Non-action and passiveness!

“I agree with the most recent posts from Violin & kleetn. Great care should be taken in this volatile part of the world. I think there are still some TT'ers who are against any military action & I would like to hear from them if they have viable alternative suggestions.”

“I'll answer that one.

You will notice that GW hasn't rushed right in. I approve. He's started out right, first negotiations, freezing of terrorist money, and lastly trying to build a coalition of support. Before he considers any sort of military strikes he'd better consider some changes to foreign policy ie. the Israel/Palestine issue etc. Having some happier Arab and Islamic nations will help. These policy changes had better be permanent. Remove American troops from Saudi.

Eventually, inevitably some sort of military response will have to be taken. American troops in Pakistan is a bad idea. It's too destablizing for Pakistan and provides openings for our troops to be attacked by Pakastani and Afghani fundamentalists (Most Pakistani's don't want us there anyways). India has offered us their country as a base, so let's use it. Since Afghanistan is is virtually impossible to assault without a high cost in US lives (not to mention innocent Afghani's) an invasion is not a good idea. I think insertion of special ops teams against specific small targets and intelligence gathering followed up by small and quick surgical night strikes are the most likely options for success. Fight like Afghani's, attack and run. Isolate Taliban and terrorist groups into seaking areas of strength and fortification. Use sattelite intel to locate fortified areas (ie. compounds with a some armed guards and a few Toyota pickups parked outside) and take them out at night either by bombing them or by a quick in and out strikes with helicopter troops.

Send aid to the Northern Coalition in Afghanistan. Drop food and care packages down on the populated areas of Afganistan, no reason for the Taliban to be the only well fed people in the country.

When and if some terrorists are caught, hand them over to a country like Saudi to deal with them. Saudi will be far more brutal and punishment delivered by an Arab/Islamic nation will lesson the chances of martyrs.

How's that for a start?”

“You're a regular Jesse Helms!”

“My problem w/ the article is what skulaz pointed out. This guy is promoting the idea that anyone who doesn't think or act like the rest of the crowd is evil. America is partly built on the ideal that we are each free to be ourselves and think for ourselves and feel safe to express those thoughts. What HE is promoting is Un-American. He is selling the idea (and being pretty convincing about it) that if you don't support war than you ARE the enemy and should be (at the very least) shunned. Also, what kleetn said is true. I do not support what the terrorists did, I don't want to see it done again and action should be taken . . . against those who planned and executed the crime.”

“Yep, the author shows typical two dimensional thinking all too common amongst people howling for war.

Perhaps, there are a few of us which fall in the grey area between the two. We're the think before we act people.”

“Gear Slut, somewhere in your misguided thinking, I think you are right about our involvement between Israel and Palestine. This situation is rarely brought up on the news as being our real problem.”

“LH - at least one of us is capable of thought. What do you have in mind for a Israel/Palestine settlement? I shudder to think what a person like you will come up with.”

“Darn! I wrote up a point by point list of why that article was one of the worst (meaning destructive and stupid) things that I have read. I may try to do the list again...

However, I have taken up Omaha Hikers challenge (even though I am not against a military solution) and am starting a thread listing what I think might be emerging as a sane plan. I'll call it "Could this be the plan?"”

“Gear Slut, I have no ideas about the Israelis & the Palestinians fighting. I just know it will never end since they are fighting over religious land. I don't know enough about the background of all this fighting. Whose land has it been over the decades? Who has the rights to the land? I know this goes back a long time. I don't know what the U.S. should do. I don't have enough information to venture to make that kind of judgement.”

“The AP reports that Jesse Jackson has received an invitation from the Taliban to lead a "peace delegation" to the region.

RUN, JESSE, RUN! Bush is gonna start bombing as soon as your plane lands!”

“I'll vote for Gear Slut's plan. In fact, I'll vote for Gear Slut, for president. Some problems that Israel causes will have to change, and we should insist on it. If a Palestinian holds a deed for land or a house that he fled in 1948, he can't get it back. Yet if a Jew had property confiscatted in Germany in WWII, he can get it back. Isn't this a double standard? If shots are fired from a Palestinian house, civilian houses get bulldozed. Does the same thing happen when a Jewish settler fires at Palestinian? New Jewish settlements spring up further and further in Palestinian land, next to Palestinian settlements. I'm not saying the Palestinians are great folks, either. In a way they are the perfect neighbors for each other. The northern Irish should move into the area, and we'd have some real action!”

“Hey... I am big on saying that US policy is biased against he Palestinians.... but to compare the situation of the Jews after the Holocaust to the situation of Palestinian Arabs after the war in 1949 is beyond unfair.”

“So why can't they get their land back?”

“One cruel act does not justify another.”

“It's not so much getting their land back. Israel is a fact of life now, however, it's time for them to stop taking the land they promise to the Palistinians and putting settlements on it. If they could bulldose their settlements and move out of the Sinai when they gave it back to Egypt, they can do the same in Palestine. Our problem is that pro-Israel lobbiests have too much power in Washington. IMHO, Israel isn't worth it. How many Arab states are there and how many Jewish states? You do the math.”

