A**HOLES W/DOGS

“Then, yes, consider me paranoid, phaedrus. I don't trust dogs.”

“Hey, let's just all call a truce and say the dog-owners won this one, and call it day, k?

Please sign here ________________ here ______________ and here ________________, initial here ____ here ______ and here ______, and then we'll, oops, almost forgot, please also sign here _____________ and here _____________ and initial this right here __________, and we'll get the rest of the forms out to you as soon as we can. Whew! Thank you. Glad that's over.

Okay, carry on. Nothing to see here folks, keep a move on, nothing to see here, keep it movin', come on PEOPLE, GO ON, GET, SHOOOO! SOMEONE'S GONNA GET HURT AND IT AIN'T GONNA BE ME! Finally. Thanks.”

“I second that.”

“My 6 month Golden is a spas when she sees other people or dogs. EVERYONE is her friend...even people like bacpac. Therefore she will remain leashed. I'm all for dogs on the trail but there's nothing worse than a spas dog crashing in on you while you're cooking lunch beside the trail or sitting in camp. Bacpac is right about one thing, dog owners do not realize some of the things dogs do that bother others. They see it as normal behavior but the anti-caninites see it as a bother.

If a dog is voice trained and does listen, no problem. Even when my Honey reaches the point where she can be off leash she will be wearing her training (shock) colar.”

“I don't always carry, it's only used as a last resort. Occasionally bad things do happen in wilderness area's & I am a peace officer. I have very high tolerances. I didn't do anything to the dog owner whoose dog bit me (disdn't want to give up my free time either) but his attitude needed adjustment. I believe there would be more tickets on dogs, but the complainants don't want to hike back out or give up their free time in a police station or come back for court far from their home. Most of these cases would be handled differently town to town & judge to judge. It shouldn't be, but each is their own little fiefdom.

If your doorbell rings, do your dogs bark? I can see if someone is coming down the trail naturally you put the leash on your dog right? But if someone comes out of a blind spot & you didn't see them I believe your dogs would react. Mine was very well trained & would. I've startled bears & they reacted aggresively. I have seen riders thrown because of dogs & I have seen dogs pee on people's pack & tent. You are probably use to it, but "wetdog" is a pretty nasty smell for the dogless. I don't mean to offend you or anyone else, but just bring it to mind that not everyone likes dogs, even if they are polite or nice to them on the trail.”

“Buk -
yer dogs are verry hamsom and perty and what never. Are they boys or are they girls? I can not tell if they got goobers and cooters.

Anyways I wold like to go walkin in the woods and sleepin in the woods with yall. That way I culd smell ever buddys stinky butts and nother theengs.

Tell yer dog that I got a hubsand tho that is Gissmeaux. He is verry hamsom and will the fend my onner if yer dogs want to do seks and give them perty good ressel ups!
BOL!”

“catskhiker, I think we're beatin' a dead horse to death here (is that possible?), so hopefully this will be my last post on the issue, but again, your experiences of people getting bitten by dogs, dogs peeing on tents and backpacks, and dogs being aggressive on the trail totally contradicts my experiences, not only with my dogs, but with others. I pretty much "live" in the wilderness, and seriously, I have come across plenty of dogs. Hundreds of them over the years. I have NEVER, including my own and everyone elses, have NEVER had a dog pee on or in my tent, or sleeping bag, or backpack, or scare me, or ANY of the things you seem to imply are "common", they've NEVER happened to me. Am I lucky, or you just unlucky? I dunno. Maybe it's different out where you are.

Come to think of it, it MUST be different where you are, because I have encountered dozens of bears in my hiking, even at very close quarters. I have startled them at close ranger, often with cubs, and not ONCE has a bear acted aggressively towards me. They usually run like skeeered dogs. This is even true of my grizzly bear encounters in the Bob Marshall Wilderness in MT and the Teton Wilderness in Wyoming, in very remote areas. Yet you say you have bears act aggressively towards you more than once? Our experiences in the wilderness are soooOOOoOOoo differently, that's probably why we are at odds with our perceptions.

The only times I've seen bears seem "unafraid" is in National Parks where, oddly enough, dogs aren't allowed and the bears are habituated to people with no fear.

Peace to you, catskhiker.

I'm willing to leave it at "geographical differences", and move on.”

“Wow...this pissing match is STILL going???

