“Faulking?

hmm...”

“Hey, it would have got sensored, tilt”

“Dang spock! You were on a pretty good roll there until ya went with the whole "Turbin wearing America of the near future" stuff. It went right over the edge at that point. Man, I hate it when a good trollin' gets pushed into absurdity . It's a waste of a good troll. It was funny though and I don't think you directly insulted anyone so that's a good sign.”

“Wow, Spock you've got a weird view on this. Yes we Americans are spoiled brats, but we didn't deserve the WTC deal. Let's just go around killing anyone we want, just because they don't have what we've got, freedom of speech, religion, etc. I REALLY doubt that the Arabs will be taking over, that's where your totally wrong. I agree with Kleetn and Briar Rabbit. That's my thought on this whole mess.”

“Towndawg --

From my perspective, ALL of religion is mythology. Made up by folks to provide some answers, some comfort in understanding the universe and their place in it.

No matter whether it be greco roman myths with Zeus and the patheon from Olympus, Judisism and its missing messiah, Islam, christianity, paganism. Its all just made up hu-ju-bu-ju so that folks can feel okay.

Many of these mythologies are written down in book form. The bible, the koran, penthouse forum etc etc.

It has always made me NUTS that otherwise well meaning people can wave THEIR particular book, full of their particular made up myths over their heads and proclaim . . ."my myth is the ONLY myth. I am right. You are wrong. When I die, I am going to (insert name of heaven-like afterlife) and you are going to (insert name of hell-like afterlife).

I think that people who believe this stuff are utter morons.

That they then compound this idiocy by waging war and killing in the name of their particular myth is tragic, ignorant and sad. That the Taliban and others treat women as they do, in the name of religious purity is bizaar, tragic, ignorant and sad.

Of course (not to equate apples and oranges). . . the catholics forbid the use of birth control. In a barbaric and non-sensical fashion their missionaries in africa and other desperately poor countries burdened by population issues toe the party line and forbid use of birth control. Heck, religious zealots in the US have managed to have federal funding withheld from organizations trying to assist with overpopulation, family planning, AIDS awareness issues in these same desperately poor countries.

All in the name of made up mythology.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

He (and its always a HE isn't it??) who can control the religious message, controls the POWER. And in the end . . .it is really about power. The scum suckers in Afghanistan are using their myth as a club to oppress and supress.

They hate us because we make a target of convenience. We support israel, a religious (no coincidence) state created to assuage Western feelings of guilt after the holocaust (wait . . . there's religion again). The eradication of the Palestien state (islam, another mythology) to create Israel has given the radical islamics a target on which to hang all of their troubles.


ugh . . .nasty nasty.

Again . . .it makes me nuts that people kill and go to war and hate all in the name of defendng their particular brand of made up bulls-it mythology. Christians, Jews and Muslims alike. Bunch of f-ing idiots.


Of course . . .that's just my opinion . . .”

“?We need to round those 'turds up quickly.....a that means that we as Americans must do our best to remain optimistic in these new times and to keep a WATCHFUL EYE on everyone/thing that is suspicious in nature.?

Maybe we can start keeping a files on everyone we know keeping an eagle?s eye out for any sympathetic thoughts/ideas or any suspicious or threatening behavior. & send my reports to the Government Secrete Police that way anyone who is not a pure blooded American by some gray definition will be locked up so that he/she can?t spread his/her infected ideas & beliefs. That way any opportunist with enough political pull can lock up any potential threats to his or her political power oh & national security too.

I saw my neighbor taking the trash out last night a 6:04pm he never took it out early before, he usually takes the trash out at 6:23. I think his is up to something, that brown skin A-rab or Mexican I doesn?t matter he has a beard & that?s enough evidence of his treachery for me. We should make them were badges so that we can Identify them & keep a close eye on them every where they go.

We need to pry all the guns out of every Americans hand too in order to prevent any other Oklahoma or JFK disasters from recurring. After all that we should round up all those stinky towel heads ?turds? that haven yet the smarts to get out of America & set them up in work camps & put them to work & the ones that can?t work we can just put them in some gassy showers & waste their useless asses.

