Life Goes On

“I wonder if we are standing too much on the side of caution.

There are 15 hour waits to get into the U.S. at the Detroit border crossings - BTW, why is it so much quicker to leave the country?

All the sporting events - good stress relievers - are cancelled.

And the Congress gets evacuated every day now.

Life in a free society involves some risk. Do we not let the terrorists win by allowing their actions to control our lives?”

“Things are finally calming down around here.

I have an interview for a new job next week! I'm over qualified so wish me luck. Of course, around here, people are often over qualified for their jobs because they chose where they wanted to live over the job market. So, I'm more likely to get a job I'm over qualified for here than elsewhere.”

“I am not a histrionic person. My Dad designed and helped develope much of the weaponry that will be used. He just buried his best friend who disappeared over Laos in 1967 in Arlington. He worked in the Pentagon. I saw Viet Nam through the eyes of a technologic warrier. I have not seen war, but I have seen the tools of war, up close. I have never beaten the war drum, but served my country in my best capacity during the Gulf War. I don't reel this is all that important except to substantiate that I am not an alarmist.

The people that carried this out won't rest now. Why would they? And what do they have at their disposal? Bio, chemical, nukes? Who knows. They have demonstrated what the are willing to do. The only hope I see of avoiding war is the states that harbor them turning them over, much like Milosevic and his people.

It's hunker down, protect, investigate plan and execute until successful-or else.

Life goes on, but as we have heard from our leaders, it is not business as usual. We have a new form of warfare to defeat.”

“Why the wait? Because the US political system would rather spend billions of dollars on weapons designed to fight bygone wars instead of spending more for border agents. Wouldn't it be nice if we had politicians who had the guts to spend money responsibly. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have patriots working at the FBI instead of bumbling fools and spies.
Don't blame "the terrorists", rather blame your government for failure to do it's responsible job of protecting you.

To borrow: "Do we not let the politicians win by allowing their actions to control our lives?”

“Life goes on... Well, I guess so. I just had to send Mel a note telling her I will not make it for the llama trip because of the airlines. Perhaps it is just as well, this is not a good time to travel. I will probably arange a local hike next week.”

“I see my government to be made up of fallible human beings, usually trying to do the best they can. I'll take 'em over the the guys on the other side, any time! There are exceptions. Was it H.L. Menken who say something about democracy being a terrible form of government, but a hell of a lot bettern than any of the alternatives? Hey tilt? I gotta get peter to bed. Can you or kleetn or somebody find that quote?”

“I guess I react differently to this than I would have in the past.

My mom died last November after 6 to 8 months of illness. During that time I realized that it was important to laugh in the midst of grief.

I also know that the ache of sadness becomes a comfortable companion with time. Good things happen again, even though we might carry the memories of those departed with us. The living must carry on.”

“Pathman, I am fully aware of that quote. However it refers to DEMOCRACY, not the corrupted system currently in place.”

“i.e. there is a great deal of room for improvement. So if I understand you, you fully support the corrupt system in place?”

“Spock, you are one sick dude. If you don't like our system of government, why don't you go somewhere where everyone is "equal" like in Iraq or the Sudan.”

“Spock = Cannon fodder.”

“Don't blame "the terrorists", rather blame your government for failure to do it's responsible job of protecting you.
Spock
10:24:55 PM
9/13/01


Who the hell is this guy?”

“OmaHiker, as a matter of fact, I am in South Korea at the moment. And let me tell you, I feel a lot more secure and safe here in this foreign land than I would in America...especially in a "Target" store. ;-)”

“this guy used to be "teddy"

he bitched about everything, then, too.”

“Gee, don't we pay taxes for national security? Guess not, rather our taxes are spent on unneeded weapons that some politician wants to procure for his district that the weapons contracter is in.”

“
weeeeeeeeeeee”

“Please let that not be a gerbil! LOL”

“jen's hamster is dancing, too!”

“

Is this it? ;o)
OK, I gotta get some sleep...I'm losing it. LOL”

“sunshine, recruiters, on the contrary, don't like to hire over qualified people. They worry you are just taking the job because you need a job fast, and will then quickly move on to something better.

When you go on your interview work into the conversation why you want this particuliar job, and why you will be happy to work there for years to come. Don't say anything about the "sunspots" because they always think that women with children will take too much time off of work, especially a women that is divorced.

I wish you good luck.”

“Spock, I do not support corruption. I support the principles on which this country was founded, which included an understanding that times would change, improvements could be made, and that people are imperfect and corruptible. Nor did Menken have any lack of cynicism for our political system. I believe he was refering the democracy in our form, none other.