There's alot of bear in NY, and although both areas (W and E Coast) are on other sides of the continent, I can imagine the bears in the Cats are pretty high strung, what with being so close to Manhattan and NJ and all.

As a dog owner, and someone who has been an unfortunate witness to many similar dog threads like this one, I can assure you Buck that you'd be better off just letting folks say what they will and stay out of the arguements, as hard as it may be. There always has and always been two sides to this topic and neither is willing or able to budge from their position...so why even try?”

“I was sitting around a campfire next to someone while they were bitten by a dog.

I have had several dogs snap at me.

Had a dog show up at camp covered by human feces. The dog owner didn't believe in burying his turd or leash laws.

I have had several dogs try to steal my food.

I have had muddy paws on me.

I have met several agressive dogs.

I have killed two dogs.

I guess we all have different experiences.”

“Frankenbudder, yer right! bacpac, you are truly a dog magnet! Ripley's Believe It Or Not would be very interested in your story! Perhaps you shouldn't carry a mere handgun, but an automatic sub-machine gun and some hand grenades so you can take out multiple charging dogs at once! :^D

I LOVE THIS PLACE! Really, I do.”

“I don't carry a gun.”

“bacpac, perhaps you should look into investing in this puppy:

[img]
http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/asithappens/entertainment/pictures/troy.jpg
[/img]

The practical solution to dog-hating hikers

Just havin' fun, don't take me too seriously! I'm serious about that.”

“Hmmm...

I love encountering dogs on the trail. I cant say that I would love to encounter bacpac on the trail.

I vote dogs yes, bacpac no.

The issue is resolved. Carry on.”

“*Breathing in a deep lung-full of atmosphere.....retching, coughing, choking*







Oh yeah, I love this forum!”

“I'd still love to backpack with bacpac! Differences in politics, religion, race, views on issues, etc., never get in the way of how I feel about someone. I think a bacpac encounter would be a great thing! Heck, I'd even leave my dogs at home, ONCE anyway :^D, to bacpac with him (I'm assumin' he's a guy). IT'S ALL GOOD! Hike on!”

“Lets see, if you hike in the Desolation Wilderness with an unleashed dog and nothing happens, you won't get cited by the ranger.

However, if the ranger catches your unleashed dog chasing wildlife and issues you a citation, you won't complain, right?

If your off-leash dog gets in a confrontation with a coyote/mountain lion/bear/deer (deer can get very aggressive) and gets mortally wounded, the ranger can cite you for having a dog thats threatening wildlife, and you won't complain, right?

Just to even the field, I know I can get cited by a cop for going 67mph in a 65mph zone, even though everyone else on the road is speeding too.

I can get cited for spitting on the ground, even if everyone else around me is spitting on the ground too.

I can get cited for jaywalking, even if everyone else around me is jaywalking, too.

I can't complain because its MY responsibilityto obey laws/regulation, and not the responsibility of the cop to inform me and everyone else of our responsibility in society. IF thats the case, we'd be living in a place similar to the Soviet Union.

You probably do love your dogs, but you (and I) also realize they (and dogs I've owned) are raised in a protected environment around your neighborhood, and they have adjusted to that environment. Most persons I meet don't realize it or that out in the wilderness they are at the mercy of the environment.

The coyote/dog encounter I mentioned previously was extremely quick and bloodly. The coyote saw a threat coming at it and reacted appropriately in self defense. The dog's owner went hysterical and wanted the coyote hunted down and shot. The owner had no sense he was in a wilderness area (San MAteo Wilderness in So Cal), not a city park. There are risks in wilderness areas, and you probably realize those risks. Most dog owners I see don't.”

“I don't trust dogs."
Mutt

kinda ironic, dontcha think?”

“First off I beleive and agree that owners must be responsible for their pets.

second most dogs are good judges of character so if bacpac got bit...”

