A**HOLES W/DOGS

“More so than you! If you feel so strongly about this, why don't you start up your own little organization to keep dogs off the trail.

Question for you: When was the last time you went hiking and encountered a dog that did something to offend you?”

“When was the last time you went hiking and encountered a dog that did something to offend you?

Last weekend.”

“Two weekends ago I was chased up a tree by a couple dogs. I'm not sure what breed they were - most likely mixed. But they galloped at me barking and snarling, and a handy tree was nearby, so I scrambled up instead of pulling out my pistol or confronting them with my hiking staff. They quickly lost interest and moved on. No collars on them and no one was around to my knowledge, so they were probably farm dogs out on long patrol.”

“Arrogant: 1 : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance in an overbearing manner

Ha! Arrogant? Man, oh pickin' man, what in the flyin' flippin' freakin' wide world of sports fans does taking a stance on hiking with dogs make one arrogant? Ha ha! I'm not saying "I'm better", I'm just taking a stance on hiking with dogs. Doh? What does that have to do with me being better than you? You don't like dogs, I do. That's cool, I doubt we're gonna take a hike together hand-in-hand anytime soon anyway! Ha ha! Whew doggie! I love this place! How YOU doin'?

As for the dog rule, it is only enforced when necessary. It's there for the blatant offenders. Just like speeding laws. You can go 10 mph over the speedlimit out in the lonely deserts of Nevada, but try speeding 10 mph through town in a school zone when the kids are all over the place, and you're gonna get ticketed. Rightfully so. Same applies with dogs in the backcountry. It's there to keep the serious violaters away, and it's something on the "books" that they can throw at you if "necessary". You take your dog backpacking in a National Park, you're gonna get booted out if caught. It's against the law in the National Park backcountry, and I respect that. You hike in the National Forest or a Wilderness Area on a multi-day trip, and unless your dog is really icky, the rangers don't care. If the ranger sees your dog chasing a bear cub, or it's constantly barking at a crowded lake, or threatening people, your dog will get booted. If your dog is your "hiking companion", and staying with you and exploring wild places together, the rangers don't care about leashes. Maybe they do down south, or back east, but not my experiences out here in the big wide open wild areas of the west. Not only don't they care if your dog is leashed if they are well-behaved, they will pet them and compliment you on them, and ask you about how you trained them and where you got the doggy backpacks, etc. Like it or not, that's how it is.”

“It is arrogant to assume that the laws do not apply to you.”

“Two weeks ago.”

“"I never met a dog owner who didn't think their dogs were better behaved than they actually were. Making excuses for violating rules and laws is a common theme among canine proponents."

My dog is not well behaved. I would never take her on the trail... she's just a dumb pup. So now you can't say that you never met someone who says their dog is more well behaved than she really is.”

“... although, you really didn't "meet" me, per se, but you get the jist.”

“Buck, did you get my email?”

“In most cases, I do drive the speed limit in my own car. I doubt anyone would pull you over for an extra 2mph. I don't tailgate (I allow 1+ car length for every 10mph). I do come to full stops at stop signs. I've seen too many mangled & dead young people who were in a rush. I'll take the extra 15 mins to drive wherever I'm going, at an easy safe pace. I don't usually bother people, but I do carry a peace officer's badge & a gun.”

“"In addition, most dog owners are pathetically lonely, psychologically isolated, mentally inept, and in need of social interaction on any level. The people who feel a need to develop a relationship with a blindly loyal (and stunningly unintelligent) animal such as a dog often are those who are too socially crippled to manage a relationship with a sentient, discriminating creature such as a human being.

If you insist on taking a dog into the backcountry, perhaps you had better reassess the reasons for your misguided dependence on this ignoble animal. Your problem may be that you are afraid to deal with creatures on an equal basis in trying to get the love and attention you need." Violin

If I ever meet you on the trail, Be ready for a knuckle sandwhich in your Grill......and then I will hang you with my dogs leash.....
ya phuckin' D1ckhead.....”

“tough guy! Lol”

“In addition, most dog owners are pathetically lonely, psychologically isolated, mentally inept, and in need of social interaction on any level. The people who feel a need to develop a relationship with a blindly loyal (and stunningly unintelligent) animal such as a dog often are those who are too socially crippled to manage a relationship with a sentient, discriminating creature such as a human being.
UnDeAd fLeSh EaTiNg ViOLiN
09:52:38 AM
10/29/03

C'mon now, you don't actually believe that load of crap, do you?”

“It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.”

“It's not the size of the fight in the dog. It's the caliber of the bullet shattering his ribs and ripping holes in his heart & lungs.”

“It's called "trolling".”

