I'm a fair weather Patriot

“B Bear-
The difference between us is that I can see both sides of this thing.

You're employing "simple-minded sure-thinking".

Maybe its diffficult for you to grasp, but there is/was no shame in either serving in that mess or in protesting it.

OUR government lied, cheated, stole, and was responsible for many deaths.

The French were even more brazen in their involvement.....and the U.S. supported their effort.

We/they did not want to give up the plantations.
Communism was the excuse for going to war to preserve colonialism.”

“Eagle eat carrion/road kill.
Turkeys are vegetarians......mo' betta' tasty!”

“Pass the cranberry sauce Tom.”

“Hooooah! bacpac”

“I hafta say that I am way closer to BacPac than to Mutt on this one.

As much as I appreciate most of what Sunny said, I think she misunderstood what BacPac was saying (I think Buddha Bear may have too).

The past couple days, I haven't found much to argue with BacPac about. I'm sure we'll have plenty to disagree about in the future, but in case of this post - the message was on target.”

“If I was official score keeper, I'd give points to Gear Slut for recognizing the integrity of a point of view he disagrees with.

As for Mutt: when you said:

"it's pretty damn well obvious bacpac's a rabble-rouser and likes to troll for emotional tirades. But he's not very subtle, which ruins the effect."

it is a clear case of someone talking about themself while seeming to talk about BacPac. Mutt's lack of subtlty ruins the effect.”

“I too can appreciate what bacpac stated.
(Slapping myself....agreeing with that no-good varmint, doh!)

I think George Washington had something to say about the "Sunshine Soldier and Fair Weather Patriot" though, really.
And again, it was the Winter Soldier who stayed through thick and thin.

Stormy weather does seem like a good time to rally 'round the flag.
But PLEASE don't fly your flag in the rain!
The recruiter dude, Spam(?) should be knowledgable about that.”

“Sunshine, I also wonder why so many people do not have much interest in or knowledge about other cultures. In situations such as this one it can be very useful to try and understand another culture. This statement was only in reference to that one part of what Sunshine had to say, I am not expressing any opinion either way on bacpac's original post. (Just thought I'd add that little disclaimer, 'cause the debate over the other topic is gettin' nasty.)”

“I think this is the 'best thread ever' on here. I can't begin to post all the thoughts you guys brought to mind.”

“Other cultures? Geez most people don't even care to know the history of this culture.”

“Dawg-
Don't strain your brain.”

“Tom: lol.. not much here.. too many years of abuse.”

“"Doing your civic duty (jury duty, voting, military service when necessary) is an OBLIGATION not just a right. The rights we enjoy must also be paid for.

I could be wrong but I think those who didn't vote and get out of jury duty haven't changed since Tuesday. So, who is bacpac referring to if not those who *visibly* show patriotism. I think perhaps you misunderstand. Knowing bacpac only from his posts, I would venture that if these people who suddenly became patriotic, did not, he would be on them for that. With BP, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.”

“I can't even believe some of the posts here. You're right, bacpac you have to defend all US citizens no matter how pathetic they may be.

Bacpac,Leatherneck, I don't know about toe to toe, but I'd be damn proud to stand side by side with you both.”

“arclite, bacpac, leatherneck: I am almost afraid to post because I was the 'wrong age' every time any sort of conflict broke out. (Strongly considered going OCS up until I was too old.)

One thing I realize. America is way too precious to me not to be willing to fight. You guys make me proud, and I envy you.”

“That's what counts TownDawg, the will to fight if needed.

Thanks to both you and arclite.”

“Even when a war is or has been unpopular, our people who have served or are serving in our armed forces deserve our gratitude. If we can't serve ourselves in this capacity, at least we can be supportive of those that do.”

“I had a roommate and good friend who served in Vietnam. When he came back he joined Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He is still a very patriotic person, and he believes that Americans are duty-bound to speak out against injustice.
I opposed the Vietnam police action. My highschool class was the last to have lottery mumbers drawn. I was lucky to avoid having to go. When the Vietnam war was over, I enlisted.
People can show their patriotism in different ways. To take an unthinking hard line on anything has nothing to do with serving your country.
Sign up yet, BB?”

“Amen, Gear Slut. We should be honor anyone who has made the sacrifice of serving in our military. Even though they are paid for their service, it is miniscule compared to what they have done for us.”

“Terrorism has hit these shores, and I for one am ready to put my foot down and say enough is enough! I don't care if I become a target for terror as a result of my courageous stance. I think this is the time for action, not silence! So I've put an American flag on my car, one on my mailbox, and one on my dog. Take that, Osama Ben Loden!”