“Hi top dawg! If my dogs are acting in a manner as to be worthy of being cited by a ranger, yes, I'm all for it. That's what the law is there for, to be able to go after the situations that demand it. I thought I've said that many times? What I'm saying is that in real life, rangers not only don't "care" if my trained dogs are unleashed, they even compliment me on how beautiful my doggies are. Just like with speeding (here we go again), you can go 67 mph in a 65 mph zone and not even get a glimpse from the CHP, but try going 35 mph in a 25 mph zone when school kids are all around. Or even try going 80 mph in a 65 mph zone, sooner or later you're gonna get ticketed. The goal is to keep people from driving dangerously, not just to have a law to piss people off. Unless you're Sammy Hagar, of course. If your dogs are well-behaved, out here in the western wilderness where dogs are allowed, backcountry rangers don't care if they're unleashed in the backcountry if they are acting appropriately. If a dog is chasing wildlife, as you mentioned, and a ranger sees that, the ranger would probably tell the owner to control their dog. It's not that complicated. This isn't el rocket-o science. Now in National Parks where it is illegal to have a dog in the backcountry, then yes, the rangers will take immediate action. I respect those laws and spend my time in the surrounding wilderness areas, which I usually find to be "wilder" anyway. Where dogs are allowed in the backcountry, like Wilderness Areas, backcountry rangers do NOT expect you to roam for days on end, miles and miles through wild areas, with Fifi on a little 6' leash. It's impractical. They will only throw the leash law (if the area has a specific leash law, often it's "under your control" laws) if your dog requires it by going beyond what's acceptable.

Dude, I don't care if you don't like dogs or people hiking with dogs, I'm hiking with mine, and when Heidi and Sierra get too old to hike with me, I'll be hiking with other dogs, forever and ever until I die, amen. I'm not trying to convince you to accept that, nor do I even care, I respect your views to think otherwise however you choose, but it ain't gonna affect my hiking with my dogs in wild places where even backcountry rangers enjoy my unleashed dogs. Period. Happy tails!”

“Oh, and hey, top dawg, just to let you know, in case my post sounded icky, if you heard me talking in person, it wasn't. Tones are obviously tough to determine through fonts. It's all good.

Real quick, I forgot to mention another thing you brought up that is often used against dog owners... about the dangers in the woods. I hear people cite instances about a dog falling into a hotspring, or getting attacked by wild animals, etc. This also happens to humans. Quite a bit. For every dog story about something tragic happening in the woods, I can probably tell you 5 human ones. This is not a dog-related issue, it's a life-is-dangerous-to-all-creatures issue. Parents with kids that get hurt, or adults taking risks in the wilds and getting injured or killed, or dogs getting injured or killed. This is not a unique danger to dogs. People fall off cliffs, go over waterfalls, fall into hotsprings, drown, get struck by lightning, die from bee stings and snake bites, get eyes impaled on branches, get attacked by bears, etc., etc. Left to their own devices, humans are much more likely to suffer injury in the backcountry than dogs... dogs have a more natural sense of what's truly dangerous. Not always, but for the most part. I'm not trying to convince of this, I understand if someone doesn't like dogs, then they just don't like dogs, or if they do like dogs but think they should stick to the backyard and leashes on the sidewalk, so be it. I'm just happy to give, what I feel, my dogs a "real" life, a life of adventure and excitement, the kind of life I enjoy too. Take away risk, take away any possibility of danger, then take away my life. How boring and predictable would THAT be? Dogs have an incredible sense of adventure. Many owners ignore it and try and subdue it and "train it out of them". Not my dogs, no sirreeeee. They're gonna run like the wild winds and adventure and explore and smell new smells and see new sights and hear new sounds. And everytime I pick up my backpack, or my fishing rod, or my trekking poles, or my paddles, they get as excited as I do to yet again head for the hills for another adventure. It's a thrill for us all. It would break my heart to leave them in the backyard as I excitedly headed off to the wilds. I had to do that for my three-week JMT trip this summer and it about killed me. I thought about them so much on the trail. But I've been makin' it up to them, oh yaaaa!”

“Dont sweat it buck... they still have not cited a law that actually applies to you anyway.....most of CA public lands like PA are controlled by the forest service which does not require a leash(hunting)”

“"I was sitting around a campfire next to someone while they were bitten by a dog.

I have had several dogs snap at me.

Had a dog show up at camp covered by human feces. The dog owner didn't believe in burying his turd or leash laws.

I have had several dogs try to steal my food.

I have had muddy paws on me.

I have met several agressive dogs.

I have killed two dogs.



Man bacpac it’s like we lead almost identical lives! I have had nearly the exact things happen to me with a few exceptions...

"I was sitting around a campfire next to someone while they were bitten by a guy from Arkansa.

I have had several guys from Arkansas snap at me.

Had a guy from Arkansas show up at camp covered by human feces.

I have had several guys from Arkansas try to steal my food.

I have had muddy hands on me.

