Non-action and passiveness!

“I choose non-action as a responce to the current crisis!

As soon as you give into anger and revenge, you have lost to the enemy.

A monk sits in meditation.
A man speaks to him in anger
The monk remains silent
The man cuts him
The monk meditates on the suffering that all sentient being experiences and thus feels nothing but compassion for the angry man
The angry man finally gives up
The monk gains everything, learning compassion, patience, tolerance, even teaches the angry man these lessons.

What would him fighting back have accomplished? The body is a vessel, it dies, the monk had accepted that and could see no reason to harm another to save his vessel and lose his mind and his piety.

I wish more people could see the world this way. Compassion at all costs is the way.

Meditate on that tonight, lose your anger, forget your flag, your self, and your religion, think about nothingness, impermanence and the moment.

Live in the present moment, breath in, breath out...”

“Nice sentiment tarpy. I just mentioned on the President's Speech Thread that we should stay reminded of this tragedy so we don't lose our resolve to fight it.

There is another way to look at things. If someone hits me, I hit them back so they can feel my pain. Yes, through pain does come understanding.”

“Not for nothing, but I'm sure I could get a reaction out of you very easily Tarp.

I think you are talking about some idealized Tarp Rat.”

“Just aspiration and enlightenment.”

“I just bought a .25 Beretta Jetfire. This thing is small, but you can unload 9 rounds of hollowpoints in about 1 second. People say you need atleast a .32 to stop someone, but I think 9 .25 hp's in the head would stop anyone or anything.

I have a 20 gauge Ruger Red Label O/U I wouldn't trade for anything. Benelli is a good brand, but I think a Ruger or Beretta O/U is a better gun than any auto!

I also have a 9mm Ruger KP95 handgun and a PC9 carbine. These two guns have interchangable clips. The PC9 Carbine is the best for the money, I just wish I could get some 16 round clips, but they are illegal in MD.

Happy trails!
Wild Child
9:13:18 AM
2/1/01

In Die Hard, McLean says, "Happy Trails" as he throws a grenade.

YIPPIE KAY YAY MOTHER !$%&ERS!
Wild Child
9:33:02 AM
2/1/01


I can't believe my new Beretta has that BS shell casing fingerprint.

If anyone ever finds one of my shell casings they can trace it right back to me.

But, I have heard that if you fire enough rounds out of the gun, it will modify the fingerprint left behind on the casing.

Wild Child
9:37:22 AM
2/1/01

Can a civillian buy a Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun?

Are they legal?

Wild Child
12:58:40 PM
2/2/01

This Wild Child guy any relation to you, Tarpy? 'Spose the monk is packin' a Ruger?”

“Wasn't Wild Child birch's old name?”

“My version reads:

The angry man finally gives up...satisfied, as he has just eviscerated the monk, whose entrails are now on the ground before him.

The monk is dead.

But that's just my version.”

“In a few days, those Afghani's will be singing a certain GAP Band song.”

“OK, Buddha, I'll bite...

What song is that?”

“"You dropped the bobm on me...BABY,

You dropped the bomb on me!"

Tarpy I respect your opinion and your choice to do nothing but I feel that if we want peace we must fight for justice. If Buddists are all accepting of pain and suffering why is there such a cry for Tibet to be free? Should the Tibetins just meditate on their situation rather than call for freedom?”

“It's all well and good to meditate, or hug a tree or do whatever. But these guys have just killed over 6000 people and committed the worst act of vandalism ever. And let's not forget about the injured. Or those who will be killed or injured cleaning up this mess.

Many didn't want to go after him before, because of the possible casulties. Look at the casulities now!!!It's time to stop worrying about the possible casulities and remove the source cause of the casulities.

All the meditators, peace niks and tree huggers should try to practice their peace efforts in Bin Ladens presence. The insist on peace so much, I say prove their methods. If their methods work, I'll be very grateful, and will shake their hands. If they fail, it will be a reality check for them. It's real easy to say this will work, it's another thing to do it in the presence of the enemy. Whatever happened to protecting the innocent and oppressed? And what about standing up for yourself?