“bacpac, you're NOT a "fair weather" patriot. "fair weather" means to be loyal during times of success or when it is convenient for someone to be loyal. you're an "all weather" patriot.”

“Speaking of CRAPPY weather patriots . .. did anyone else catch the game vs. Oakland the other night?????

Holy Cow . .that was a football in conditions it was MEANT to be played in!!!!!!

Bunch of fairweather sissies down south. Football should always be played in mud or snow.”

“examples of why wars should be waged by the military not by politicians. I'm glad much of the country now feels they are a part of the world, even if I abhor the events that caused it. I hope as a nation we can stop fighting over history, and that everyday we can be thankful of what we have. Please participate in America, vote, volunteer, do your jury service, fly your flags respectfully (don't leave them flying on your car to get destroyed), communicate your opinion, and be open to other opinions.

God (or whoever will make you feel better) Bless America and the rest of Our World.”

“HEY!!! We're talking football here!!

PATRIOTS FOOTBALL.

Bunch o' pussie weinies talking about the g.d. flag and g.d. terrorists.

They played the g.d. game in the g.d. snow!!

Get your flag waving, gun totin' pimply ass off your g.d. barcolounger and lemme see YOU play a g.d. football game in the g.d. snow!!”

“I have a Stratolounger! I'm totally glad the Pats beat the Traitors! and it was awesome to watch the poor b*stards skating around in the snow!”

“Please forgive me donman . . .stratoloungers rule!”

“I've noticed that more flags are already disappearing from houses and cars. The difference between me and most people is that I was flying the flag 24-7-365 on 9-10 and I still will be when al this is over.Good job BACPAC”

“I fashioned mud flaps for my pickem'up truck from those small flags. Looks good and keeps 'Big Red' clean too!”

“If we let them steal our flags, then the terrorists will have won! I laugh in your face, Orsuma Bon Lidle!”

“lee, I don't think it amtters weather it's stealers or pats, nobody has anything for the rams.”

“I have never voted
I have never served on jury duty
I obey our laws (except the speed limit)
I never served in the military
but.........
I love my country and always have.
!!!!!!ROCK ON!!!!!!!!

Walkindude”

“It also doesn't MATTER too. LOL!”

“Tempestt Bledsoe, formerly of the Cosby Show (and brother of smoking-hot New England Patriots quarterback Drew Bledsoe), Oprah Winfrey, Larry King and Phil Donahue all have their own talk shows! Is it me, or can just about anyone get a talk show these days?”

“Militiaboy, It is not what you know, it is who you blow. Just ask Monica Lewinski. Her talk show opend this week.”

“A true patriot questions authority.”

“I am a Steeler...... and we're gonna whomp you Patriots. LOL”

“I question your authority to make such a claim, thinair!”

“Author Salmon Rushdy has come out of hiding to show those no-goodnik fanatics he won't be pushed around. Bully for him! As a risk-taking journalist, I know what it's like to stir up the muck occasionally. I stand in solidarity with Mr. Rushdy. If you want him, you're going to have to get through me first! God Bless America!”

“I guess I'm supposed to make some claim about the American Eagle and how a patriotic person should revere the eagle. Let me remind you all that the Eagles are still in it this year.
You know, a good American would be an Eagles fan.”

“I thought a good American would be a Rangers fan.”

“This is Fair and Balanced - just like Faux News!!

Prominent Democrats
Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72
Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon.
Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea
Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953.
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.


Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.
Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit.
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V."
Democrats
Gray Davis, California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.
Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam
Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star
George McGovern, famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII.
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force

Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy.
Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953
Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea; extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters.


Prominent Republicans
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve.
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve.
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.


GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
VP Cheney - several deferments, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve ; received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State

Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.


Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve , too busy being a Republican.

Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments

George Will, did not serve
Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly, did not serve
Paul Gigot, did not serve.
Bill Bennett, Did not serve
Pat Buchanan, did not serve
Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' [see "The Rush Limbaugh Story" by Paul D. Colford, St. Martin's Press, 1993, Chapter 2: Beating the Draft.])

Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer."
Bill Kristol, did not serve
Kenneth Starr, did not serve
Ralph Reed, did not serve

Ted Nugent, did not serve

Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve

Richard Perle, did not serve
Rudy Giuliani, did not serve Michael Bloomberg, did not serve Spencer Abraham, did not serve
John Engler, did not serve
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition”

“hi, alaska”