Sept 23 that means its time for a gear t hread

“Friday night started my Order of the Arrow?s Ordeal Weekend. One of the thing that a boy scout must do to be a part of the OA is spend a nigh out in the woods alone. Or in my case 50 feet from another scout, I couldn?t speak to the other scouts because that?s one of the requirements too. In the list of what to bring only included a ground cloth and sleeping bag for night shelter. I, as directed brought my largest tarp, not a ground cloth and used it as a ground cloth, along with my second time out in the woods TNF cats meow. The Ordeal candidates where not aloud to set up the tarp/ground cloth in a shelter type of setup, this meant that if it was to rain I would be forced to become a burrito with my tarp. I started of the night in the burrito method with a tarp. For those of you who don?t know it I will explain it at the bottom of this post. I soon thought to my self that this will cause serious moister to form. So I reverted to just spreading out my tarp and lying on top of it in my bag. ?In the middle of nigh, I was walking in my sleep..? oops, too much Billy Joel. In the middle of the night I woke up to find moister on the top of my sleeping bag and underneath it, but no moister on the inside. I though about rain but then looked at my tarp and to find that where my bag wasn?t there was no moister. That eliminated due and rain. So I think to my self I need to keep this bag dry, this is only the second outing with it, I don?t want to wreck it now. I soon came to the conclusion of just go back to sleep and deal with it in the morning witch I did my leaving it open on a table in a cabin. However the entire day I thought how did this happen and what can I do to stop it the next time, because I am always trying to lighten the pack and by taking a tarp and not a tent is one of them. I also thought that maybe if I had a mattress I wouldn?t have had this problem, but as most of you know I?m anti air mattress. Any ideas of what caused this problem, and how to fight it?


The Tarp Trekker?s Burrito: Lay out your trap to its full capacity. Lie down on one side in your sleeping bag. Grab the corner and roll to the other side.”

“dew.

hang it to dry, somewhere.”

“I don't think it was dew”

“It's moisture from body vapor that seeped through the sleeping bag and condensed on the outer fabric of the bag. I saw this happen before on a few occasions. If you use a pad that isn't full length more moisture will condense between the bag and tent floor or it your case the ground sheet.”

“Let me see if I have this right. The moisture was inside the tarp, not on the outside of it right? And only where the bag was touching the tarp, right?”

“Ditto what RichB said. I guess he posted while I was typing.”

“My guess is that condensation formed on the outside of your bag from moisture in the air, similar to dew forming. That explains the moisture on the top.

As for the bottom, the tarp was most likely cooler than your body temperature, shus it formed condination when the moist, warm air from your body came into contact with the cooler tarp material. Since you were laying on top of this, it was soaked into the bag because your body weight is compressing the insualtion under your body.

I would guess you were hiking in cooler mountain weather that was fairly humid from the discription of what happened.

How to cure it? For the moisture on top of your bag, try using your tapr in a trapeziod set up to retain some body heat inside the tarp. There will most likely be some condensation inside the tarp, but it will form on the tarp which is cooler, and not on your bag. For under your bag, use your bag as a blanket and sleep directly on a closed cell foam pad.”

“Thats right”

“For the trapezoid pitch I mentioned, go here:
http://sgtr0ck.tripod.com/gear/tarp.html”

“SGT, is that a sil tarp?”

“I did the tarp burrito thing on the Blood Mountain trip last season. Rad thought I was dead the next morning.”

“I don't think I will have to sleep with out shelter again, and I don't use foam pads eather”

“dude had ICE on his head!!!!”

“he must have been chillin'”

“chilli burrito”

“No that wasn't a sil tarp, it was a cheap Wal-Mart 8'x10' tarp I use when Tarping in the Army. If I were to make a tarp, most likely I'd do a square 10'x10' sil with tye outs instead of grommets in the darkest color I could find.”

“don't they give you gas?”

“Why don't you like to use a pad? Not just for comfort but to insulate you from the ground when it's cold.
I just got a 3/4 length Z-Rest and it's awesome.”

“chilli buritos that is not cheap walmart tarps”

“its extra weight”

“not much.”