I?m with you BR! Grab you swastika flags & Luger(SP) pistols. It is time for the supreme race to reclaim the earth, Time for the Third Reich!

Spock is right in some way?s. If you look at Israel?s history & it?s harsh treatment of the Palestinian people how dose that differ from how the Nazi?s treated the Jews? Sure the ? ?collateral damage? numbers are smaller but the tactics & principles are very much the same. Why is Israel?s humanitarian crimes justified & hitters not? Americas support of Israel is a monument to our hypocrisy. The problem is we made a big mess out of the middle east & now we have to deal with the mess we made Like it or not. All I have to say is thanks dad.”

“"The most unforgivable thing about intolerance is, by its inherent assumption that one group, belief or lifestyle is superior to another, it fails to take into account the ultimate truth which binds us all, black and white, gay and straight, Republican and Democrat, Arab and Israeli, Hindu and Muslim, Catholic and Protestant, Serb and Croat, Hutu and Tutsi: the fact that, at the end of the day, we are all equal pains-in-the-ass, in the eyes of the Lord."

- Dennis Miller”

“Good one lee I am with you on that last one (without the sarcastic tone) But Unfortunately 90% of the world will disagree with you because they ?know they are right?. Some one once told me that ?peace is more important than being right & that if one should give way to the other peace should always prevail? to bad things don?t really work that way.”

“I know I could count on you guys!”

“"Americans complains about "innocent" people being killed in the WTC. Why weren't Americans complaining about thousands of innocent children being killed by American sanctions on Iraq the past 10 years. Why weren't Americans complaining about 100,000 innocent Japanese women and children killed by weapons of mass destruction?"
--Spock

Hey Spock, it's called a war, and the situations that you refer to are wars that we did not start, we just finished them. Get a clue. I am just glad I don't have to hike through forests as thick as your skull.”

“If I'm not mistaken, Iraq is under sanctions for refusing to allow us to inspect facilities suspected of being engaged in the research/manufacture of biological & chemical weapons. But I guess Saddam shares no responsibility for the deaths of Iraqi children, it's all our fault. And as far as Israel & Palestine are concerned, what is Israel supposed to do when some wacko suicide bomber kills a bunch of teenagers in a disco or pizza joint? Just ignore the problem & hope it goes away? The so-called Islamic "schools" in many Middle Eastern countries teach little besides the Koran, and glorify martyrdom, thus insuring an almost unending supply of youthful terrorist wannabe's. What about this, Spock? Is it OK for Middle Eastern countries to teach children to hate & destroy? Or is it your view that only white Europeans can be guilty of hate, prejudice, and intolerance?”

“"But I guess Saddam shares no responsibility for the deaths of Iraqi children"

Now, now! That whole mustard gas incident where he gassed his own citizens was a lie. He's a great guy! How many palaces does he have while his people starve? At least Dubya just has the White House and Compound W.”

“What about Preparation H?
Maybe that's where they've got Cheney stashed.

Oma-
Its true about some of those Arabs teaching their kids to hate.
But we ought to find ways to help cool them off.
..................maybe New Preparation H Soothing Gel!”

“At a time like this some wisdom from Salman Rushdie would be welcome.”

“Whoa, me & Tom T agree on somethin'? What's this world coming to? LOL re: the Compound W & Preparation H!”

“The Kinison routine quoted earlier was a blast. Something about not sending food, send them a "f***ing Samsonite". Loved that guy!”

“Lee, I understand your frustration with how human nature causes people to twist religion for their own purposes. But religion is not the opiate of the masses. It stirs them, not placates them. In my religion, it is called spiritual warfare. The evil in nature can manipulate people to do horrendous things in the name of "God", and the biblical prophets have warned people to be careful, aware, alert to this constant effort to deceive. That this deception succeeds more often than not, doesn't mean that God is a myth. You have no relationship with God, but you can't prove that all other people experience the same reality as you.”