Pick another spot on earth that you would prefer. Not some Eutopian fantasy, something in existance. I'll stay right here shoulder to shoulder with the rest of those who you detest, who in balance are trying to do the right thing.

What do you do that is so perfect? Are you infallible? What do you propose to do to improve our democracy? Are you doing it? Is it constructive or destructive?

When I look around right now, I see miraculous things. I am not ashamed, I am very proud.

How secure is South Korea? Look out. A smart tactitian will spread attacks to spread our resources. We have no small presence on that peninsula. Americans around the globe are potential targets. I am convinced any state that is perceived to have defiled the Muslim Holy Lands may be a target.”

“I would have to say that I am disappointed that while terrorism has been building and growing for many years, the FBI has been protecting us from Randy Weaver and David Koresh.
However, now that we seem to be on the same page, I support the efforts to find the culprits behind this heinous act. It is a time for all of us to be united, which, by the act of togetherness, will help defeat terrorism.”

“It's not just the FBI, it's infected every part of the gov't. For instance, the INS is worried about single South Korean women...my fiance can't get a visa to VISIT the US. However, Arab men known to be on security alert lists (as reported today in the media) are living in the country. Go figure!

To Pathman, there are lots of fanatasic places to live in this world. I would live here in Korea if I could understand and speak the language. Same goes for countries like Switzerland, Australia, Canada and more if I could speak the language and obtain employment. It amazes me how much arrogance I see on this site. I mean, it's one thing to be proud and patriotic of the USA, but lets not be assinine about our arrogance.”

“If I sound arrogant, I don't mean it to be so. In fact, I find this is quite humbling and has demonstrated profoundly just how vulnerable we are. We are not perfect by any means, and our confusion and impotence in handling foreign visitors is a good example. I wish you and your fiance the best.”

“Pathman, here it is:

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

--Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)”

“*That's* why I couldn't find it!

How's about:

"Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey-cage."

- H.L. (Henry Lewis) Mencken (1880 - 1956)”

“"I can grouse about the food, and the C.O. and anything I blame please. And that?s more than you with your Gestapo and your storm troopers and your Aryan bourgeois. Ahhh, nuts. What?s the good of talking to you. You can?t even begin to understand democracy. We own the right to be fed up with anything we damn please and say so out loud when we feel like it."

"Andy Brock" (Raymond
Massey), to a German soldier holding him captive.

The 49th Parallel (1941)

Emeric Pressburger (1902?1988), Hungarian screenwriter, and Rodney Ackland (b. 1908), British.”

“Spock, you make me want to vomit!”

“Go ahead and vomit, Leatherneck, if it will make you feel better. So will bombing the sh!t out of Afghanistan. Question is why are you so fanatically angry NOW? Why weren't you as angry when Bin Ladin bombed American Embassies in Africa, or the USS Cole, or the Marine barracks in Beirut or Saudi Arabia? If Bin Ladin retaliates aginst the US in what has been a war for many years, why is the US government only now angry enough to "go to war?" The goverment now says it knows about these terrorist organizatios and will go after them. Excuse me, why weren't you doing your job before? Bush now wants billions of dollars to fight this war against terrorism after the fact. Why wasn't the government proactive instead of reactive? The warnings have been in the media for years. Let's get involved in a long, drawnout war with terrorists - sure, we can win that. How about instead of spending a trillion dollars on war, damage to buildings and the economy, not to mention lives, go about this in a much better way. Instead of SPENDING money, we can win the war by SAVING money. STOP giving billions of dollars to Israel every year, stop supporting them and their terrorism, and pull our troops out of the Gulf? The reason so many Arabs hate the US is the lack of respect. Let's just try it for a change.”

“Tilt,kleetn thanks. Sorry I got them confused. I like the counterpoint of them, anyway.

Here is one from Thomas Jefferson that is particulary applicable.

"Every nation is liable to be under whatever bubble, design, or delusion may puff up in moments when off their guard." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:381”

“Great idea Spock. Let's let those ba$tards dictate who we befriend. While we are at it lets pull everything American out of South Korea including your A$$. Will you go for that? I bet North Korea would.”

“All I can say to that, Leatherneck, is that South Korea (unlike Israel) is not condemned regularly by the United Nations. How is it that every nation on earth can condemn Israel, and the only oppsing votes against such resolutions come from Israel and the US. Is every other nation on earth wrong? Maybe if so many stupid Americans weren't driving gas guzzling SUV's, maybe the Arabs wouldn't have us by the balls, and wouldn't have so much money to sponsor terrorists. Maybe the Arabs consider Israel a terrorist country...well is you want to befriend a terrorist, expect the worst. Recent reports by government intelligence (oxymoron) reports say that this act in NY/DC wasn't even the worst of it. Reports say that in 10-20 years we can EXPECT terrorist attacks via nuclear/biological/chemical warfare. Wouldn't you rather end this escalating tit for tat than be visited by a nuclear bomb in your town?”

