Whom do you trust?

“...a Klingon?”

“No one on this site.

Trust, like respect, has to be earned. It cannot be bestowed automatically on a fancy title or ideology.”

“No one is really fully trustworthy. That person just doesn't exist.”

“Who's ya daddy?”

“I don't trust the Bush Crime Family.
If and when "we" do something about squashing the terrorist bugs I don't trust that Oil Baby to do anything concrete about the problems that provoke this terror sh!t.”

“Tom T. what do you think were the causes that provoked this terror shi t? Do you think it is all about oil or history of ridding the world of "evil".......this is a new Holy war between the Christians and the Muslims. Only this time Christianity is hidding under the cloak of FREEDOM.

If I'm not mistaken I believe I heard a quote from Bin Laden stated that in the past ten years OUR defenses have dwindle or something along lines. That would have been on Cliton's watch. Not to point fingers, like you are so willing to do, but something needs to be done. Cliton dropped the ball on this one like many other issues, leaving his mess for this President.”

“What Briar said!”

“You guys are both pointing paws here.

The blame game is fun, no'?

I suppose Clinton could have TOTALLY cleaned up America's act in regard to economic domination, etc.
Too bad!!!”

“Pardon me, but isn't this the Bush family's legacy and debacle? Reports surfaced today on the news that one terrorist (otta?) met with an Iraqi intelligence officer in Germany recently. This is exactly what G.W. wants...to bomb Iraq again in hopes of getting Saddam this time and finishing the job his father failed to do and left this problem to fester.”

“Ain't life beautiful?”

“I'm sure the Paranoid Propaganda Pundits are having a ball with ALL kinds of circular logic and ways to blame Clinton for this mess.”

“I heard that too Spock it was that Atta guy.

I don't think we can lay this at the feet of any one president or administration. This is a snowball affect of many years of bad policies of several western nations regarding this region. We continually choose to support the wrong people and we leave those that we do support swinging in the wind when they need us. As to when it started, good God. These guys are still pissed about the Crusades and they view bin Laden as the next Saladin who is going to user in another golden age of Islam.”

“Atta-boy!

Ya know, they have a right to be pissed about the Crusades. They were just one massacre after another. George wasn't too bright bringing that up.

Seems like we sold our security to the lowest bidder again and again and it finally caught up with us. How many exposés have there been over the years about how airport security was a joke and nothing was ever done to correct it?”

“That's what I mean Tilt. They think of any involvement by a western power in their affairs as another crusade against Islam. We only think in terms of nation vs. nation because we have separated church and state. Their church IS the state. Attack the state and you attack the representatives of GOd. The worst part of mentioning this conflict in terms of a crusade is that they were wars of religion and the Christians lost most of them. Saladin beat the crusaders badly and bin Ladin supporters think he is the next Saladin.

About Saladin

As to the security thing we have the unfortunate tendency to not address a problem until it gets way out of hand.
I'm sick of putting out the house fire when all we needed to do was turn off the stove.”

“As they say, the FAA regulations are written in blood. People have to die before the FAA forces the airlines to spend money. Oh well. What Einstein put the airlines in charge of security in the first place? What a mess.

Saddam thought he was Saladin, too, I believe. The point of my remark about the Crusades was that Our President brought it up this go-'round. Not good. It didn't help, not if one is trying to calm the fears of Muslims worldwide, so we can go after the few who are responsible. The entire planet is hanging on his every word (uh oh).

We don't know who is really behind this, yet. Did Saddam have a hand in it? He's not the religious type. Neither is bin Laden. Islam is not a religion of hate. I don't know what kind of trip the Taliban are on, but they're pretty twisted also... Muslims in name only.

They hide behind Islam. They just use it for a 'front'. But they don't even know they're doing it... it's completely tragic... killing in the name of religion.”

“Tilt, unfortunately (according to an NPR report this morning) during the Soviet/Afghan War, we encouraged the very extremist Muslim schools that trained the Taliban. The head cleric of one of the schools, which are located just over the border in Pakistan, was boasting about how many of his former students are now senior Taliban officials. As was also noted, the Taliban (the word apparently means "student") only studied the Koran and select Muslim writings under the guidance of radical mullahs, these schools offer no math, science, literature, or other secular knowledge. And the cleric said the goal was to spread this system worldwide.