I have met several agressive guys from Arkansas.

I have killed two guys from Arkansas.””

“Only two? Nigal, you're out of the club.”

“ROTFLMAO @ Nigal...”

“I think i did this back 5 -6 years ago.

90% of dogs encountered off-leash are, at the least, pains in the asses. If I wanted your dogs nose in my crotch, muddy paws on my gear, licking my five year olds face, butt in my stuff, beggin for my food, etc etc etc I would own a dog myself.

Invariably the dog owner, trailing behind the "friendly" dog, when they finally do arrive, and either leash Fido or pulls him away, says . .."oh, he's just friendly, oh he's just saying hi, or don't worry he's great with kids, or he doesn't bite or something other similar banality.

I truly believe that dog owners, blinded by their love of their dog . .. or simply because they are irresponsible and lazy, don't care to view themselves as fitting into this category.

I am firmly convinced. Through my own personal experience, that 90% of dogs, and 90% of dogs owners ahve no business on trails unless they are leashed, and under the control of their owners (not on a 20 foot leash that allows them to run up to other folks).


Your dogs expression of love and affection, which you recognize, will NOT be received by the other person as such . . .unless they are also a dog lover.


THIS IS NOT MY PROBLEM. THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM. IT AIN'T MY DOG ITS YOUR DOG.

Having said that, I enjoy seeing a well behaved dog who is polite and respecful, carrying a pack out on the trail.

Your dogs, and the pictures of them are beautiful Buck. yYou have traveled with them in some spectacular places, and their companionship must be wonderful.



Having said THAT. Even if I take you word for their behavior. You and they are the exception from my experience. The very narrow exception.

Having hiked for 35 years, and having seen hundreds of dogs on trails . . .I can only remember having seen a small handful that i thought belonged there appropriately.


Bacpac is right. You have an assumed arrogance about your dogs place in the wilderness that is whacked.

YOU may be able to care it off, assuming your dogs are everything you say they are, but:

the vast majority of dogs aren't what their owners think and it sucks to meet them on the trail.”

“Hi lee! Ha ha! That does it. I'm trading my dogs in for a couple cats. I never see leash laws regarding hiking with cats in the backcountry. Heeeere kitty kitty...”

“How about a$$holes with dogs attached?

Akitas”

“Buck --

I think that you are raising hackles on the arrogance issue (how's that for a dog reference . . .hackles) because:


Every dog owner whose dog is unleashed, and who misbehaves IS arrogant.

They have the arrogance to assume that:

Everyone should love their dog as much as they do;

Everyone should want to greet their dog;

Everyone should want to tolerate their dog's greeting them;

That their dogs "aggressive" greeting isn't "bad" aggressiveness, its "friendly" aggressiveness, and that's OKAY;

These dogs owners are arrogant (as you are) of assuming that there four footed friend has as much right in the wilderness as any other four footed creature;

They are arrogant of assuming that their dog has as much right to be there as I do.

Neither is, of course, correct. No domestic dog is a creature of the wild. Ever. They are artifically bred lines of dometicated compaions. That's like saying house cats belong inthe wild. Your german shepards belong naturally in the Sierras no more than an Elephant belongs naturally in the Sierras. I see no natural occurence of either . . so I am right.

The problem that you are running into Buck . . is that every "bad" dopg owner . . . .

sounds like, and says the same things as, YOU.

Each assumes the arrogance that their dog(s) is different.

NOw . . your dogs MAY, IN FACT, be different.


But why should I have to guess at that as I approach two large german shepards at the edge of the trail????”

“Buck --

I think that you are raising hackles on the arrogance issue (how's that for a dog reference . . .hackles) because:


Every dog owner whose dog is unleashed, and who misbehaves IS arrogant.

They have the arrogance to assume that:

Everyone should love their dog as much as they do;

Everyone should want to greet their dog;

Everyone should want to tolerate their dog's greeting them;

That their dogs "aggressive" greeting isn't "bad" aggressiveness, its "friendly" aggressiveness, and that's OKAY;

These dogs owners are arrogant (as you are) of assuming that there four footed friend has as much right in the wilderness as any other four footed creature;

They are arrogant of assuming that their dog has as much right to be there as I do.

Neither is, of course, correct. No domestic dog is a creature of the wild. Ever. They are artifically bred lines of dometicated compaions. That's like saying house cats belong inthe wild. Your german shepards belong naturally in the Sierras no more than an Elephant belongs naturally in the Sierras. I see no natural occurence of either . . so I am right.

