The Next Chapter: War

“I work up here in the NY area for MSNBC. Needless to say, work has been absolutely nuts, not to mention the area itself up here. Seeing the trade towers from our parking lot was unimaginable. Covering this story has been unimaginable. Writing the stories, editing the video, I still shake at times.. we all do.

It's obvious an American retaliation is next. Pentagon officials say it will last for years.

No rest until Bin Ladin is found.. and punished in the worst way possible.

It may be a long ride ahead, but I pray that it's short.”

“Which Pentagon officials?

Now is not the time for wild speculation. Name one source.”

“Artex, welcome back. i've missed you. If you can in a few weeks when the news cools down can you try and get on AOL IM so we can talk.”

“Bacpac.. in situations like this it is very common for Pentagon officials to give comments anonymously. MSNBC and CNN have both reported it. Several members of Congress have made similar comments also.
With all due respect, Read up and watch the news.

Ice Tea! Good to hear from you. I changed my AIM name, drop me an e-mail at artex_ny@yahoo.com and I'll give it to you.”

“Which members of Congress?”

“Bacpac, check out the below to get yourself started. If you still think a long war and if you still think a long war is wild speculation.. well, I don't know what to tell you.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010913/us/attacks_eagleburger_1.html

http://www.msnbc.com/local/kuam/m91090.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/news/627028.asp?0si

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010913/us/terrorism_attacks_85.html”

“P.S. Give me a break, I've been working 16 hour days. I don't need the conspiracy like questions. Watch and read the news for yourself. (meant with humor)”

“Well I checked two of the links and it was as I expected.

Nothing.

The media is out to sell a story. Now that we are growing tired of the same story, new ones are invented. The media is just a bunch of whores and you are just a John.”

“Nothing? Are you an American? Your ignorance is astounding. Get a life.

Media out to sell a story? NOT ONE NEWS NETWORK HAS AIRED ONE SINGLE COMMERICAL SINCE THIS HAS STARTED. THAT'S A FACT, YOU A-HOLE.

As an American, I am extrememly disapointed in your views. Get a life loser.”

“Some americans (and it's obvious who) want to tear down and destroy societal institutions. They're on the level of the terrorists, at least in terms of mental framework.”

“Bacpac,

Furthermore, come up here to New York and talk like that. The media has the full support up here, without people knowing about what is happening, they wouldn't know to give money to the redcross, or even come over here and help out. The media has helped reunite people with their families, people lost, trapped in the rubble.

It's pathetic pieces of sh&^ like yourself that sit on their butts and don't do anything but knock the media that are DISGUSTING.

If your trying to just get a rise out of me, well you've done it. You make me sick. Come over here to New York and express those views after you've seen the mess for yourself. Open your eyes to the world, you loser.”

“bacpac just got JACKED UP! Jebus Jumpin Cripes! I'm glad I wasn't on the receiving end of that!”

“Do you have sources for that Artex?”

“is that the best you could come up with? why bother?”

“I am not trying to get a rise out of you. It is irresponsible to start unsubstantiated rumors.”

“even so, it seems buddha bear is a much more interesting bitter old fool than you are.

Ha! beaten at your own game. How pathetic”

“I checked the links and there was nothing there. It is pure speculation. Get pissed. Attack me. I don't care. Your sources are sh!t and you know it.”

“Yes, Bacpac, as a matter of fact I do: Your mom.

I meant for this thread to see how others thought about the inevitable war that's about to happen. Bacpac is seemingly jealous of me for whatever reason, hence the hard time. His mother and I had a long discussion about him in bed last night, and about his odd problem with his peanut-sized testicles. She agreed that her own son was about as "sharp as a ball", before she started to.. well, let's not talk about that, and let's not talk about all the other conspiracies the media is hyping up either.”

“you're a coward, bacpac.

you refuse to rebut. any argument thrown back at you, you dodge by attacking the credibility of the source or nitpicking at meaningless details.

you've lost what little skill you had at trolling, bacpac. time to pack up.”

“"The media is responsible."

I can't believe you played that angle. They serve a purpose, but so do whores.”

“My mother is dead, but I wouldn't expect that would prevent you from using her as a source.”

“I think the links I provided spell out "War" quite clearly, sorry you can't see it bacpac (your mom could, by the way).

Here's some more from http://www.msnbc.com/news/627028_asp.htm :

U.S. GOVERNMENT SOURCES told NBC News? Jim Miklaszewski and Norah O?Donnell on Thursday evening that based on ?overwhelming? evidence, the Bush administration had concluded that the al-Qaeda organization run by bin Laden had executed the breathtaking operation in which U.S. jetliners were hijacked and flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
O?Donnell reported that a sustained military attack on bin Laden, the exiled Saudi millionaire who has vowed to destroy the United States, would likely include air, land and sea forces. Two aircraft carriers are in the Arabian Peninsula region, each carrying 75 bombers capable of launching long-range missiles.

