Knee Pain

“I am interested in hearing how many of you deal with knee pain, and how you deal with it.

Have you sought medical advice?

Do you have a knee brace that you'd recommend?

Does it get better, or worse, the more you hike?

I had some real knee pain (not to mention my feet and quads) last weekend on the descents from Mt. Washington and from Mt. Lafayette.

Could have something to do with climbing 10,000 feet in three days...but even on day one, the problems were bad enough that I had to cut back on my planned day two hike.”

“Hurt my knee 2 years ago on a strenous hike. I finally saw a doctor this week about it, scheduling a MRI. I strained it and the doctor said that I might have a loose ligament. I do alot of leg extentions at 50lbs instead of the 70lbs I used to do. That helps. It only hurts alot when I wear heels (so don't do that fritz!!) or if I don't exercise. The doctor said I should have seen him right away.

So I would guess that you should have a professional look at it.”

“I dunno. It was both knees equally, so it was "overuse" as opposed to injury...

I guess I'll give the Doc a call anyway. Just very hard to fit it in. Lost a filling three months ago, haven't made it into the dentist yet. Life is nuts.

(BTW, I figured I'd hear from you m&m, because I remembered seeing your knee-brace in the pics.)”

“I tore my ACL in '90. Had it rebuilt by an great doc and I ski play hoop and backpack on it without a brace. The best exercize is leg curls, build up your hamstrings. Leg extentions put pressure on the ACL. If that is the ligament you have irritated.”

“The inside of my knee was hurting bad. The doctor had no idea what it was. The chiropracter(sp?) at the gym finally diagnosed it. It turned out to be a tight IT band. I deal with it by stretching twice daily, even when I'm off the trail. Hamstrings, IT band, quads, and calf. It'll hurt a little when you start, but it gets better fast. Go see a docter who knows sports injuries.”

“I had some acheyness a few years ago, but the knees are doing fine now. I would wear a neoprene brace the first day or two bp'ing, but the pain would go away after then (exercise factor?). After a couple years the pain subsided completely, yet I would pack a brace just in case. I quit packing the brace a couple years ago.

I think playing softball is what started the knee(s) problem. I haven't played ball for several years now (cowinkydink?).

I get aches and pains on most every hike, but I attribute that to exertion.”

“I hyperextended my knee on a hike several years ago. Doc said I had a "growing depression on the back of my knee cap" Huh? He also said that there was nothing he could do about it! I haven't had any problems in about a year and a half so I haven't sought a second opinion. My suspision is a muscle imbalance, my quads were a lot stronger than my hamstrings and it was stressing my ligiments.
Now I just use Advil at the end of rough day of hiking to cure all my pains.”

“Best advice here, go see a doctor. They don't always have all the answers but it's a good place to start.

I go easy on my knees by riding a bike for aerobics. I used to run a lot, and still do some, but not as much. Go easy on yourself. Once you get as old as gojo, it's to late to go back.

I can still get away with some running because I'm not very heavy. In fact I'M 6'6" TALL AND 130LBS.”

“I broke my ACL (had a reconstruction) and have half of the cartilage left in the other knee. I start taking Glucosamine about a week before I leave on a hike. Take Ibuprofin and vitamins every night before I go to bed. Seems to work pretty well.

Fritz, Yours seems to be a cartilage problem more than ligaments. Good luck and take it easy.”

“My knees are starting to get worse with age. I have noticed that losing weight has helped. Hiking uphill doesn't bother me, but the descent is another story. Guess it means I shouldn't come back once I'm there.
Arc, you should win the Biz contest, once she returns from Sedona. I am definitely not in the contest. (6'/10"-105lb)”

“lol!! Arclite, you seem to have grown a few inches and lost weight since you checked out Biz's homepage!

But in her bio she said she likes 'em 6'-2" and 170 lbs. so you might want to shave a few inches and bulk up real quick before she gets back from hiking this weekend! ;-)”

“I heard Biz was dating Manute Bol.”

“Cool, I only have to lose 15 lbs. by Monday! I haven't weighed 170 since high school?! Where does she find these men?”

“6'10" 105lbs, dunadan? Oh yeah? Well I'm heading down to the doc's tomorrow. Who needs knees. I'm going to have 12" titanium rods implanted where my knees were. I'LL BE 7'6" AND 98LBS.”

“The contest is getting serious...I can't afford titanium...”

“I just read her bio, I'm out of the contest. Too old for me. I'll let you old farts drool over a 29 yr. old!”

“I lift weights. My knees grind like a brick on asphalt. Going up stairs hurts, but I just go up fast so it doesn't hurt as long.

There are a lot of muscles associated with the knee that are not strengthened by walking or running. If you build up the stablizer muscles the pain is reduced.”

“Nothing serious here compared to the rest of you. But, my knees used to hurt at the end of long downhill stretches. I lost 40 more pounds and started using a hiking stick. Haven't had any problems since...even with heavier pack weights a few times.”

