Coming Out Week

“The town that I grew up in has a gay mayor. When he 'came out' the Morman community had a fit...there was a recall election (just a few weeks ago), we kept him. No, I don't live in San Francisco.

Also, the gay people I work with do not have to hide it, their partners get benefits, it is wonderful. It is a very professional environment. grow up people”

“I remember once at the dinner table at my grandparents house...my grandfather (Pop Pop) was discussing how the meaning of words have changed through time. I remember one of his examples was him saying "We use to be able to say we had a gay time." when we did something fun. He looked at me, winked and said "Ya just can't say that anymore!"”

“I don't think that's true, PepperDog. At least it is not so in my case nor my good friends'. You may want to do some self examination to find out where your ideas about men are coming from. I find self examination helpful to clear out prejudices I have. Don't go down that slippery slope that I have seen so often. I have been treated like I had three eyes by the majority of lesbians that I have met, just for being male.

I am uncomfortable with gay men flirting with me because I find the idea of homosexual sex pretty disgusting. I just have a deep gut-level revulsion much like I do for bestiality or necrophelia. Nobody gets hurt in any of these practices (presumably) and I'm sure that the folks who practice this behavior derive pleasure from it. But no matter how much time I spend around rotting garbage I will never find the smell pleasant. That is a natural fact for some folks and decay is a natural condition. My anatomy is designed to fit female anatomy. There is a basic rule of sexual economics: You should not be taking deliveries where shipments are normally made.

I am a believer in the genetics of sexual orientation. I believe that people make choices about their sexual behavior only to the extent of their genetic make-up. Why would anyone choose to reduce their chances of finding someone to love? My God, that's hard enough to do when you're interested in the majority sexual orientation. Everyone has a right to be proud of who they are. I don't believe that homosexuality has anything to do with a person being "good" or "bad." I have no problem working with homosexuals in professional life.

I had a very good friend who was homosexual. Even though he knew I was not interested, he flirted with me sometimes. With one exception, I have been flirted with (sometimes persistantly) by every gay male who I have taken the time to try to get know on a personal level. I treat women with respect, PepperDog. While it may be flattering for people to express interest in me, I find these come-ons desperate and disgusting. I wouldn't mind getting to know more homosexuals if gays would respect my boundaries and lesbians wouldn't have prejudicial resentments.

We should all learn to respect each other more. And that means respecting differing views as well as differing orientations.”

“What do gay couples do about the TV remote?

How do they find their way when they get lost without a wife to go into the gas station?

Who reminds them of birthdays?

Seriously, I like arclite's view. I can't understand the attraction and find the mechanics distastefull, but I don't dislike a person because of who they've chosen to love. There is plenty of hate in or world and a shortage of love, why discourage loving partnerships?”

“Well said arclite.”

“Tom Terrific: forgive me for being thick, but I don't get the point in your last reply to me.

I hope you don't think I was saying step-parents are less devoted than real parents. My comment was more about marriages than parents.”

“Pepperdog is gay? That's because she hasn't met most of the TT men, right guys?
Hey, dog, if you really wanted to come out, you should have started a thread titled, "I'm Gay, leaving TT".
Seriously, I hope anyone who is gay, straight, or bacpac, always feels comfortable posting on this site. I really come here for the diversity, and I think our overall love of Nature helps us to communicate with one another in a meaningful way.”

“Le Subtil-
I intended nothing negative in that post.
I was just rambling about my experience with the elementary school.
I believe that many of the kids there don't live with both parents.

With time it became evident that quite a few of the parents were split or split during my K through 5 experience.
Some of my "girl-friends" let me know as things happened......."OK, gee that's too bad"

TXWoodswoman-
My reference to the Jersey Girls was my wondering if that is why there are SO many great looking young women here.
One of my Japanese students informed me that this university was on the Playboy Top Ten List for great looking women.
Are you from Jersey???

The University System of Maryland schools get a lot of students from Jersey and the New York area.
That was true when I was a student at College Park, Md.......before the dawn of time.

Whuddayawanna wrassle or somethin'?”

“Actually, dunadan, I never really wanted to come out on TT, it doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with backpacking.

TX - I'll get in touch about your all women hikes!! Thanks for the offer.

arclite - are there really that many things that women loving women and men loving men do that are so very different from what men and women do when they are loving each other? Thinking about most of what people do sexually is really pretty disgusting, once you start doing it you feel different about it.

As far as "most gays or lesbians" treat someone, I suspect that you have no idea how many gays and lesbians you deal with on a daily basis. Most of us look and act just like straight people in daily lives.”