Somehow, the bright lights in our government thought this was appropriate to prop up in our old Cold War paradigm. Talk about looking through the wrong end of the telescope.”

“Killing for god is so old school.

Our crooked-A$$ legislators put the airlines in charge of security because business interests bought and paid for quite a few of our legislators.

For many years we've been hearing about how the government should stay out of the affairs of business.”

“Didn't our government fund Osama and others Afgans back in the early 80's with their struggle against the Soviets?

Tell me folks..... do you still look at a Middles Eastern in the same light as you did prior to 9/11?

I wonder what effect this will have on that whole "racial profiling and hate crime issue" at the local level here in America.

Do you think the FBI CIA NSA INS are right now looking into backgrounds of every known Muslim thru out the U.S., secretly?

Will we have unsanctioned religious persecution and boycotts against Muslims in the U.S.?

What if this does turn into another "jihad", are we prepared for such an endeavor? To battle and squash out this faceless militiant sect of Muslims whose support spans the globe. Possible doing battle in our streets. Are you prepared to see warning signs everywhere reminding you to be on the look out? Are you willing to sacrifice for the greater cause of peace.”

“I'm not ready.
But like child birth it will be, "ready or not, here I come!"”

“Briar Rabbit, yes we did fund and help train the Afghani Mujahadeen. We funded anybody who fought the Communists. The Taliban is not the Mujahadeen.

Do I personally look at "middle easterners" in the same light? Yes I do. This was the work of terrorists and thier associates and only them.

"Will we have unsanctioned religious persecution and boycotts against Muslims in the U.S.? " We already do and it is just as wrong now as it was them.”

“And now Cheney wants to give money to other shady characters to root out the 'terrorists'.

Round and round and round we go.”

“Yep. We supported the Shah and his death squads to maintain our 'listening posts', etc., then we supported Iraq vs. Iran, now G-d knows who. Or what.

So much fallout from the Cold War.... Is there any way off this merry-go-round?

It's insane.”

“You could always move to Switzerland.”

“I don't go for the 'love it or leave it' option. I'd rather stick around and improve it.”

“Forgive me for asking but what are you doing besides posting on trail talk?”

“The Shah of Iran was installed by the U.S. and England after the ELECTED Iranian government nationalized Anglo-Persian Petrol(BP).
Just another case of the corporations running the government for their profit with no regard to the consequences.

I'd settle for the "godless communists" running Afganistan.
Afgan commies were some of the first to be tortured and murdered by the Mujahadeen or Taliban.

Mujahadeen are the Jihad warriors or fighters.
They carry out the Jihad or holy war.
The fight against the U.S.S.R. WAS a Jihad.”

“I have been thinking a lot about that Joy. I am going to be giving blood to the Red Cross regularly now and my wife's company will match any donation so we're making out the big fat check but I feel there must be some way to try and make this a better world besides just money and prayers.

I fell lead to work for racial and relgious unity in order to ease tentions but I just don't know how to go about it.”

“I can't trust myself...after all, I'm over 30.”

“Nige, does your church do much with missions? Not necessarily over seas...”

“Kleetn, I'm 30 does that mean I can trust myself this year and not next year?”

“We are in the process of getting a few things off the ground Joy. Nothing in the area of racial and religious tolerance though. Partners in Hope is one connection they are looking at.”

“Well, Joy, I'm too old to enlist. For the last 5 years I've been trying to help pass campaign finance reform ("Follow the money" and all that). I think if you cut off the head of the snake, it would solve many ills... 'til they find a way around it. They always do; it's a continuous struggle.

I haven't figured out what I can do that would do the most good in this new situation. I'm still working on that. I know burying my head in the sand won't help. All I was trying to say before is we don't have to make the same mistakes. We need to know as much as we can
so as not to repeat them.”

“Don't suspect a friend, report him.”