to make an exception. At least temporarily, people of these particular national origins deserve to be under heightened scrutiny.”

“then go back and read what I said,
'if we had the resources to do that, that would be great'

again, I live in the real world”

“BB - I'm disappointed to hear some of your solutions and I disagree...”

“What's right has nothing to do with this jibber-jabber about "politically correct".

It is just plain wrong to REACT by not trusting our own citizens.

Aside from taking appropriate action against those responsible, America should try and find out just why these wackos hate us and try to work on that front too.”

“Tom T - "why these wackos hate us" is because we are not Islamic fundamentalists. And you know, if you want to talk about religious discrimination in its lowest form, you need look no further than the Taliban and its practices. They are currently prosecuting their own citizens for the crime of owning Bibles.”

“What this calls for is a series of precision strikes. First get rid of that damn assasination Executive order and then start targeting all know Terrorist leaders. Has anybody read "Executive Orders" by Clancey? That's how we need to take the !$%& out. If we hit the leaders and the major industrial plants in the nations aiding them, we can do major damage with little loss of human life. It's all about precision now, not massive destruction.


Even though a nice big EMP bomb would be kinda nice too.”

“Why do this people hate us so much?”

“I mentioned earlier that I'd be afraid of what might happen in Dearborn, (World Trad Center thread). Dearborn has the highest population of Middle Easterners outside of the Middle East. If I were of Arab desent I would be shaking in my shoes because of sentiments like some posted above. I understand the anger and the desire to do something to ensure this never happens again but please wait until we know who did it! For all we know it could have been Americans again, GOD FORBID. It happened before.”

“BB, I have hiked with you,drank with you,laughed with you and I like you. But I must disagree,I will attempt to do so in such a way as not to cause animosity between us.

Regarding expelling those of Arabs descent...I have a friend named "Steven" Mohammed Moazi. His family is Persian(from Iran). His dad flew US made helicopters,was trained by US pilots and supported US interests in Iran until the Shah was overthrown,he was then snuck into the US and has gained His citizenship. He is MORE of an American than you are behaving like today.

Before we jump to REACTIONS its important to have the necessary intelligence. That is why I am eternally grateful that as we speak Security professionals are doing their jobs. When the intelligence points to a target,then and only then should that target be engaged. We become what we loathe when we act without judgement or discretion.”

“For the record, one final time, I did not advocate violence toward Arab Americans, just foriegn Arabs. We must use extreme caution, and institute special rules for Arab Americans.

Joy & Tarabull, you both know the General is my best freind.... if somebody treid to harm him, I'd be the first one in the fray.


Point made.”

“I remember the old days when we found out who was responsible before we started killing people. I guess killing people and letting God sort them out has some appeal, but it doesn't make much sense to me.”

“There are ways to leave Iran legally, but I know several people who 'climbed the Mountain' to get out, illegally. They can never go back. They escaped into Turkey. This journey is done under harsh conditions, not to mention risking their lives with the risk of being shot at by their own military...once in Turkey they have to find a U.S. sponser (usually a distant relative in the U.S.) to be able to come to the U.S. When they get here they have to overcome language barriers, not to mention extreme prejudice...believe me, they love the U.S. and want to be here. Some of them will never see their parents again.. But it often parents that encourage them to come here.. because of opportunity.”

“We should blow up Palestine & Afganistan. So what women & children are killed. They are all future terrorists. I say do not employ our service men on the ground to be killed. Bomb the sh!t out of these countries.”

“for crying out loud, the above post under lookingglass, my husband, was written by me by mistake under his name, damn it.”

“Woah!

With the logic and reactions of some people here... I think that but for an accident of birth some of you would be the ones in the streets of the Palestinian Refugee camps cheering the terrorists, or maybe in the planes themselves.

These terrorists and those who cheer them are people who put their own sense of grievance, their own thirst for revenge above basic human values, above respect for all human life.

Shall we oppose evil by mirroring it, by taking on its ways?”

“Woah!