“Fuzzy math?

To me it boils down to this...food. I am not big on kosher cuisine,however I love arabic chow. North or South Korea...neither,kimchee makes me sick,Russia or Germany...I hate borscht. Mexico or Canada...hello burrito!!!! Its really not hard when you break it down to basic terms.”

“I love matzo ball soup.

As I understood it, the Israelites left their land to wander. I think they became Nomads. Then wanted the land back when they returned. Now, don't quote me on this. There may be much more to it.”

“lol birch! Finally somebody sez something that makes sense

lavash-mmmmmmm

also pita bread & hummus (what is hummus anyway?)”

“Biz, hummus is one of my favorite trail foods though now I'm getting a little tired of it. It's chic peas (garbanzo beans) that you put in a blender with tehini sauce (sesame paste), salt/pepper and lemon. You could spice it up with anything like sauteed garlic or peppers etc. You grind it to a paste, like the consistancy of farina.

Another good thing is falafels. Those are balls made of chic peas that are fried, put in pita pockets with lettuce, tomato and a creamy tehini sauce.”

“LS-

The Jews didn't wander off. They kept getting gathered up and hauled off. I do think the Jews are unfare to the Palistinain people but the sad truth is the PLO (a terrorist organization) is their spokesman. A Jew from America that has never seen Israel can move there and set house in a couple weeks. A Palistinian born there has to wait, and wait, and wait... It's all a two way struggle though. Even for Israel's faults I'd never raise a finger against them.”

“I would say that military strategy would dictate that we stay good friends with Israel. Their fighter pilots are the best in the world.
Also, we should try to give the Palestinians the fairest deal possible. I do think that would clear up many of our problems in the Middle East.”

“Nigal, thanks for the info.”

“A Statement from Philadelphia Yearly Meeting, the American Friends Service Committee, Friends General Conference and Friends World Committee for Consultation

Philadelphia, PA - Now that the initial shock of the September 11 terrorist attacks have passed, deep grief and profound anger have set in for many of us. Now the critical questions that confront us all are several: How can we best comfort those who mourn? How can we begin to heal some of the wounds to all of our souls as well as our bodies? How can we see that
justice is really done? How can we build bridges of understanding and reconciliation among all people so that there is no more harm done and no more hatred sown? How can we begin anew the work of creating a world where there can really be peace, addressing the injustice and despair which are so often the seeds of violence, so there will be no more victims?

These are the tasks to which a God of love calls all members of the human family. How will we respond?

As organizations of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) and people of faith we find ourselves challenged to continue to respond to the tragic and horrific events of September 11. Indeed, we feel called - and believe all people of good will are called now - to respond to these events and the hurts they have caused in ways that are deeper and more sustained than our initial shock and grief may have allowed. In particular, we believe the work of building a different and better world, one in which all persons are seen as sacred because we are all children of God, one where this kind of act would not happen again, is the calling of all of us who worship a God
of truth, grace and mercy.

To our dismay, we have heard people in the highest levels of our government calling for retribution rather than justice. To our astonishment we hear the talk of war and plans for war in which our nation in turn would cause the death of innocents - the sin which so appalled us - asserting this will somehow put things right. To our sorrow, we have seen people from many walks of life in our own communities striking out in their anger against other people in our communities just because of the faith they profess, the color of their skin or the country of their origin.

We say with certainty that these statements, plans and actions will notlead us to healing, justice or peace; and we pray they will cease.

In contrast, we commit ourselves, to reach out to all who have been injuredin any way by the events of the past week; and to offering comfort, solace, and practical support in any way we can. We commit ourselves to reach out to those whose backgrounds, cultures and faith may be different than our own; and to listen and learn, in hopes of building the foundations of understanding and respect on which peace can be built. We support the prosecution of those who perpetrated this horrendous crime; and commit ourselves to the achievement of justice under law and due process, including international law.

Finally we commit ourselves to praying and working for righteousness and reconciliation, as the God of Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammed has taught us, so that there may be no more victims of hate and terror anywhere.



The American Friends Service Committee is a Quaker organization that includes people of various faiths who are committed to social justice, peace and humanitarian service. Its work is based on the belief in the worth of every person and faith in the power of love to overcome violence and injustice.”

“There was a clerk in a small town store in Georgia. One day, a man entered the store and began filling a shopping cart with items.

This man was so distinctive in that he could have been the official spokesperson for Quaker Oats. He was dressed in black, very tall and had that hat just like the Quaker Oats guy.

The clerk had never seen a Quaker before, let alone talked to one. When the man reached the counter with his items the clerk could hardly contain himself. "Hey, are you a Quaker"? he asked.

"Yes," the tall man said.

"No joke??!!" asked the clerk, "You're a real Quaker?"

The man, looking a little perturbed, said, "Yes, I am a real Quaker."