The problem that you are running into Buck . . is that every "bad" dopg owner . . . .

sounds like, and says the same things as, YOU.

Each assumes the arrogance that their dog(s) is different.

NOw . . your dogs MAY, IN FACT, be different.


But why should I have to guess at that as I approach two large german shepards at the edge of the trail????

If they were on leashes . . .I wouldn't ahve to guess.

So . . ..Bacpac is right.”

“lee's just pissed that his doctor canceled his prostrate exam for this afternoon.”

“lee, my dogs are every bit as "natural" as you and me. It is arrogant of you to suggest you belong in the wilderness and a dog doesn't. My attitude isn't arrogant. What's so arrogant about backpacking with dogs and having backcountry rangers give me kudos? I'm lost. Call me arrogant, I don't care, that doesn't make me so. And you have three eyes.”

“Even I can't believe that this thread is still going on.

I've got a trip planned to Big Bend NP, and unfortunately, Khatru will be staying home. Big Bend has a "no dog" policy, even on the river.

I've talked to rangers at the Buffalo National River (bacpac's back yard). Most of the rangers there don't really care, as long as the dog is under control, but there are 1 or 2 rangers that are "intollerent" (a word that another RANGER used) to dogs on the trail and KIDS too. Go figure.

Dogs are ok on the river at Buffalo, but not on the trail??? again, go figure. But, thems the rules...If I decide to break the rules, then I will do it alone, or with another dog/human (stratdewd & bucky). If I get caught, then I'll pay the fine, but, again, most rangers don't care (and that's what I've been told by the park office itself).

So...who's the winner or loser of this battle? no one. Do what the situation demands...

Buck...you truely are blessed to have such great doggies!!! I'm hoping that Khatru will grow up to be a great doggie, right now, he's really a good dog, greatness is down the road in a year or 2.

and Ducttapes dog, Keiff (im guessing named after Keiffer Sutherland) is a really good dog too. Even Sonja has Paco the taco dog. I like hikin with dogs, they are pure entertainment.

As for wet, smelly, and dirty personages and or gear. hahahaha...I laugh at dirt, and love gettin smelly. the smellier the better! If your not into dirt and stink, then this ain't the activity for you. Scratched and dented gear...no worries!!! war wounds...and if Khatru is gettin into someone elses stuff...trust me...I'll be all over him in a heartbeat. but, maybe it'll be ME thats gettin muddie paw prints on the tent and sleepy bag..naw...just kiddin.

but, I wonder this, since the subject of dirty stuff has arisen...how many people actually go home and wash the packs, tents, sleepy bags so that they always look and smell like new...anywho...

as Sarabelle says..."whatnever".”

“Stik,
Dang, I forgot all about Sarabelle's saying, "Whatnever" ROTFLMAO, that just made my day....LOL
PS
Sarabelle, I can't wait to give you a good belly rub...”

“LMFAO @ Nigal's "Arkansas" post.”

“Me, Belle, et al, were "busted" on Cumberland Island a) camping in an illegal location, and b) having a dog - that would be Sarabelle.

Poor ranger. On the one hand, he wanted to cite us (me), but on the other hand, doing so would be contrary to their "friendliness" policy.

He told us to leave the island, but heavy seas wouldn't permit doing so. Instead, we were able to camp on some private land (Carol Ructaschell).

As long as the wild horses and ferral hogs run amok amongst Cumby, I will continue to "sneak" Belle out to there.

I assured the ranger that our off-trail activities were along horse trails, for which he commended us.

LNT = GET THE FRIGGIN' HORSES OFF CUMBERLAND ISLAND!”

“Iknow you by your responses. To whit:

Nigal -- A frustrated, in the closet homosexual (not that there's anything worong with that). I am not entirely sure what my prostate has to do with unleashed dogs where they don't belong . .butt it was a funny non-sequitor anyway.

Stikmon --

I love dirt and stink and sweat in the woods. That's why I go. I love walking through squishy mud. Because of the way I walk, the inside of my calfs are often caked with mud by the end of the day (from the other foot hitting). In your ARROGANCE, BLINDNESS, IGNORANCE, SHORTSIGHTEDNESS or whatever it is, as a dog owner, can you possibly NOT see that i would distinguish between my own mud and filth and that of a wet dog . . .especially not my wet dog???? Do you simply not see that?? Or understand it?????? If you don't, then . . .I know you by your answer.