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a warmonger. I do have a dread of war. But It seems neccassary now....”

“War is only necessary if you make it that way.”

“There are worse things than war...”

“I say kill the !$%&s, no peace, no passiveness.
But really- I think we will all find some peace when the perpatraitors (sp) of this heinous act, and the folks who fund them are dead dead dead!!!
Passiveness is fine in some cases. Like when someone cuts you off, or turns off the printer when you need it. Non-action is for lazy people.”

“"...[They] insist on peace so much, I say prove their methods.... Whatever happened to protecting the innocent and oppressed? And what about standing up for yourself?"

Uphill Klimber
9/21/01

Those words could just as easily be spoken by the Arab world in regards towards US and Israeli actions in the middle east. Why is not ok for Arabs to protect their own people and homeland from the oppressive Israelis and unwanted American presence/influence on their soil. Just because the Saudi Royal family invited the USA to protect the Royal family wealth/power does not mean we are really welcome on Arab soil.”

“EXCUUUUSE ME gear slut:

"War is only necessary if you make it that way."

If WHO makes it necessary???????
Have you seen the news lately???
You just come off the mountain???”

“Spock, I gotta admit that I don't know much about the middle east. As a general rule, I feel any one has a right to defend there land on their own soil, even chase the enemy where ever they go. As far as who is in the right.... I just don't know enough about it.

BTW,I was calling the peace niks to demonstrate their methods in the presence of the enemy, instead of criticizing the military actions. I'd be pretty interested to see them sit and meditate in front of a line of tanks, but I suspect the result would not be pretty. All I can think of is Tienamin square.... Gotta admit, that guy put his money...er body, where his mouth was.

What I am suggesting is that their methods won't work. The only thing these terrorists understand is the business end of an A10 warthog attack plane.”

“Uphill Klimber, don't mind Gear Slut. He is our resident anti-American. I can't believe he believes his own retoric.

Oliver North spoke today and said let those passive people from Santa Cruz and Berkely etc. come down to the Pentagon and start removing body parts. Would they be protesting then or if their families were hurt from this?
(This is not in his exact words)”

“Of course you would quote Oliver North, LH. He was a true liar and American traitor.”

“Non-violence worked for Gandhi--because the Brits are basically civilized, good people.

The terrorists are not civilized good people.

Also, the analogy of the old monk is seriously flawed in relation to our current situation.

To be more accurate:

A father sits in meditation. His wife is with him and his children play in the yard under his loving gaze. A man speaks angrily to the children. He shoots the man's wife, and laughs when the children cry. He then starts shooting the children, pausing for along time between each shot. The husband/father...what, sits and dwells on compassionate thoughts toward the killer?

I don't mean to sound sarcastic; just trying to make a point...”

“uh, Spock, would you mind cleaning up some of that mess and pass out some body parts??? These people didn't deserve what happened to them.”

“LH, I'm not anti-American. I'm anti- doing something stupid or wrong in haste. If I wasn't a proud American I wouldn't give a damn. In your case I'm especially anti-stupidity. I certainly don't believe your thoughtless rhetoric.

Uphill Klimber, the pot calling the kettle black. Perhaps you should come down out of the hills and see that it is our bad foreign policy which has resulted in these attacks.

"The only thing these terrorists understand is the business end of an A10 warthog attack plane"

Wow!, another self proclaimed expert on how terrorists think! The A10 wreckage will look good right next to the old MIG ones to some of the Afghani's. Now they really can collect the whole set!”

“How many dead Iraqi children deserved to be killed by American bombs? How many Palestinian children deserve to be killed or have their homes bulldozed by American sponsored Israelis? How many Jewish children deserved to die in 30 ongoing years of fighting against terrorism? You are absolutely kidding yourself to believe that G.W. can win a war against terrorism as long as thr US refuses to change its own foreign policy in the middle east.”

“Geez Spock, we keep up agreeing like this and some of them are going to think we're the same person!

Let me set the right, right now.