“Amen sister!
A lot of that stuff sounds like the generic responses from "un-knowing" people.”

“I'm sorry Tom, we should all start taking your posts much more seriously. Then we can all come to "know" better. I am not worthy.

Well, pepperDog, yes it is different. I'm not into proctological sex. Neither am I into putting my fist into tight places. I don't have sexual urges that contradict what is the strongest biological urge inherant in plants, animals, and maybe even Tom T. I don't really care what kinds of sexual practices people are into, but I can't imagine thinking that the ones that I engage in are disgusting. Now, what someone else (besides my partner) thinks is none of my concern. I don't particularly worry about what other people think about me. Life is much healthier if I'm not trying to live up to other people's expectations.

As far as meeting people who are homosexual every day, I have no doubt and couldn't care less what someone looks like. I was only discussing social situations where I'm trying to relate on a personal level without the need for unwanted sexual innuendo or resentment based on gender.”

“I could care less about someones sexual choice. I just DONT want to hear about it. I have never had straight folks that I know constantly feel the need to talk about being straight and "straight issues". However homosexuals seem to feel the need to constantly talk about their "gayness".”

“Is Bunky gonna be at the party?”

“Yeah, Pepperdog, I agree. I was trying to insert (pun) some of my brand of humor.
I always have the urge (pun) to start talking about what my experience has been with homosexuals. I refrain because it always reminds me of George Wallace in the sixties, saying "Some of my best friends are negroes".
Folks is folks.”

“Hello arclite, and a good day to you.
Two guestions for you: If as you say you don't have sexual urges that contradict what is the strongest biological urge inherant in plants and animals. Would it be safe to assume that you and your wife? ONLY have sex when you want to have childern?
And as to gays flirting with you, would this maybe have more to do with their rudeness than with their gayness?”

“Isn't next week "Going Back In" week?”

“I wonder what the Taliban thinks of homosexuals?”

“Or camel beastiality?”

“That's why the Taliban are always racing each other to the camel herds... None of them want to get stuck with an ugly one! ;-)”

“The problem I have with the politically correct ?lifestyle CHOICE? is why would anyone CHOOSE to be homosexual?
I mean, I think I?ll let the gay community recruit me. Now I can fewer partners to pick from. I can now be ostracized by my family and by society as a whole. And lets not forget gay bashing, mental and physical.
Why would anyone CHOOSE this? It has to hard wired into a person?s genetic makeup not a choice. A homosexual has no more CHOICE to be homosexual than I have to be heterosexual. It?s just who I am and who they are.

The one problem I do have with GAYS is that they ruined a perfectly good word.”

“Nav, I can't understand why anyone would anyone choose to put an earring through their pecker either, but they do. Could that be genetic?”

“Self-mutilation is a whole 'nuther topic, one I think that speaks more to a horribly low self esteem then to genetics. Nav's arguement makes sense to me.”

“Hey Tom - another Jersey girls here. Tread lightly.

As for society in general - there are a$$holes everywhere. Whats the difference between getting hit on by a homosexual or your husband's friend - nothing - both are inappropriate.

And as for parenting - I would much rather have a child have 2 same sex parents that care for them than 2 parents that don't care - that leave it up to "society" to raise them. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers here can attest to the apathetic attitude. These are the same parents that will blame everyone but themselves.

I can't believe that someone would purposefully choose a lifestyle that would cause them strife. It must be very difficult to live an alternative lifestyle.

And another thing, why are yoy guys ok with two women and not with 2 men. Most women are either for or against both.”

“ok, I withdraw my hastily written and not well thought out last post. i'm having a bad day.”

“Hey LeSubtil, no worries dude! TGIF! Right buddy?”

“Thanks, Navi & m&m, for saving me from making those obvious points. They come across much better coming from a straight person.

Darn - I promised myself I wouldn't post on this issue again.”

“"Darn - I promised myself I wouldn't post on this issue again."

Don't worry about it Pepper. You merely are showing the discussion from the gay point of view. You aren't throwing it in our faces. There's plenty of straight people here who openly discuss their sexuality. Don't be PC, be Pepper dog.”

“m&m -

It's a guy thing (the being ok with two women). If you have to ask, you'll never understand.”

“Gay men are always hitting on arclite? Either their gaydar is malfunctioning or a little more self-examination may be in order.”