With the logic and reactions of some people here... I think that but for an accident of birth some of you would be the ones in the streets of the Palestinian Refugee camps cheering the terrorists, or maybe in the planes themselves.

These terrorists and those who cheer them are people who put their own sense of grievance, their own thirst for revenge above basic human values, above respect for all human life.

Shall we oppose evil by mirroring it, by taking on its ways?”

“I'm not saying that the perpetrators and those who knowingly supported them shouldn't die. I think its fully legitimate to kill them, if that is easier than bringing them to trial.”

“I must go on record here.
Instead of a yellow Star of David, those of "Middle-Eastern descent", (BB's words...he did not say only foreigners!!!), these people could wear a red crescent and star. Then, as soon as we have isolated this group of people, we will have a clear object for our hatred. Innocent or not, thes people will suffer massive inustice at our hands. This is ABSOLUTELY NOT THE AMERICAN WAY!!!!! I hope we willl not reduce ourselves to the cowardice you suggest, Bear.
You really do not deserve the term Buddha. You had better read his teachings, as well as Jesus'.
AND...can the "politically correct" crap! That is just a phrase to keep you from having to think.

I hope you are a big enough person to stick around and read these posts. Don't start a thread like this and then run away!!! That would make you an incredible WUSS!!!!!”

“And, you never did answer the question...what if it is a group of lily-white Americans who did this??? Still we should bomb the entire Middle East?”

“'I don't want to live where I am posting either'

I think he would condone bombing lily-white American as$, and the entire Middle East”

“Hey, Biz, how exactly do you "bomb" Americans?”

“In order to exterminate the culprits, I suggest we nuke everybody (except maybe the Canadians, they look too much like normal white folk.)”

“This is an incredibley terrifying thread.”

“This is an incredibley terrifying thread.”

“Obviously (or so I thought) a balance needs to be struck between protecting national interests and maintaining law abiding citizens' rights. We should have learned something from WWII and the relocation camps.

I am dissapointed to see so much talk in the media and here, of "retribution" so early. Our fist priority should be secure our country against further attack. Second we must save those who can be saved in the rubble and bury the dead and mourn. Those who investigate such things should be allowed to do their job, get the facts, and find the responsible parties with some certainty. Then, thirdly, we should vaporize them.

I understand the logic of your list Budda, and I can see it is born of patriotism, but to react as you suggest would make us instruments of our enemies.”

“If some Aericans did this, I suggest we find all the members in the group and do everything on the list. However, this is almost 99% not the case here. Almost all fingers are pointing toward Bin Laden. It is a fact that Bin Laden recieves money and information from members of his "gang" that live here in the US. I think most people here would agree that we need to do everything possible to make sure this doesn't happen again. My suggestions would make that goal mush more achievable than most plans.

I will say this again, Bin Laden was educated in this country, and so were some of his cronies. To make sure we don't give these wacko's the tools to do this again, we need to send back all students and people with visa's that live in countries that harbor terrorists (this includes the English and the Irish, and Isrealies)

Again, if you want to defeat terrorism, if it's [possible at all, you need to fight the war on a different level.

When we went to Vietnam, we did not fight a total war. Politics were involved limiting our recources and committment to our troops, resluting in an embarrassing loss. In WWII, we did everything we could to win the war at all costs (Detaining Japanese Americans, dropping atomic weapons on Japan, destroying Germany) We fought a total war, and pushed politics to the side. We won, handily, and protected our interests.

In the war we are fighting now, we need to change the way we fight. During the Revolutionary War, the British fought "the old way" marching troops in the middle of a field. We hid behind rocks and trees, creating a new way of warefare, and ultimately defeating the British because of the new tactic. Currently, The Islamic Jihadists (sp) are using new tactics against us, knowing that we are too political of a country to prevent them from doing what they are doing. We need to adapt, or we will be the redcoats.”

“And another thing....