“A closed cell foam pad is less that 1/2 a pound.”

“A closed cell foam pad is bulky”

“Fine. When you get a little older & you realize the ground feels harder and your not sleeping as well and your sore the next day, then you can go buy one. If you don't need or want one now, we're not gonna make ya get one.”

“Oh, what does that say about me? I just started using one last year. Does that mean I'm old?”

“They can be bulky, but they will extend the range of your sleeping bag and make you a little extra comfy. Besides weighing little, they strap easily to the OUTSIDE of your pack.”

“I'm 36 and I've been using one for 12 years now.”

“Ok, I don't feel so bad now ¦)”

“How old are you?”

“34, been using one for 16 years. It was the Army that got me using them.”

“SGT, your web page is nice. alot of good stuff there.

Anyone who hasn't visited it should.”

“I'm 33 for another 2 weeks.”

“Ice Tea is still a kid. He's got several more years before he notices rocks & roots are hard and it's tough to get a good nights sleep on them.”

“Another one in the 30 something club.”

“¦)”

“seems to be many of us. me and my wife 35 & 34”

“For the record I'm researching for the lightest most compactable pad I can find.

So far I have Thermorest's Ultra light 3/4 in the lead, but I haven't checked Mountains hardware's stuff yet”

“I know I need to have a pad in the winter, that I wont argue. It is a nesesity other wise your body is heating the ground an not you all night long. I allso own a T rest origainal, but that never leaves my T -rest chair forthat U keep in the living room”

“I use a coleman corrogated foam pad that I got at Kmart for 5 bucks. Other than the fact that my new dog chewed a corner off it, it has been the best one I've tried so far. And that icludes a thermarest.”

“Look at the Mt Washington pad. I trimmed mine down to 2/3 length and it weighs only 5.6 ounces now.”

“I'm impressed with the Z-Rest. Light, compact, and folds up in a flash. No rolling.”

“BTW, sort of off subject, but isn't it cool to see an actual hiking related thread get 40+ posts in less than an hour for a change.”

“but the Z is very bulky, I've seen it before”

“Oh yah, you can say that again SGT!!!”

“i like my full length guidelight, but i will get the 3/4 ultralight, when this one dies.”

“Yes it is a good thing R0ck.

If any one knows of an airmattres that weight less then 16 oz, please tell me.”

“the mountain hardware is not the lightest nor will it compact as much. it is not inflatable (no worry of leaks) and incorporates two types of foam (open and closed cell) to allow for insulating and comfort values. all this wrapped in a nice nylon cover with a pocket inside to stuff your fleece in for a pillow. i'll give a report and opinion when i get back next weekend.”

“The 3/4 Z-rest ain't bulky.”

“Yep, This has been nice to actually discuss gear on TT. Who woulda thunk it. LOL”

“Welcome to the OA, I'm Brotherhood myself. The scouts will give you many opportunities to learn , if you want to. It was dew in a way and you were the sourse of dampness, the old single wall nylon tents had this happen too( anyone else remember them?).a favorite prank with them was to slap the outside of the tent in sub-freezing weather, it'd start a snowstorm inside, there was that much that condensed to the tent roof and walls! Our troop had an advantage in having access to used 6 mil clear poly sheeting and 1/2 inch ensolite(closed cell foam)from packing materials at one of the father's work. we camped in all kinds of conditions and it worked out better in winter than tents did, especially if you had plenty of folks, it was shirtsleeve temps inside, but subzero out. The key thing was to use the pads full length under you, and to vent the poly to lose moisture, but not heat. we'd put one sheet under us, with the outside edges wrapped up and on our packs to provide a bathtub floor, and then suspend the second sheet above, just outside the first, tucked under on the upwind sides, and open low on the downwind side. we pulled the sides tight with cinches made by putting small pebbles in pockets in the plastic, and tying slipnots around them like a noose, and then a few wraps and a tie off to secure it, kite string was used. We once were on Mt. Chocura in the whites, and couldn't get in Liberty cabin. we set up nearby and did better than those inside so I guess they aren't so bad.”