"Wow!" the young clerk said, "I never seen a real Quaker before. Would you say something in Quaker talk for me?" asked the clerk.

The tall man ignored this request and waited for his merchandise to be tallied up.

As clerk finished ringing up the sale he said, "C'mon mister, say something in Quaker talk?"

The man finally leaned over the counter in a gesture of secrecy.

The clerk leaned forward in order to hear the quiet reply.

The man said, "Screw thee."”

“LOL Militiaboy! Good one!

An American tourist was visiting Northern Ireland. Late one night, returning to his hotel from a pub along a dar street, he was accosted by a masked man with a large knife.

The masked man gruffly asked the tourist "Catholic or Protestant?".

The tourist thought for a moment and replied, "Jewish!"

The masked man exclaimed "Wow! I must be the luckiest Arab in Belfast tonight!"”

“Over the years, people I´ve met have often asked me what I´m working on, and I´ve usually replied that the main thing was a book about Dresden.

I said that to Harrison Starr, the movie-maker, one time, and he raised his eyebrows and inquired, "Is it an anti-war book?"

"Yes," I said. "I guess."

"You know what I say to people when I hear they´re writing anti-war books?"

"No. What do you say, Harrison Starr?"

"I say, ´Why don´t you write an anti-glacier book instead?´"

What he meant, of course, was that there would always be wars, that they were as easy to stop as glaciers. I believe that, too.

- Kurt Vonnegut”

“How to Explain to Pacifists Why We Need to Retaliate

What to do if you happen upon a peace rally by stupid naive hemp-shirt-wearing college idiots, to teach them why force is sometimes needed:

1) Approach dumb rich ignorant student talking about 'peace' and saying there should be, 'no retaliation.'

2) Engage in brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate.

3) When he says 'No,' ask, 'Why not?'

4) Wait until he says something to the effect of, 'Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence.'

5) When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.

6) When he gets back up to up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, 'be awful and he should not cause more violence.'

7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence.

8) Punch him in the face again, harder this time.


Repeat steps 5 through 8 until they understand that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.”

“Just an obsevation, but that didn't work on Ghandi.”

“Unfortunately, Ghandi was asassinated on his way to prayer in November, 1948.”

“More stupidity from LH. Some people just don't learn. See what drugs and watching sitcoms on TV does to your brain, it turns you into a Neanderthal with no brains. If you want violent gratification, go and watch some WWF wrestling or just go and sit on your front porch and watch what's happening in the daily life of your trailer park LH.”

“Lipstick, that was funny....a good defense is a good offense. I agree with ya.”

“Good one LH. Gear slut, maybe you can buy a sense of humor.”

“LH, that's a good one.... maybe ya ought to try it on Gear Slut.”

“Humor? There was humor in that posting? Must have been too low brow for me.”

“Yeah. This WTC thing is a real kneeslapper. NOT.”

“Here's a little humor for you.
Come to a peace rally in my neck ot the woods and try punching some, (not all), of these young demonstrators in the mouth. You had better get the job done with the first hit, because they understand the difference between asking for rightful justice in the Middle East and an idiot who wants to fight.”

“Well GS, you're the pacifist, how many times can someone pop you in the head before you retaliate? If you retaliate, then you're really not a pacifist are you?

So which is it Mr. Hypocrite or is that Mizz Hypocrite????????????”

“Too bad we can't all be as high brow as Gear Slut.

His name just oozes class and dignity. ”

“A good question is how many times would an idiot punch somebody in the mouth who was not threatening them?”

“There is a law against assault and perhaps some time in jail for behaving like a dim witted thug. Maybe you can continue to behave like an ignorant twit, that is until someone makes you their girlfrind in there.”

“Did Dundadan say that his local peaceniks are rowdy brawlers? That seems odd.”

“The way I see it is:

Either your with the U.S.A. or your with the Taliban”

“Hmmmm... Does that mean I can punch Gear Slut in his high brow?”

“I think it does!”

“You can if you have the desire to be someone's girlfriend in jail.

Apparently you do.”

“Also, something has to be pretty darn crude and stupid for someone named "Gear Slut" to find as low brow.

As for my nickname,

"A rose which is called by any other name, would smell as sweet."”

“Gear Slut isn't a person that can be spoken with. I always knew this "person" is a troll/flamer, because he referenced things I've said in the past before he was even on this site. He's obviously someone from tt that has an additional name to hide behind.

He has shown his cowardice by using a false name. I would not expect a person of this caliber to supportive to the United States where bravery is needed now to bring terrorists to justice or towards any other cause that will protect this country, but he will enjoy the benefits of the freedom that our service people will bring us through their brave actions and heroic deaths.”

“Luckily LH isn't likely to be in any position to be anyone's judge.

I was a lurker long before I started posting Einstein.”

“What country is GearSlut living in? We don't send people to prison for breaking noses.

A few hours in County maybe but...

What a puss.”

“A few hours in the county lockup to deflower you is all it would take. Trouble is, would that satisfy you or would you need more?”