Buck --

I belong inthe backcountry and anywhree else I damn please because I am HUMAN. And I (we) made the damn rules. Your dogs and you didn't. If dogs were in charge I am sure they would create areas where i had to be on a leash. But until then . . .I am in charge. Not you. Not your dogs.

RE: Rangers giving you kudos. To use your analogy regarding speeding. I don't give a rat's left nut if you and a state trooper are engaged in a friendly drag race, he loves your new hot road and wants to road test it. If you are going 66 mph, or 86 mph you are still breaking the f-ing law. You could be standing in a crowd of friendly rangers, and if I complained about your unleashed dogs I would expect you to be cited. And I would be within my rights to do so.

Again . . I have no particular problem with the two of you, or your respective dogs. I love big dogs, and am a particular fan of huskeys.

HOWEVER . . .You both are blind. COmpletely blind to the fact that not everyone views dogs with the love that you do, and that THEY are right. NOT you. THEIR rights on a trail in the backcountry take precedent over YOUR DOGS rights in the backcountry. PERIOD.

YOU ARE WRONG.


BACPAC FOR PRESIDENT 2004”

“I agree with Lee about the arrogance thing. I love dogs, have always had dogs, mine have never been good trail dogs though and always stayed home.
It's "the rules don't apply to me" thing that really gets to me, and the owners (seriously) thinking it's cute when their dog puts his paws on my chest and barks at me.

To be fair the thread title needs to be Dogs with A$$holes...”

“Sheesh, this could go on forever, you guys aren't even reading the freakin' posts, no one is saying the rules don't apply to us, snickerflinks! I'm done with the circus for realz. You don't wanna hike with dogs, I'm hiking with dogs, it's cool, take care! FLEMFACE! HA HA! Bye now.”

“I've never had a single problemwith a dog in the woods or in the city. I just can't understand how so many people have. Even when people have told me that a particular dog is dagerous, I've treated the dog with respect and gotten through without being bitten or attacked.

Mind-boggling.”

“Always love your vile and vigor lee! LOL!”

“Lee, your posts regarding arrogance...sound soooo arrogant!”

“Lee, thank you for the endorsement.

I think I would make a better Sheriff than President.”

“i hear ya about never seeing these evil dogs. i never see em either.
the thing is, some people don't like dogs on the trail, some people like to smoke in a shelter even though no one else smokes, some people want to discuss every piece of gear you own when all you want to do is cook your dam dinner, and some people fart in your tent, etc. etc.
the point is you're gonna come across things and people you don't like. relax, you're there to enjoy your time. if any of this gets to you that much, you have bigger problems to deal with, if you ask me.
now, about that one jerk, that threw a lighter in the fireplace at the russel field shelter, let's all b!tch about people like that.”

“One other great thing about having dogs on backpacking trips is that they keep giraffes out of your camp at night. I don't care HOW well you hang your food in a tree, if a giraffe comes by, you're gonna lose it. I've seen it a meeeellion times.

NNoo... II hhaavveenn''tt bbeeeenn ddrriinnkkiinngg... wwhhyy ddoo yyoouu aasskk??”

“freekin girraffes! i hate those basterds!”

“I wondered what that smell was. Giraffes stink like....oh wait, that's just your sock.


Nevermind.”

“Wow. I leave for work for 3 days and look what I miss? Very interesting thread. I wanted to leave a post about how wonderful my dog is on the trail...with no real effort to train on my part (she just inherited my charm). But after realizing some opinions are set in stone, I just want to thank all the anti-dogs-on-trails people for opening my eyes to the fact that I just may have to leash her to protect her. I have every confidence in her well behavior but I'd feel real bad if she were kicked, hit, maced, or shot due to someones irrational fear.”

“It is not an irrational fear. It is common courtesy being ingored.

Would you like it if I put my dirty paws on you?”

“and that is a fear of dirty paws?? I would bet the farm that my dog wouldn't jump on you. I cannot, however, make that bet with my son's dog. Thus, she is leashed. I just want to reiterate that I now realize there will be frowns no matter how well behaved a dog is on the trail. I think I have been a responsible AND courteous pet owner.”

“same here ivy.

bacpac, some dogs are good....like buckshot


and he's never used drugs...”