“Violin - I know its a "guy" thing. But I still am curious what the explaination is for the double standard. I know you "guys" really don't have a logical one. (its just too funny)

Personally - homosexuality dosent bother me. I take people as they are - if they are kind, hard working and respectful of others. And I give anyone credit for doing what they are really passionate about - whether it is relationships or playing in a band. Life is not easy when you have a lifestyle that is not "normal".

I don't throw stones - its not my place to.”

“My lesbian cousin has been in a committed relationship with one person for longer than any of her straight siblings or cousins.

She's also fun to be around. I sat with her and her partner at my sister's wedding and followed their leers to the best looking women there - very helpful.”

“Its good to have friends on the other side -

Have any of you guys ever seen Queer as Folk on HBO???”

“Howdy Naviguesser, long time no discussion.

One answer for you: Nope, it would not be safe to assume that because the logic doesn't follow, Nav. My urges do not contradict survival of the species. Male/female attraction is a genetically desireable trait for survival of the species. That's pretty obvious isn't it? Now why does that mean that someone who has that urge would only choose to follow it if it ensured reproduction? It's an urge not a mandate.

Answer two: Yes indeed I'd have to agree with you there. It is rude of anyone to make persistant advances to someone who is not interested. But I wouldn't find a woman's attention sexually disgusting.

I suppose there are those who feel that everyone must goose-step to the same ideas on this issue in order to be a good person. I'm very greatful that I'm not so convinced of my own infallibility.

Hey violin, give me your phone number and I can send the next one your way, buddy.

No m&m and I don't go out of the way to "confront" these issues either. I do, however, have a friend who is a lesbian. I always look forward to seeing her. She doesn't have resentments towards males. We talk about God, the universe, and everything. But we respect each other's sexual boundaries.”

“Who cares? To each his own.



"BAAHAAHAAHAA!"



"Quiet, Fluffy!"”

“Huh? I thought that Tom T. was saying that his college was crawling with hot babes because maybe they were all Jersey girls. And LSU had guernseys. Heck, who cares. Jersey Girls rule, the rest drool.”

“Ummmm, the men, I mean.”

“I want to march in a "Heterosexual Pride" parade. That will prove that I'm straight.”

“Pepperdog:no coment on the thread just met ya, hiked with you and love ya. Look forward to the next op.”

“Hi, jvz
love ya too - good to hear from you”

“pepperDog, I don't know you, never hiked with you, and your personal life makes no difference to me. But, since I see you're from CA like me (and a dog person) I thought I'd say hi and maybe we'll see ya on a TT trip or something.(?)”

“Dunadan, as long as you don't drink and march, you'll be able to walk straight.

M&M, there's no double standard. Most guys view women as sex objects, so when 2 gals are going at it...it's very normal. If there's 2 guys going at it...it's threatens our male-ness.
A guy's fantasy, is to do it with 2 gals at the same time. And some gals like to be serviced, by 2 guys at the same time too. All's fair.”

“"Most guys" is the operable phrase there stanlee. I wouldn't know about your comments, I've never seen any stats on the ratio. I've never had a desire to watch two women or be with two women. Then again, I've never been into large breasts either. Among my friends, I'm definitely in the minority on that score.”

“We have a lesbian couple living next door. They seem OK, and ultra liberal. The other day, one of them knocked on our door and handed me some name and phone number to call. She wanted us to call our wrad councilman and pressure him to answer some survey by the Gay liberal womens group, or something like that. The questions were all basically, "Do you accept gay rights, gay people, etc.?" That's the stuff I don't like.

My uncle is gay. I accept him, and he seems pretty cool (he's lived out of state for 22 years). If someone is gay, it doesn't bother me. I just don't like when people push the issue.

I'd be happy to hike with someone like pepperdog someday, not because she's gay, but becuase we have a common interest in hiking, and she has enough guts to share something so controversial with all of us crazies here on TT.”

“Ok we have heard from the hetros and we have heard from the homo, but what about the switch hitters? Ya know the married guys that like a good corn hole and the Lesbos who like a good weiner.

Do we have to applaud them too?”

“I just couldn't care any less. If people want to have sex with members of the opposite sex, their own sex, or both sexes. Big damn deal. If they aren't knocking on my door and asking if they can preform their act in the middle of my front room, what's the problem? I have never looked at this issue like an issue. I have straight, gay, and bi friends. We have never hung out and discussed it.”

“Just because Mr.bacpac likes it in the bum, doesn't mean he's gay, does it?”

“wow. i agree completely with the new girl.”

“Rad, honey, I knew you come around. And of course you agree. You are me, remember.”

“oh, yeah. dam!”

“bacpac certainly is blunt.

He kinda reminds me of my dear old uncle Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev.”