USA is going to kick South Korea's butt at the World Cup next Summer!”

“Hell HAS frozen over. Again!

Oliver North released undercover photos of Pablo Escobar unloading cocaine in Panama to gain a fleeting political advantage for Ronald Reagan. So what if the whole operation was blown and numerous people including DEA and FBI agents almost lost their lives?

And that's just ONE example.”

“your all living in a dream world! that is not the way reality works people. Nobody innocent deserves to die because of the views of others. Unfortunately, if we do nothing, we will all share the same fate as those already murdered. The enemy will not see how passive we are all being and turn around and walk away, he will cut our head off quicker than you can get in the lotus position! Dream big, but come back to reality now and again folks.”

“Yeah, there is a stadium built here in Daegu for that. However, American soccer players will forfeit after a steady diet of kimchee and bulgogi.”

“Pretty nice to be able to quote peace chapter, and verse when your mama wasn't one of those poor folks flying out the windows of the trade center making the choice of burning to death or final flight 100 floors straight down.

Want to spout peaceful rhetoric to a firemans' pregnant wife?

Think the wife would agree?

Hmmmmmmm.

I was against the war in Viet Nam.

I was FOR WW.

Lay down for Hitler?

Kiss Tojo and thank him for Pearl Harbor?

Oh, Please Osama, I love you!

Kill my brother.
It's OK.

I don't need my daddy either.

Me and my brothers and sisters can raise the baby.”

“No matter what decision is made there will be bloodshed. There will be innocent people maimed and killed. I may be too sensative(sp?), but all I can say is thank G-d that the decision is not one I have to make.”

“Spock is obviously an alien.”

“War is never a good thing. Is it necessary? I would like to think it isn't. Are we willing to lose our sons in the name of the red, white and blue?”

“The risk we take living here in the U.S.A. is that sometimes we have to defend our liberties. The people of our military know the risks, and still there is an influx of recruits in times of strife. I currently have a brother and his wife stationed in Turkey, both Air Force. They are making plans on where they will send their two kids when they are told it is necessary. It will be to my sister's in Dover or here if she can't do it. They are doing these things for your liberty, the liberty you refuse to fight for. They are doing these things for my liberty. I have a 14 year old boy and who knows what the situation will be when he turns 18. I feel it would be selfish to form my opionions strictly on concerns of personal loss when so many others have given their blood and their life to afford me the freedom I currently enjoy. To afford you the freedom you enjoy. See it how you choose, but we are not the only nation that resorts to war, and until all mankind will resort to non-violent methods, it will take the blood of Americans and their families to insure the freedoms WE demand.”

“God Bless Freedom of Choice.”

“...and God Bless those who give there lives to preserve that freedom; past, present, and future.”

“...and G-d bless the fact that people don't take Jerry Farwell seriously.”

“I was surprised to hear Olie North call the passives from Berkely & Santa Crus pony-tail, earing wearing protesters. Those were the people he said should see the body parts being taken out up close.

This is not a comment on whether or not I like Olie. I'm just repeating what he said for those that might not have heard it.”

“Sometimes to save lives you have to stop those that are doing the killing.

There happens to be an awesome classic movie on this topic: "Sergeant York" with Gary Cooper (true story). It is my favorite classic movie of all time. Great rental movie!!!”

“Non-action will only get more people killed. Think back to the bully in grade school so long as you alowed him/her to terrioze you they continued, but when you finally had enough it was stopped. Either you forced him to stop by standing up to him or you had someone else intervene on your behalf.
The U.S.A. has decided to stand up to the bully but he is smaller, crafty, and hard to find so our prez says. But now 12 days has past and they have not felt the sting of our vengeance. Have we frozen his bank accounts... no word. Have we arrested any leaders...no word. Have we flatten his tents, training camps...no word. Hey George ITS TIME...”

“There is no-action, and there is stupid reaction. I'm hoping for alternative action and smart informed action.”