“?You wanna help these people? Stop sending them food. Don?t send them another bite. Instead, send ?em ME. ?Ya see this dumbs@#t? Yeah, that?s sand. Did you know nothing grows in this sh#t? Come on! Pack your bags, pack your wife and kids! We?ll take you to where the food is! OHHH OHHHH!? You wanna help these people? You wanna help them? Send ?em U-Hauls!?

Sammy was funny.”

“Interesting view, Lee. It has pretty much always been about religion, hasn't it? The Inquisition, the splitting up of faiths........ many times is SO IRONICALLY takes violence to have a Holy War. SHEESH!!

Briar Rabbit, I have had the same thoughts as you. That perhaps people now in America, who enjoy our freedom, yet despise it at the same time, will provide their own little acts of terrorism.

However, there is no way you can go "rounding up" people. We are like "them" then.

Such a dilemma we have!”

“Forget the Samsonite.
Send them Rush Limbaugh.
That fool can talk them to death without hearing their complaints.
He will surely mistake their wildly enthusiastic pleadings for approval and keep it up until they lose their minds.”

“partly because our non-friend, saudi arabia, funds fanatical schools which in turn churn out more fanatics. i guess they do this to please the hardliners so the royal family can stay in power. we should shoot a missle up king faud's ass. with friends like these who needs enemies. well, what the hell do i know, i'm just happy to be in the u s of a.”

“King Faud's A$$, huh?

Wasn't there a big fat perverted character in Frank Herbert's "Dune" who lived like a Saudi Prince?
Harkonen or something........
His nephew had a name similar to Faud.
They, like the Saudi's, made obscene profits from a substance(The Spice) that, like oil, the known universe could not live without.”

“when cussing, is it more proper to use $$$?”

“When cussing its far more proper to just let it go, but we are constrained by some sense of propriety here.........in kindergarten.”

“Baron Harkonen's nephew Feyad Rautha or some such, Tom. I don't have the book on me. The deeper meaning was all about drug addiction.

Bwaaaaaahahahah, sorry I couldn't keep a straight face that long.


You know, it's even sad to hear the angry people who blame religion for the world's woes. Can't we all just get along?”

“"Hey Spock, it's called a war, and the situations that you refer to are wars that we did not start, we just finished them." -
Buddha Bear
10/9/01

BB, the USA joined the war when Japan attacked - true. Does that give the USA the right to commit the war crime of mass murder? USA set the precedent for terrorism with those A-Bombs.

G.W. is feeding propaganda to you when he says the attack on the WTC was when "they" started the war. This "war" has been going on for some time. Question is: When did it really and truly start, and WHO started it? An arguement can be made that America started it.”

“Do you have a reasoned, intelligent argument on how the US "started" this war, Spock?”

“Spock -

By the same logic, you could argue that this war started with the decline of the Ottoman empire after the death of Suleyman and the rise of western civilization.

I don't think it is propaganda to say that the US did not consider themselves to be at war before Sept. 11th.”

“Really, Violin? The attack by bin Laden on the USS Cole was not war? The WTC bombing by bin Laden in '93 was war, or terrorism? What's the difference between WTC 93 and WTC 01? The bin Laden attacks on US embassies in Africa were not war? Clinton's cruise missile attacks against bin Laden was what exactly?

Arclite, maybe this was started with the unconditional US support of Israel. Israel/USA has been waging terrorism agains innocent Palestinians for some time. Maybe it started with the US installation of the Shah of Iran and all the resentment that created in the Arab world. Maybe the war started when WE supplied Bin Laden with weapons in the Afghan war, and WE created the monster that turned on us. Was that war ever declared ended? I don't think so.

Nigal, don't take the wearing turbins comment so literally. Take it figuratively. It's not so hard to imagine that the US could be kissing Arab @ss in the not too distant future. Everything the US does in the middle east only continues to feed Arab resentment of us...it grows more every day. Consider that the populace of Saudi Arabia resents its oppressive government which is supported and protected by the USA. Now consider that that it is easily possible for the Saudi Royal kingdom to be ousted by coup, and replaced by another radical fundamentalist regime opposed to the US. Kuwait would fall like a domino. Let me tell you, the oil supply would be at the mercy of all these countries...radical Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran. It would be easy for them to turn off the taps and America would be brought down to its knees.”