“I'll take dogs in the backcountry long before I'll take squirrels in my tomato patch!”

“you're all A**HOLES! there, that settles it.”

“I have to remember that pack.”

“I really can’t believe a few innocent comments caused such a stir.

snafu - From the looks of your pics on Phil's Photo Page, I have a reason to be scared. Please, please don't hurt me.”

“"It is arrogant to assume that the laws do not apply to you."
bacpac
02:12:33 PM
10/29/03

Hi bacpac! I could see your point, IF I EVER SAID WHAT YOU CLAMIED! Ha ha! Oh man, where did I ever say laws don't "apply" to me? I thought I said clearly that I speed (of course speeding laws apply to me!), or if I'm in a hurry, I come to a stop at a stop sign, but my tires may be rolling slightly still before I turn (of course "full-stop" laws apply to me), among a myriad of other violations. What I'm saying is, that even if I go 62 mph in a 55 zone (as I'm sure you do at times), it is against the "law", but not necessarily against what is "fine and dandy", DEPENDING on the circumstances. CHP's pass me frequently as I go 68 mph on a 65 mph highway, and backcountry rangers don't mention my doggies not being on a leash. Call that arrogant on my part, or on their part, I don't care. I don't think you are arrogant if you go over the speed limit on the highway. I have spoken.”

“Why am I an A**hole Lyra? I eat at your favorite sandwich shop.”

“"a myriad of" is improper English.”

“hey, i'm an A**HOLE, too. :-)”

“I like dogs Buck. If I ran into yer fine hounds I be proud to shake their paws.”

“OK, then we can be a-holes together.

Buck, I think you and I are the only ones to agree here.”

“I hope you called us A-holes tongue-in-cheek. Wait, that didn't sound right.”

“I'm a A**HOLE, he's a A**HOLE, she's a A**HOLE, we're a A**HOLE; wouldn't you like to be a A**HOLE too?”

“See, violin's gotta boner already! I bet you anything he has a count of his highest number of posts garnered from one post memorized.

Also Buck, sooner or later he's going to post a link, DON'T CLICK ON IT!”

“Right Nigal! Good advice”

“Buck and Nigal sittin' in a tree...”

“As for the dog rule, it is only enforced when necessary. It's there for the blatant offenders.

Buck
01:32:59 PM
10/29/03

This is where you said it.

The laws pertain to all dogs, not just the blatant offenders. Your continuted reference to traffic laws has no bearing on this issue.”

“...P O R K I N G...

Violin's just upset when he sees pictures of people backpacking. That green eyed monster ya know.”

“by taking your dog into the woods off leash are you as bad as the person who left his garbage at the campsite? or took a #&%!$ on the trail w/o burying it?”

“Ductape, I see that with more people than dogs.”

“"The laws pertain to all dogs, not just the blatant offenders. Your continuted reference to traffic laws has no bearing on this issue."

The speeding law is a great analogy. It's a law, it applies to all (well, except for the poh-leece), but it is only enforced when abused. I get passed over my CHP's just about every day, bacpack, even though I'm going over the speedlimit. Care to explain that? And I come across backcountry rangers in the wilderness, with unleashed dogs, and they DON'T (I'll repeat for your sake, DON'T DON'T DON'T) mention a THING about not being on leashes, and in fact, they usually compliment my dogs and are conversation pieces WITH THE RANGERS, UNLEASHED. Care to explain? Am I breaking the law according to them? If so, please explain why they don't simply give me a "warning", much less a ticket? huh? Huh? HUH?

Other than that, hi.”

“Those have to be the coolest pictures of backpacking dogs that I have ever seen I am going to save a few of them if you don't mind Buck.

Very very cool!!!!

8)”

“"by taking your dog into the woods off leash are you as bad as the person who left his garbage at the campsite? or took a #&%!$ on the trail w/o burying it?""

HA HA HA HA! I love the great (read silly) measures the dog-haters go to for their "pet" peeve! ha ha! Uhhh, you won't see no dog leaving trash in a campsite, or even BUILDING a campsite. That would be, uhhh, you. Humans = high impact. But I won't suggest we put you on a leash. It's your right to enjoy the wilderness, just like all the other wonderful creatures under the sun. I guess maybe we should leash all the coyotes out there. Pooping and peeping and carryin' on like they do.

Yep, let's say dogs are bad, horses are okay, they're legal. Horses poop in bucket-sized piles, right on the trail, are heavy animals (though beautiful!) with metal-lined hooves, and they trample meadows, and eat vegetation, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love horses, and I don't necessarily want them banned, but why all this crap about dogs? Horses, mules, goats, llamas... all fine and dandy. Put a backpack on Rover and WHOA, STOP THE WORLD, I WANNA GET OFF!”

