I'm a fair weather Patriot

“I am a fair weather Patriot. I fly the flag. When the economy is booming and freedom flows like water I still pray for my country and its ideals. I vote. I serve on jury duty. I obey our laws. I served in the military, as my father, my grandfathers, and my son. I love my country and always have.

It saddens me that so many people are stormy weather Patriots. Only when disaster strikes do they rally round the flag. Of course they have to buy or borrow a flag, because they don't actually own one. They talk of vengeance, retribution, and nuclear solutions. Few of these folks would stand toe to toe with anyone in a real fight. Like so many spoiled children with no real sense of honor, duty, or sacrifice they demand immediate solutions. They assume it is their right to wield the power of our military as if it were their personal police force.

I have read most of the comments on TT and endured the local call-in shows ad nauseum. I can not take much more. If you are a Patriot I hope you remain one who treats liberty as a personal obligation and not a personal right.”

“thank you bacpac. that is what wanted to say.”

“Very well said bacpac.”

“Ditto bacpac. You can bet on one sure thing, this ol' jarhead will stand toe to toe with anyone and defend this great Nation! I've taken a rifle and went into harms way before and I'd do it again in a heart beat.”

“Semper Fidelis.”

“bacpac's never had so much material to work with.

what i hate are the vultures who feed off the carnage of the tragedy for personal gain (in this case, entertainment).

Once again every thinking person who has made the mistake of reading this thread is going to leave with a sense of pity and disgust.”

“Your last post just gave me goose bumps bacpac. Semper Fi!!”

“Please explain your position Mutt.”

“heavy”

“oh good, Mutt's back. TIC”

“I thought you said you were leaving”

“Heavy? Do tell Mutt, have you ever served your country?”

“"bacpac's never had so much material to work with.

what i hate are the vultures who feed off the carnage of the tragedy for personal gain (in this case, entertainment).

Once again every thinking person who has made the mistake of reading this thread is going to leave with a sense of pity and disgust."

This is rare BUT I agree with Mutt. Bacpac, I hope you walked away from your post patting yourself on the back because I'm not. Often, people are changed for the better from tragedy. Others are changed for the worse.

I've often said that I'm glad there are people willing to fight for our country because I couldn't go out there and do it. I realized this week that I could.

I realized that when I said I couldn't what I was really saying is that I'm glad we have young enlisted people willing to fight when I'm not willing to. I'll fight for what I believe in but not what a bunch of politicians and diplomats decide we should *police*.

I am AMAZED at posts from people wondering "Why do they hate us?" People I'm not up on foreign affairs. I ocassionaly read a paper and rarely watch the news yet I know why they hate us. It's like a soap opera. It's been going on for years. The actors and characters change but the plot remains the same. You can ignore it for six months and catch up in a matter of days.

It saddens me that people are so unaware of how people live in other countries.”

“So are you all saying that bacpac's entertained by this tragedy?”

“No.”

“no, Joy, I'm saying bacpac has some distant, fuzzy memory of when he was a marine (before he was dishonorably discharged for cowardice), and these current events give him a chance to lash out and try to hurt others in an attempt to assuage his own personal pain and anguish.”

“What am I missing in bacpac's thread? If it stings ya maybe it's because the shoe fits.”

“mutt, it was much nicer around here when you got mad and left.”

“imo”

“Leatherneck, The downside of liberty is that you have to defend Mutt too.”

“How right you are bacpac!!”

“I still get goosebumps when they play the national anthem. I place my hand over my heart when many do not. Still, I do not belittle others for coming together when our country needs unity and strength. Perhaps, they are just as Patriotic as you are but they do not show it in the manner that you do. Or perhaps they, like most of us, get caught up in the day to day doings in our lives that we forget to take time to remember why we are so fortunate. Hense, Memorial Day. Why take this time to pat yourself on the back for ALWAYS being such great Patriots and embrace those who want to stand up for their belief in a great country.”

“baume, I missed you too! There's nothing like Trail Talk for quenching a thirst for foolish and self important "discourse" (if you can call it that). I can assure you I'll pop up now and then.”

“leatherneck, didn't mean to ignore you. Professionally, I add value to the U.S. economy, so yes, I have served my country quite handily.

Also: it's pretty damn well obvious bacpac's a rabble-rouser and likes to troll for emotional tirades. But he's not very subtle, which ruins the effect.”

“plus there's the whole thing about him being not very bright and rather uninformed which also detracts from his ability to look like anything other than a fool.”

“They say a man is measured by his enemies.

I feel so inadequate.”

“bacpac, the shoe fits me. i'm not proud of it, though.”

“bacpac is right. He may be a cantankerous old fart at times but I see wisdom in what he's said and have seen that he believes it. He is by no means trolling or being a hypocrite.

I can't believe I just defended a person I usually dissagree with! I'm now going to go and slap myself upside the head.”

“I think you have to remember, we may all be Patriots, but we are different. Don't mistake bluster for true patriotism, and don't mistake quiet resolve for weakness. There are enough tests of our patriotism ahead, I am certain some we can't even imagine at this time.”

“BP, I think you should be glad like I, that America is one. We all are the United States now, and we are more patriotic the ever before. I hope you are not discuriging people that want to be patriotic. The way I see it is something has to happen in your life where you relize that you wouln't have gotten any better in another country.”

“Pathman, I remember. We are not all Patriots. Some of us are self centered spoiled brats who suck the tit of liberty. I got your pacifier right here.”

“I'm not sure I follow you there BP, I'll take the liberty and pass on the binkie, thanks.”