“Spock you still need to get a clue. I, for one, do not think those A-bombs were such a bad thing. My grandfather and uncle were slated to be part of the invasion force. Which means that they would likely been part of the casulties. I was fortunate to spend plenty of good time with them. Check the real history of the events, not the revisionist junk.

The Japanese forcibly took over sovereign nations and brutalized the inhabitants. They would enlist the ladies as "comfort girls", and practice beheadings on the men (it was a "trophy shot" to remove the head in one clean cut). They would take a baby from it's mother's arms and toss it in the air. They soldiers would vie for position to catch the baby on their bayonets. There is the Bataan death march.... I could go on and on, but really, do I have to?

The point is, the Japanese had vowed to fight to the last man, they were flying their planes into our warships, all the while continuing to manufacture weapons of war. We had sent huge air armadas over their country and bombed their manufacturing capability, and were basically, just kicking their butts. They were so evil, so brutal, that they had to be overthrown. The war would have lingered for at least another year, and involved over a million American casulities, as well as uncounted millions of Japanese dead. Who, in their right mind, would want that?

Pilots of those bombing raids have said that Nagasaki and Hiroshima looked no different than other Japanese cities after a mass bombing raid. The big difference was that it was a single bomb doing what an armada used to be needed for. Yes, there was some nuclear radiation. A couple of generations have grown in those cities... If the cumulative residual problems are as bad as some fear, why do those cities now thrive?? I'm not a fan of radiation, but I think it's not nearly as bad as Anti-nukes exclaim.

Now you are asking about the USA comitting mass murder. I ask you about the mass murder the Japanes committed? Yes we went to war against them, and killed a good many of them. For a police man to catch a speeder, they must speed. How can we stop a brutal, murderous nation, without killing a good many of them.

IMO, the bombs saved many lives, on both sides. They would not quit, we made them quit. God bless the USA!”

“How can we stop a brutal, murderous nation, without killing a good many of them....

God bless the ____!

- Uphill Klimber, or Osama bin Laden refering to the WTC?”

“So if we support non-representative governments, we are denying them the democracy we take for granted. But if we support the one pseudo-democracy in the region (Israel) we are guilty of terrorism? And if we pull out of this strategically important region and let it descend into bloody tribalism like when the Soviets left Afghanistan and destroy the world economy who exactly wins?”

“?????????????????????????????????”

“Support your assumption, Violin. Give some proof that the region will descend into bloody tribalism if America pulls its troops out of Suadi Arabia and stops supporting Israel so much. What happened to the American ideals of freedom and self-determination? You want iol...you pay for it with your life. At least those Arabs are willing to die for what they believe in...something that used to be an American trait until we turned into a nation of cowards who sit in the recliner and watch tv images of cruise missiles lobbed at the middle east.”

“iol = oil”

“You are saying the region is one big happy family and their governments haven't brutalized their ethnic minorities throughout history?

The Saudi, Jordanian and Egyptian governments aren't sitting on boiling cauldrons of ethnic hatred?

Perhaps the US could have done more to promote democracy in the region and export our ideas, but isn't that exactly what some of the radicals hate so much?”

“The recent experience in the Balkans, when the yoke of authoritarian government was lifted and the horrific battle for power along tribal lines in the Afghanistan region following 1989 are pretty clear examples of what I think would happen if the west were to leave a power vacuum in the middle east.”

“Oh and, "You want iol(sic)...you pay for it with your life. At least those Arabs are willing to die for what they believe in...something that used to be an American trait until we turned into a nation of cowards who sit in the recliner and watch tv images of cruise missiles lobbed at the middle east." is a ridiculous troll. Let's keep this serious.”

“And according to the latest census, only 34% of American households even have a recliner.”

“"Nigal, don't take the wearing turbins comment so literally."

I didn't dude. I thought it was funny. Do you supose in the coming Islamic regiem we'll get t pick our new Muslim names ourselves? Nigal Nigal Acbar Booty Cooty sound pretty cool.”

“Hey Nigal, if you work Osama in there you get extra points!