“Oh and just for the record Buck.

I don't hate dogs, love em..

Just don't want them out on the trail.

Spanky”

“If dogs can be trained for search and rescue (and seeing eye, etc), they can surely be trained to hike. Duh!

Great pix, Buck.

Good looking doggies.

It's appearant you don't need no stinking leashes. Voice command is a viable backcountry option (and recognized by NFS, etc).

Whoverer mentioned that domesticated dogs are too soft for wild animals has obviously never witnessed a coupla plots tear into a bear...”

“OH #&%!$!

Now you've gone and brought horses, mules, goats AND llamas into the dogs on the trail thread. Care to work in guns, abortion and politics too?”

“Here we go..................


8o”

“Well, I don't think we should abort babies on or off trail, I don't even own a gun, and you give us enough politics on this forum so we don't need to take it on the trail. So THERE! :Þ PLLLTTTHHH!!!”

“Is it true that Klinton had his own dog killed? Just what did Buddy know and when did he know it?

Remember: When they say it's not about the leash, it's about the leash!”

“GOJO

You and I already came to an understanding on this subject some time ago. I wanted to keep it that way.

"If dogs can be trained for search and rescue (and seeing eye, etc), they can surely be trained to hike”

Well sure you can train a dog to do just about anything, they are smart loving and loyal. Just because a dog can drive a car, doesn't make it right.

Just because your dog is good on a trail doesn't make that right either.

Driving 67 in a 65 speed zone, isn’t going to get you killed or in trouble with the police, but it doesn’t make it right.

CAN, Ability to do, does not equal should do or the correct thing to do. GOJO you are able to kill a dog, but would killing one be the right thing to do?

Lets move on shall we?”

“????????”

“"Is it true that Klinton had his own dog killed? Just what did Buddy know and when did he know it?"
undead flesh eating Violin
05:09:29 PM
10/29/03

I may be mistaken, but I thought they ruled Clinton's dog's death, Buddy, a suicide?”

“they are a bunch of whiney sissy humans. I've had my dog on river and shore over a dozen times this summer...never an incident...and the forest rangers never...NEVER said BOO! about it. Khatru is a river legend and everyone know him in his yellow PFD and twinklin bell.

This is a debate that no one can win.

I took him to Mammoth and hiked with CMB, Free 20099 and 2 other folks...there were NO incidents....and everyone was cool. BUT>>>

I do know of some TT'ers that are NOT dog people...even though they have had their photos taken with other dogs, but then again, some of them use leaves to wipe their own a$$holes, whatnever. I try and stay away from trips where there may be conflicts...and avoid hassles...its a big wilderness for sure. It is a real pleasure to see your dogs and the places you've been with them...I think its wilderness envy that has set everyone off. again...whatnever!

Hike on fellow dog brother...I'm headin home to show Khatru the photos...and plan a trip with him, I may even let him pick a place to go. In the meanwhile, the Irish Wilderness will be our next stompin grounds this weekend...and if ya don't like dogs...stay home...this is Khatru's hike. I'm just the chaffuer.”

“Great pics of the Sierra (?) and your doggies. I see Banner Pk, and Thousand Island Lk. Where were some of the other pics taken?

I suspect your dogs are well received partly because they are well trained, loaded down with a pack, and at least a little tired from carrying the pack. So when they are in camp, maybe they don't race around like crazy, which is what irritates some people.

In my winter camping class, I had a student who wanted to bring his older shepard on the campout. I said he could, if he would be responsible for taking care of him. We snoshoed in less than a mile, in soft snow. The student was the only person in the group who didn't bring snowshoes, like he was supposed to. He and the poor dog postholed for a mile in knee deep snow. When we got to the camping area, we laid our packs down, and started building snow shelters. The poor dog was wet, cold, shivering, and didn't have any place to sit down. So he sat his wet stinky fur on peoples packs. When we got our shelters built, we spread tarps on the floors, and laid out sleeping bags. Of course, the dog explored every shelter, tracking snow overywhere, and walking on sleeping bag. He especially liked to curl up and nap on peoples sleeping bag. And then it was time to eat, and the dog was going crazy with the smells of food, which he would sneak around and steal when he could.

Of course this wasn't the dogs fault, it was the owners'. However, this led to the rule in my classes, NO DOGS. I think its similar uncontrolled dogs and stupid owners that have resulted in no dog rules in the backcountry. These laws are fully needed to keep the nitwit dog/owners under control. I'm sure your dogs are always under control, and I salute you.”

“How about the 'pretzel' deal? How badly do you think Bush had to scare those dogs to keep them from pointing out that falling face first on the carpet doesn't cause this?:

”