I know many of you here do not agree with war. You can scream for limited attacks and so forth. This is the policy that got us what happened yesterday. We let Saddam Hussien go, look what he is doing. We need to eliminate these people, lock stock and barrel. It's time for the Hawks to make the decisions, not the Doves. Clinton tried more than any other president to make peace in the Middle east, it is impossible. When you have a large group of people that are willing to harm Americans at all costs, you must fight a total war to win, and defeat them. Diplomacy has not worked, limited strikes have not worked, limited prevention has not worked. As we wait to decide how to resolve the problem in a politically correct way, our enemies are able to gain access to weapons that will make them even more of a threat
The 93' WTC bombing and all those before it were using trucks.
In this bombing, they trained pilots, using flight software, upgrading the devestation.

What's next?: Chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, assassinations, etc.

They grow stronger with every victory, we must defeat them at all costs now, and turn a deaf ear to the doves in this country.”

“BTW - welcome back flyguy!”

“Quote from Bin Laden - "... Tell the Muslims everywhere that the vanguards of the warriors who are fighting the enemies of Islam belong to them and the young fighters are their sons. Tell them that the nation is bent on fighting the enemies of Islam. Once again, I have to stress the necessity of focusing on the Americans and the Jews for they represent the spearhead with which the members of our religion have been slaughtered. Any effort directed against America and the Jews yields positive and direct results - Allah willing. It is far better for anyone to kill a single American soldier than to squander his efforts on other activities. ..."

Now, who sounds like Hitler?”

“what made you choose that name, anyways?”

“If Buddha Bear isn't waiting for his Marine Corps recruiter when the door opens this morning he is a hypocritical p*ssy.”

“OK Buddha Bear, you sound a bit like Bin Laden.
And yes, he bears some resemblance to Hitler.”

“This is a disturbing thread. Lots of anger and name calling. Where's Tom T? We should be careful not to let our anger take away our humanity. I'll repeat my post from the other thread:

My first response was shock. My second response was anger (nuke the SH*THEELS).

If we learn to hate as much as those creatures do, then we have become bugs, as they are. The people who perpetrated this and the people who celebrate this, have already destroyed themselves and their humanity. They are already consigned to hell on earth through their hatred.

I would like to see a calmly rational approach to these bugs. We should be taking lessons from Mossad. This is the time to develop new strategies. I would like to see something like defective phones in the hands of these bugs. Ooops, his phone blew up right in his ear. What a tragic accident! We need to take years to infiltrate these groups and wipe them out before they can commit their crimes against humanity. Let us be careful not to hate groups as we kill individuals off.

More alternate energy sources! More efficient building design! We need to start making many changes. We cannot be complacent.”

“Buddha Boy-
You are wrong about Vietnam for one thing.
There was no sane reason or excuse for "total war" there.
The US Armed Forces committed HUGE recources and the "leaders" went along with a hopeless "cause" just to earn their stars.

lipostick-
I heard the same stupid sh!t...."so what if we're killing women and children in Vietnam......they're just going to grow up to be big communists and we'll have to kill them anyway".........when I was in high school from kids who thought the war was a good idea.....as long as THEY didn't have to go.”

“Solutions, Tom. It's good to think about solutions not stir up anger. Even if we won't be involved in the decision making, it helps all of us to think about rational solutions. Name calling and accusations don't add anything of value. My nephew will be deeply involved in this. I would certainly go if called. I believe that's true of most folks here.”

“Looks like I missed a lot of aggravation last night by deciding to stay away from the computer. Reading posts from two or three certain posters reminds me of the saying "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity".”

“I have to admit that its easier for me to get annoyed with the ignorance and hatred displayed here, than it is to get my mind around the monstrously depraved and disastrous display of ignorance, and hatred yesterday.

From their perspective, the Palestinians and the Moslem extremists who celebrated these bombings have real and palpable reasons to be angry at the West and at the US. This doesn't take away from the evil of what was done, or from the depravity of the ignorance and hatred involved in celebrating this disaster. There is no shortage of people who feel they have grievances that cry out for blood.

What should set us and most of those with grievances apart from the evil ones who did this is the way we act on these grievances.