Something like, Nigal Nigal Osama Acbar Booty Cooty.”

“The original question: "Why do they hate us?"

The answer: "Because we act like arrogant a$$holes"

Any questions?”

“Kindofathinkerbutnotreally, I could respond in volumes, but please back up & read what others have already written. They've already done a good job.

We are an incredibly self-centered culture.

We know very little about other cultures, their history or traditions, and we care even less. Our opinion is "if they're not like us, they're sh!t".

We have our priorities solely on the acquisition of material goods, not on anything of substance. We ridicule those who place their emphasis on spirutual objectives... whether we agree with them or not...whether we know anything about them or not.

We "look the other way" when our leaders are major transgressors against the teachings of the bible or any other holy book, because it is to our monetary benefit. Nearly every decision we make as a society is based upon $.

We / I cannot defend / explain away the deeds of Osuma Bin Laden & his crew, nor am I attempting to do so. Believe it or not, I am a pretty hard-core conservative & have been so for the last 20 years.

BUT...get your head out of your a$$ and realize that these people hate us for some very good reasons...years and years of good reasons.

I recall reading "The Ugly American" in the early 70's & thinking it was very appropo' for the times. I ask that you read it again before you respond, please.”

“Bravo wanderer, nice post.”

“Spock - if we hadn't dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki, how many more Americans AND Japanese would have died in the continuation of WWII?

You haven't responded to my assertion that Saddam is as much (if not more) to blame, than US policy, for the deaths of Iraqi children.

You haven't responded to my question of what the Israelis should do when civilians are killed by Palestinian suicide bombers.

You haven't responded to my statement regarding Islamic "schools" glorifying martyrdom.

Could it be that you have not responded because you have no better answers?

You insist on calling America a "terrorist" nation but what nation in the world has been more altruistic towards other nations, and treated its own people better, than America? I would not say that our foreign policy has been perfect by any means, but if anything, we should have intervened more in promoting democracy, not less.

What is YOUR answer to terrorism and unrest in the Middle East, if not dramatic and authoritative military action, and replacement of the tyrannical governments in that region?”

“quotes from wanderer's post -

"We know very little about other cultures, their history or traditions, and we care even less. Our opinion is "if they're not like us, they're sh!t"."

If they deny their own people basic human rights, such as freedom of speech & religion, and representative government, we ARE better than them. Period.

"We have our priorities solely on the acquisition of material goods, not on anything of substance. We ridicule those who place their emphasis on spirutual objectives... whether we agree with them or not...whether we know anything about them or not."

Like it or not, the reason we prioritize the acquisition of material goods, is that we have no more significant worries, such as being oppressed for our religious or political beliefs, and are free to go about our ignorant acquisitiveness. Would that the rest of the world could be so "ignorant."

"We "look the other way" when our leaders are major transgressors against the teachings of the bible or any other holy book, because it is to our monetary benefit. Nearly every decision we make as a society is based upon $."

Would it be better, if we started punishing people for transgressions against the Bible? I think not...that would be "just like the Taliban."

"BUT...get your head out of your a$$ and realize that these people hate us for some very good reasons...years and years of good reasons."

A big reason that they hate us, is that their governments encourage it, to distract their own poor and oppressed people from hating THEM.

"I recall reading "The Ugly American" in the early 70's & thinking it was very appropo' for the times. I ask that you read it again before you respond, please."

Never read it, never intend to. The title says all that I want to know about that book. Unlike you, I am proud to be an American.”

“I want to stay out of the philosophical/ morale/ religion generated answers.

"They" hate us because:

Our women drive.

Our women are (in most cases), treated as other than chattle.

Our women can determine (for the most part)their future and their fertility.

WE have:

TV
Our own homes.

Freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

Public schools.

Bars.

Liquor stores.

Strip joints.

Sex.

Drugs.

Rock and Roll.

NPR.

Beer.

Pork ribs with barbeque sauce.”

“that last one is the clincher mel”

“......

And flying schools.

What would these moron fanatic kamakazie wanna'be's do without us?

Use rubber bands?”