“It is good to remember in the midst of this tragedy that we should also exercise our liberty and take responsibility as citizens each and every day. Thankyou for that post, pacman.”

“If you need help slapping yourself upside the head, I'm first in line Gear Slut (that was a joke, calm down)

Remember, our vets out there.... who were the people spitting on you after Vietnam, calling you baby killers when you were only doing your duty. It was people that would never put themselves in your own shoes because they were cowards and hid behind their so called political beliefs in order to avaiod doing what it takes. Our vets did what it takes, and sacrificed more than most of us, hats off, and thank you.”

“You enlist yet BB? Until you do, you're nothing but hot air.”

“I can see where bacpac is coming from. I don't see why he's getting hammered for saying it.

You can bet your a$$ in China there are a million factories tooling up to make little flags and patriotic trinkets for us to buy. How long before we see window stickers of Calvin peeing on bin laden? Remember the "bomb Iran" bumper stickers?

Not that there is anything wrong with displaying a flag or bumper sticker, but the profiteers, as always, are somewhat nauseating.

I found some of the congressional speeches a little over the top. Some of these guys are obviously using this disaster to boost their images.

At any rate we're all imperfect humans, we all react in our own fashion, and most important we're all in this together. I think a little tolerance of each others emotions is warranted.”

“hey, slut, why don't YOU enlist?

until then, shut your trap!”

“Sorry, I'm too old now.”

“I think you've got this "Fair Weather Patriot" thing azz-backwards.

At the time of the American
Revolution it was the Summer Soldiers who bugged out and went home when the weather got tough.

The Winter Soldiers hung tough with George Washington and stuck it out through the winter.
They crossed the Delaware River and whooped up on the Hessian mercenaries at Trenton, NJ.

Buddha Bear-
You're talking revisionist history here.
Some of the boys who "served" in Vietnam WERE baby-killers.
How did we know this?
Because of the boys who returned and had guts enough to tell us about it.

There was an organization among Vietnam Veterans Against the War(VVAW) who had what they called the Winter Soldier Investigation.
THese veterans could have stayed home and tried to forget but instead hung tough and told the truth about what was really going on over there.

They didn't want to see any more of their brothers have to go through what they went through.
This while our lying government tried to sell the war as a noble cause, which it wasn't.

Try reading some history of that part of the world going back 1,000 years, not just adventure novels about guts and glory.

Patriotism is fine but, like talk, can be pretty cheap.
Any fool can wrap hisself in the flag.”

“That was terriffic Tom. I actually have a B.A. in History, and studied the Vietnam War. Yes, many of the men were baby killers. My uncle, who was a river rat, had to kill a young teenager who was throwing grenades at his boat during a confrontation. Does that make him wrong? It's war, some people can't stomach it. Regardless of why we were fighting, we were at war. We HAD to kill women and children, because they were killing us. You have to take "politics" out of the equation when discussing this, because it was a kill or be killed situation for the most part. Women and children were being killed in every war ever fought by anyone, yet we had people who didn't agree with the politics of the war spitting on our soldiers and calling them baby killers. The people who committed those acts on our soldiers are cowards, and probably the ones that scrambled to Canada as soon as they could. I have no respect for them. My dad had to go over there, and fight, who are they to spit on him. Fu!k those people, they are lower than dirt in my book.”

“......Summer Soldier and Fair Weather Patriot.......same thing”

“bacpac is the most misunderstood and maligned poster on this site.

I understand what you mean and agree. BP is not discouraging people from being partiotic.

Doing your civic duty (jury duty, voting, military service when necessary) is an OBLIGATION not just a right. The rights we enjoy must also be paid for.

The price of freedom is blood, always has been and perhaps always will be. Disagree? Then name a time when freedom was gained without it. Any time a group trys to gain freedom from oppression members of that group make the ultimate sacrific. American revolution, French resistance, the holocaust,
Apartheid, Civil rights in America, Labor unions the list is very long.

Disagreement does not equal a lack of patriotism and cynicism is a luxury of peacetime.”

“Right on HPM, even Ghandi had to shed blood to gain freedom for India, albeit his own blood without fighting, he still shed it.”

“Much the same I abhorr killing and bloodshed and will do almost anything to prevent us getting to that point.

I just don't see how we can prevent it now.”

“The "spitters" were a vocal minority.
The vast majority of protesters were legitimate and ordinary citizens, not traitors.
That is our right and duty as Americans to call the government's hand when they are playing dirty.

There is no shame in having served in that conflict.
But Just because YOUR daddy served over there doesn't change the facts.

If you studied that history how can you make excuses for the killing of civilians?

An estimated 1,000,000+ civilians were killed, mostly by indiscriminate bombardment.

Sure, a lot of civilians threw away their lives attacking American troops.
They gave their lives for their country and our guys were put in the awful position of having to defend themselves against that kind of thing.

That's over now thanks in part to good American citizens who stood against our corrupt government and its misuse of OUR armed forces.

You just sound so ignorant with all this talk about "cowards" running to Canada.
Did you ever stop to think that it took courage to follow one's conscience and leave the country to avoid participation in an unjust war?”

“So now you will spin cowardice into courage. Now I've seen it all. It takes courage to fight for something you may not believe in because your countrymen need you.”

“When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber.”

“You can't fly with Eagles if you hang out with turkeys.”

“Last post not in reference to anyone here.”

“Bud-Bear, would you say it took courage to hijack planes and crash them into buildings? (I'm talking about the actual guys on the plane.)

Would you say it took courage to be a guard at a Auswitz?

Would you say Cassius Clay was courageous to go to jail rather than the army?”