Bacpac, would you like some salt with your foot? Speaking of feet, tell your mom thanks for doing that number on my toes.”

“And I agree with Mutt, I expected just a little bit more of a fight with someone with such worldly, jaded knowledge like yourself Bacpac.. You're sooooooooo smart and stuff. It's like, scary dude.”

“Mom says, "Hey:-)"”

“Tell you what Bacpac, when we bomb Bin Ladin and avenge the deaths of innocent Americans, you can send me a hundred bucks and we'll call it a day...

Hey, I just had a great idea, I can use the money to pay back the money I owe to your mom! Sweet!”

“"We bomb?"

I got $1000.00 that says U are not part of we.

You are pathetic.”

“So MSNBC is using my dead mother as a source.

Who is surprised?”

“It's always an unknown source or he said, she said. When they aren't making stuff up, they're putting thier own spin on things. bacpac is right. I believe our media reports rumors as fact without bothering to substantiate anymore.

The old days of honor in reporting the facts and just the facts are gone. Now all we have is an news reporting based on the Inquirer's style. If you want good news, look for publications and stations which are local and smaller.”

“I heard Heather Wilson, (R)NM say it was not a matter of if, but when and who. It was either on NPR or local AM news radio.

She also said that Congress would find out when it had already been launched.”

“"Pentagon officials say it will last for years."

Does anyone believe the Pentagon leaked this?”

“Okay, okay, you guys are right. The media actually has this large pinwheel they spin with various, random facts on it. There's actually not going to be a war, we're going to have a picnic with Bin Laden.

Ignorance sure is bliss, isn't it?”

“War talk can be a satisfying release under the pressure we now face. Everyone can plainly see why people are quick to talk of bombing, as if we know exactly who is the mastermind of this despicable act.
However, as of this moment, the US government has not pin-pointed the guilty parties. So, I agree Artex, those articles speak of war and retaliation, but they don't inform. One could wonder if their purpose is to foment a particular feeling among the American people.
As hard as it is, we need to act with reason and sureness.”

“Agreed Dunadan, the long term solution will take careful planning and consideration. But that is strategy. We have a tactical problem. Somebody is after us now, we must defend ourselves and proactively disable those activities that are of immediate threat. I suspect we may see some of that sooner than later. The cleansing operation is down the road.

Much of the military bluster and leaks may also be a way of nudging some of the harbor countries towards giving up the terrorists, but it is worthless if we are not prepared to back it up.”

“For the record...I did see and hear what Artex is referring to on the news today.

First I heard newsmen cite pentagon officials as saying this operation could take years.

Second, I did watch a congressman say that we must be prepared to possible fight for years. I watched both Graham and Gepheart talk on this matter and I can't say I remember which said it because I was working at the time. But I did hear one of these two say that.

Third, I suppose that all of us heard the President himself say that this "war" would be the focus of his administration. Considering that he has over three years left I think we can agree that Bush himself thinks this could take at least a couple of years.

Perhaps these were just leaks to pressure other countries or to test public opinion. But that the statements were made by congressmen is a fact. I saw it. Don't figure it isn't true because you didn't see it.

I'm not a media fan. I often don't believe what the media tells me. I also am sure that most of what the media concerns itself with is out of step with mainstream America.

BUT I must honestly say that I have been nothing but impressed at the media's handling of this event. No commercials. Who is paying for all of this? They are just working to keep us informed. Yes, there has been speculation. But the news people have been quick to back up and correct themselves and say they were wrong. Then they usually caution against rumors.”

“The war against Iraq was a failure to eliminate Saddam and is still ongoing. Reports in the media say Saddam may ultimately be behind some of the funding to Bin Laden. Thank you, George Bush for that successful war. The war on drugs... still ongoing and how effective?”

“Upon hearing the news of the WTC attack, my very first thought was "That's an act of war as sure as if they had bombed NYC." Then my heart sank and I KNEW we were going to go to war with SOMEBODY over this. This news, confirmed or not, surely cannot be a surprise to anyone. You've read all the backlash on TT. The natural reaction is to lash out, strike back. Our leaders are no different from the rest of us.”

“Hey, just thought I'd post here so more people can take some unsubstantiated shots at me.”

“hey, get to work ya bum!”

“Bacpac, do you really think the fact that this will be a long, drawn out affair NEEDS substantiation? Doesn't past experience tell you that a surgical strike with a couple cruise missles isn't gonna do the trick? That's not wild speculation or rumor, it seems like the inevitable truth.”