“AN ALTERNATIVE CONVERSATION FROM FLIGHT 93:

"Hey, we've been hijacked & our plane is going to be crashed into Washington, DC, destroying thousands of innocent lives & official government buildings."

"Let's try to prevent this from happening! We'll storm the cockpit, risking our own lives & those of our fellow passengers in order to save the lives of many other people!"

"That is too dangerous. We could all be killed!"

"Don't you think it would be wrong to kill the hijackers? They probably have a legitimate gripe against our nation because of our foreign policy."

"We should try to talk to the hijackers, find out what they want, and give it to them, after all they are people just like us."

"We will be putting the women and children on this airliner at risk by our actions! And what if we crash into a farmhouse where there are children?"

"Let me just put on my parachute & my own kids' parachutes & jump out before you start, OK? I don't want to take part in this because I don't believe in violence & I am afraid for my own safety & that of my family."

"Can we wait until the in-flight movie is over? I really don't want to be inconvenienced by this, I must go on with my life."

"Let's wait until we are sure that they really mean us harm, after all we don't want to do anything rash, until we know 100% of the facts."

"Let's just wait & see what happens. They wouldn't be crazy enough to kill themselves, would they?"”

“Today the so called Animals requested the US leave their holy land and stop funding Israel!

What a suprise, they had a reason for what they did!

Now what?

We have committed to a war before we even attemted to look at the cause of the problem.

I would be so happy if Bush would actually give peace a chance, but the good ol boy American public would probably go hang every dark skinned person in the US.”

“Too bad, really. It is just too bad for the whole world that there are people like him.”

“What's really wrong with that is that someone can make pseudo-logic and the "anyone who thinks differently than me must be evil" argument sound rational.”

“I heard someone make a point on the radio today about burning the flag (as some protesters are). "When you burn the flag, you are essentially destroying the very right you have to burn the flag. In which case, since you want to destroy the American Ideal, you forgo all the rights associated with being a member."

Interesting.”

“Those of you who disagree with the article posted by Violin, what specific points do you believe are incorrect? It's not much of an argument to say that there should not be "people like him" in the world. And where is the "pseudo-logic"?”

“I read that piece last night on the editorial page of our newspaper. I disagree with most of his logic. For instance:

"to be a pacifist in this instance is to accept and, in practice, support this outcome... That is the pacifists? position, and it is evil."

It IS evil when viewed that way. He twists his pseudologic around to somehow get to the point where "if you're not with us, you're against us!" He uses a very broad brush to paint all pacifists. Do you know of anyone who supports what the terrorists did? Anyone who would like to see something like that happen again? There is a difference between carpet bombing a nation into the stone age (when in fact they are still IN the stone age) and bringing a criminal and his henchmen to justice.”

“Here is the "pseudologic" from the article:

"An essentially identical logic obtains now. Organized terrorist groups have attacked America. These groups wish the Americans to not fight. The American pacifists wish the Americans to not fight. If the Americans do not fight, the terrorists will attack America again. And now we know such attacks can kill many thousands of Americans. The American pacifists, therefore, are on the side of future mass murders of Americans. They are objectively pro-terrorist."

The writer said "fight" not "carpet bomb a nation into the stone age." I believe his point is that if we do not utilize our resources to support the US in the "fight," and instead we use them to promote "non-action and passiveness", this ultimately helps the terrorists' cause. What is your alternative suggestion to the US taking military action?”

“I'm not sure Bin Laden and his henchmen hope we won't fight, I think they hope we'll invade (or start indiscrimnate bombing of) a Muslim country so they can rally the fanatic followers to their cause. I do not suggest we not take military action, but I do suggest we carefully choose our targets and not make this a "crusade". Bush is doing the right thing by strengthening alliances and rallying world leaders to our side. In this sense, if countries are not with us in the fight against terrorism, then they are against us...and the rest of the world.”

“I think it is illogical to state that "These groups wish the Americans to not fight"

I think that is very likely that the terrorists hope for us to over-react and turn a good percentage of the world against us.

Action is clearly called for as I don't wish to see what is planned as an encore but over-reaction could be more dangerous.”