The US stands for more than just a place on the map. It is not just the terrorism - but the reactions to it - that threatens the US.

I think both Tom and BacPac suggested that Buddha Bear ought to enlist in the military. I'm sure a lot of people will enlist over this, my hat is off to all of them.”

“I didn't intend to stir up anger.
I had to comment on the. "just kill 'em all" nonsense.
"That woman" must be a real joy to live with.......as long as things are goin' her way, I reckon.

The Buddha Bear(sorry Boy!) throws out the "simple-minded, sure-thinker's" line quite a lot.
He seems to be quoting Rambo....."they wouldn't let us fight!" or Little Chucky Norris in regards to Vietnam.

Solutions???
Get the hell out of the way of the trained professionals and let them do their jobs.
Wether its investigators, intelligence personel, or trained killers, trust them to do treir best and leave the second-guessing to the whiners and chicken-hawks.”

“"...we must defeat them at all costs now, and turn a deaf ear to the doves in this country.

Expell any middle eastern students or people with visa's in the US.

Stop supporting businesses owned by people of middle eastern background in this country.

Institute "special" search procedures for people of middle eastern decent."

"Now, who sounds like Hitler?"
Buddha Bear

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...”

“Well Pedxing, I think your way of thinking is stupid, so I guess we got nowhere, except pointing fingers and name calling. Tarabull, whom I've met, simply stated she disagreed with me, I respect that. She respects my freedom of speech, even though she disagrees with some of the solutions I've protrayed. I guess that makes her a bigger person than all of us.

As for the Muslims having real palpable reasons for hating us, as Pedxing suggested - who cares, they just bobmed us, allegedly. And if the people protesting had nothing to do with this, you can bet you sweet a$$ that they would do the same thing if they could. Until yesterday, I had some sympathy for Palestinians, knowing that their land was stripped from them to create Isreal. I have none now, and could care less if they live or die. They are our enemies now. How are we supposed to react to this Ped? Are we supposed to sit back, let Afghanastan and Yassir Arafat and Syria tell us how horrified they are, only to turn around and fund and train terrorists. OK Ped, that's worked before..... right. Your way of thinking, in my opinion is what made our country vaulnerable in the first place, and hopefully the decision makers in our country will turn a deaf ear to arguements such as yours and bomb the heck out of the terrorists in the aforementioned countries.”

“geez, at least ped IS thinking...”

“Gear Slut..

When we listen to doves, we loose. We have listened to "doves" the past 10 years, and now look what we have.

Expell the middle eastern people of countries that support or harbor terrorist groups (see my many examples of us giving Bin Laden the tools to do what he did) I don't want our education system educating terrorists.

I am sure many of the people who are of middle eastern decent in this country are good people and proud Americans. I am also sure that 10-20% support the views of Bin Laden and terrorists both monitarily and with information. After what happened yesterday, I'm not taking any chances.

Don't you think "special" search procudures are going to happen anyway. Think about it GearSlut, if you were a security person at the airport, don't you think you'll spend a little more time on Arab looking people? At least it will be in the open if we institute procedures.

BTW - I think if you actually look up events in history, you'll see that FDR did some of the very things you are calling "Hitlerisitic".”

“?Our growth as a nation has been achieved, in large measure, through the genius and industry of immigrants of every race and from every quarter of the world. The story of their pursuit of happiness is the saga of America. Their brains and their brawn helped to settle our land, to advance our agriculture, to build our industries, to develop our commerce, to produce new inventions and, in general, to make us the leading nation that we now are.?


- Commission on Immigration and Naturalization, 1953”

“I agree switchback. However, in 1953, religious fanatics weren't hurling passanger jets into buildings in the name of Allah.”

“I don't believe it's a situational statement. It simply is the way it is.”

“FDR also proposed social security.”

“FDR also proposed social security.”

“Oh, pedxing, I owe you an apology, please disreard your name in the last three above posts, those were meant for Kleety. Yes, Ped is thinking about what is behind the bombings Rad. The reasons why we are hated by Muslims cannot be fixed diplomatically.”