“Anyone watching the moon?

I remember a co-worker telling me the Desert Storm attack would not be launched until there was no moon.

The moon is waning....

Hey Buddha Bear, Yo mamma!”

“The links substantiated exactly what Artex said... that there was a lot of talk about being ready for a sustained war. What we make of this talk is still a question.

Its obvious to me that if we are going to initiate military conflict we need to be prepared for something long term. Just because our leaders are preparing us for a long term war doesn't mean they expect one.

If we go after Iraq, for example, we would be foolish to just "punish" them. If we hit them hard enough to hurt them, we will only motivate people to seek revenge. If it turns out that Saddam Hussein supported this terrorism, I think our leaders will decide that he needs to be overthrown and, if he is still alive, brought into custody. This could necessitate an occupation and long term fight against resistance.

As much as I abhor war, as much as I think there has been too much US military intervention around the world, if Hussein backed this, I can't now see an alternative to taking him and his regime out. I hope our nation can come up with a better alternative, but there may not be one.

So, I think it wise and natural that there is talk about long term conflict. There is no point in trading tit for tat with Hussein if it means blows are landed with this kind of impact.”

“The links substantiated exactly what Artex said... that there was a lot of talk about being ready for a sustained war. What we make of this talk is still a question.

Its obvious to me that if we are going to initiate military conflict we need to be prepared for something long term. Just because our leaders are preparing us for a long term war doesn't mean they expect one.

If we go after Iraq, for example, we would be foolish to just "punish" them. If we hit them hard enough to hurt them, we will only motivate people to seek revenge. If it turns out that Saddam Hussein supported this terrorism, I think our leaders will decide that he needs to be overthrown and, if he is still alive, brought into custody. This could necessitate an occupation and long term fight against resistance.

As much as I abhor war, as much as I think there has been too much US military intervention around the world, if Hussein backed this, I can't now see an alternative to taking him and his regime out. I hope our nation can come up with a better alternative, but there may not be one.

So, I think it wise and natural that there is talk about long term conflict. There is no point in trading tit for tat with Hussein if it means blows are landed with this kind of impact.”

“BTW:

BREAKING NEWS from CNN.com

-- Senate approves use of force by 98-0 vote. --”

“Not that I don't agree about us eventually going to war, but there has been a lot of false stories being told by the press. Such as the 5 firefighters trapped in a SUV found alive, the cell phone call from a NY police officer trapped w/ 4 other police and 5 port athority works, all lies. Did anyone else hear the mayor and gov. of NY bashing the press this morning for telling lies and getting peoples hopes up only to be let down because the stories aren't true?! Yes, the media is sharing info, but the mentality to get the story out first is still there and the media isn't checking their sources as well as they should before the open their mouths.”

“kleety, you are speculating. To which past experience are you refering?”

“And there have been NO arrests!”

“Sorry for the double post:

It seems to me that the media performance has been a pretty mixed bag.”

“How dare we suggest that we WON'T go to war? How many lives have to die? No one WANTS to see us go into an extended engagement, but NO WAY can we ignore it. It's just a question of when, and aimed at who.

My biggest fear is what happens next. The events yesterday clearly show that the terrorists have much more in mind than a couple tall towers, and five-sided building and a big private jet.

Even if we DID make a parking lot out of Afghanistan, there are numerous terrorists all over the world who by our acts will be even MORE inflamed at the USA.

WWIII? It is not incomprehensible. END OF TIME? It is not incomprehensible. I am not a vigilante, but I refuse to think that we CANNOT act, can not somehow remove those who find the destruction of those entities around them that they don't agree with to be acceptable.

It is my hope that all countries that believe that freedom and the pursuit of such is a precious gift, and most not be denied. This is not America going to war, but rather the forces of good waging war upon the forces of evil.

(hehe.. cue the soundtrack)”

“I have read in the print media that the 4 major broadcast networks are foregoing $40 million dollars A DAY in advertising revenue by running non-stop news (as historic and tragic as these events are, I think the non-stop news is a little bit over the top).

I can't help but wonder if military force is going to be the most effective way for us to demonstrate our resolve, but unfortunately it might be the only thing that the terrorists will understand.

If our armed forces combat terrorists and the states that support them for the next 2 to 5 years, I guess we will learn first hand what we need to do to update them for the realities of the 21st century, huh?”

“On the plus side of non-stop news coverage, no soaps, no Judge Judy et al, no Jerry Spring et al, etc.

But you are so right, wsexson, we will be getting some very real world experience in devising new military tactics and tools.”