“Spock, your statement to Leatherneck implies that its inappropriatte to be "so fanatically angry NOW". Just to fill you in, this sorta thing hasn't happened here before. It has touched most every Americans life either directly or close to it. Blaming our relationship with Israel is oversimplifying the issue. Bin Laden hates Saudi Arabia for allowing US forces to use their bases in the Gulf War. Bin Laden and his ilk are on the fringe of... well hell, I dont know what but its the fringe. By severing ties with Israel you send the message that if you mess with the US than we will meet your demands and appease you. I doubt this will be a tit for tat response. That is entering into a predictable "relationship" with terrorists and I seriously doubt that WE are willing to do that.”

“hyperpacker, I stated somewhere in these threads earlier that it wasn't just Israel...it's also the American presence on Arab soil, and it's also American influence in the middle east. I've also stated earlier somewhere that Bin Laden brought this war home a couple years ago, but the attack was thwarted in Port Angeles, Washington. He has also been killing Americans in overseas embassies as well as the USS Cole. Why weren't you equally outraged then? Was it because the terrorists targeted the US government personnel? Did you really think that terrorists would not attack the US on it's mainland? Wake up.”

“Spock, you think the intelligence community could have prevented this? Pray tell how. Obviously you have such vast experience in foreign intelligence operations and counter terrorism. Its really fricking easy to sit back and second guess what OTHERS have done. We dont hear of the operations that are stopped (it can compromise our personnel) we only see the effects of those that occur. I can speak from limited experience in this, I used to work for USSOC/JSOC. That would United States Special Operations Command/Joint Special Operations Command. BTW the British tried apopeasement with Hitler...and you see how far that got them!”

“Spock I was outraged when the prior incidents occured. I felt then as I do now that Bin Laden IS a clear and present danger to the US and our interests abroad,and that he and his supporters should be dealt with without mercy or compassion.The magnitude of the recent attack just seems to overpower them a bit and THIS attack happened here.”

“PS I didnt hear that many "Arabs" complaining (except Iragis) when we were on their soil in the early 90's.You sound like an apologist for these villains you should be ashamed.”

“Like I said before, hyper...if the INS can lock out single Korean women from VISITING the US (BTW, single Korean women are a serious known threat to national security), then why can't they do the same with Arab men? If the FBI weren't the keystone cops as they have been the past few years using resources to investigate potential terrorist threats instead of wasting time manufacturing false evidence. For pete's sake, the FBI is the responsibility of BUSH, where is the leadership for this agency in chaos?”

“and you also have a selective memory, hyper. There were many Arabs objecting to the US presence in the Gulf back 11 years ago.”

“Furthermore, if you want to accuse me of being an apologist, so be it. As a US citizen I would like to apologise for the US influence to install the Shah in Iran and their natural anger towards the US. I would like to apologize for the US aid to Saddam/Iraq, including the military buildup of Iraqi forces to defeat the Iranians which we hated so much back then. Unfortunately, that mistake lead to another...having to subsequently fight that same regime and miltary which we created. US policy mistakes in the middle east seem to just feed off one another in a compounding nightmare. Let's end the circle of violence and try an intelligent approach for a change.”

“Amen Spock, Amen”

“I forgot to mention that the WTC was bombed back in '93, Osama was behind that if I'm not wrong. Also forgot to apologize for the US shooting down an Iranian passenger jet killing hundreds of innocent Iranian people and children.”

“I have said it before, I will say it again

Why are we selling arms to Iran, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Turkey & Kuwait?

I think we should sell em to both sides, personally”

“Good point, Biz. Why are we profiting from the sales of weapons? Isn't it reasonable to believe violence breeds more violence?”

“Spock, The FBI has a responsiblity for national NOT international issues. IF (I stress) if there was a break down it would be with the CIA,DIA and other agencies tasked with international terrorism. The FBI takes over when the issue becomes local...like AFTER an attack.”

“Might as well dance,
might as well smile,
life goes on for a little bitty while!”

“hyper, the issue HAS been local for years, ever since Bin Laden orchestrated the bombing of the WTC in '93. Did the FBI believe that the suspects were caught and that would be the end of domestic terrorism? I'm sorry, but the culpability clearly rests with many agencies including the INS, FBI, CIA, and FAA.”