“Your knee caps sit on cartilege. If you don't keep the muscles around the knee strong, your knee cap can slip a little, causing it to grind at the cartilege. Grind enough cartilege off and the knee cap will slip out of place easier, causing more grinding of cartilege, on and on. When I was young and perfect, I used to do aerobics several times a week. I developed a knee inflammation that lasted six months. The doc said that side to side exercise like aerobics were not the best, because it allows the kneecap to slip more. So step aerobics (don't do the diagonal stepping), elliptical cross training and the weight training mentioned by bacpac are kinder to your knees and strengthen those muscles that hold the cap in place, preventing future grinding, or reducing it. Just do isometrics, where you straighten your leg, and tense all the muscles around the knee, while watching TV. Since then, I have only had brief knee pain, so I guess the doc was right in my case.

This is separate, of course, from a discussion of an actual ligament tear, or other sudden injury.”

“The most recent issue of Backpacker (just got it today) has info on knee pain, stretches and other preventive info regarding knee pain/injuries...including some positive statistics wrt using hiking poles and stress on knees.”

“Before I started hiking a lot I used to have some serious knee pain due to some old injuries. Used to use a neoprene brace and used a lot of Motrin - ended up with an ulcer from the Motrin so I just started living with the pain. When I began hiking the knees used to really get inflammed but after about a year of hiking I found that I was no longer feeling the pain. and have been relatively pain free ever since - a couple years now. Of course I have mildly hyperextended a knee a few times but with some care about how I hike those problems seem to go away fairly quickly (a month or two).”

“Thanks all of you for the responses. 'ppreciate it.”

“Hey there, I used to be called Wounded Knee-seriously. Motrin helped alot. But I think it only dulled the pain. Going down hill with an extra 35 lbs on large and uneven steps was really working the joints. One day on the trail, a hiker showed me how to properly use the Lekis. I work my arms hard downhill and go real easy on the knees. Much, much better. Also, I try to step straight down, instead of stepping sideways down the big steps. The knees were meant to bend on one axis.

Then to keep the muscles around the knee strong in the winter, down hill skiing works just fine!!!”

“Whenever I hike downhill, my right knee hurts like no tomorrow. I think this is due to impact. The only thing I have found that helps is to train in the off season. Try running and biking. It should help strengthen the joint and keep the pain down. It worked for me.”

“I think the hiking poles would be great, but they're not in the budget for a long while, for me.”

“LyndyS, Go to Salvation Army, Skill Center, or whatever the local thrift store is and buy some old ski poles. They won't grip as well as the carbide tipped trekking poles, but they will work. Barring that, just get a wood hiking or cheap metal hiking stick. I paid $25 for my CD lite staff 3 or 4 year ago, and it's still going strong.”

“My knees & legs hurt a little at work because I work on a concrete floor. I never have trouble on the trail though.”

“Bamboo poles with non-skip rubber tips on them work pretty well and are light but they do flex so be sure to get thicker ones.”

“Dang, I forget bamboo doesn't grow everywhere! sorry.”

“LyndyS- You may be able to pick up a pair of used ski poles with carbide tips. Most of the decent ones made in the last 10 years have carbide tips to grip on ice. The only problem with ski poles is that they are not adjustable...longer for downhill, shorter for uphill. Most of them also will not have cork grips, but the rubber or vinyl grips will work just fine. I like my cork grips because they are warmer in colder weather and keep my hands more comfortable in warmer weather.”

“Thanks, I'll check out some places for used ski poles my size.”

“That pic was from when I actually hurt it. Now its ok- as long as I exercise. I strained it with too much weight - with alot of elevation - with many miles over a week. I was in hell on the last day. No actual incident when I hurt it - so I know it was a strain. I left my group early and walked out the last day on my own.

Haven't worn the knee brace since - but do bring it in case it acts up.”

“Mostly I pick em up at the country bar around the corner, Norton's Corner Ü arclite, where's your pic?

knees, the only thing that ever bothers me. I have been to a zillion sports medicine doctors (including the Phoenix Sun's orthopedic surgeon), had MRI's, nothing. They all say it's in my head. I think I have arthritis but they all say 'Biz you're too young to have arthritis' whatever

I don't beleive in drugs so I just suffer. Getting out in nature makes me forget about the pain.”

“Let me rephrase that. I don't believe in this over-the-counter nonsense, pop a pill for every little ache & pain. Do you know that we don't even KNOW the mechanism behind asprin? Asprin! mechanism=how it works, in chemistry terms

Antibiotics are sometimes useful.”

“Actually Aleve has Naparson in it. Which reduces the swelling in muscles which allows the circulation and nerves do their part in repairing the damage. I was on it for 3 years in the Naprosan version. But it will eat up your stomach if you take it too long. If that happens the doctor will put you on Tagament which causes birth defects. Sooooo Drugs are not the answer long term. At least for me.”

“I had both kneew operated on a few years back when I decided that I would definitely retire from rugby. Now, once again, I have to get out and walk around the car every 50 km or so to click them back in place. It's just cartilage damage, but can be a pain - literally.

My knees don't usually hurt after long downhills, however, just my quads. Hiking poles really help here, although I thought (and said) they were ridiculous for the longest time - now I have the firm conviction of a convert. Old fashioned ski poles are just as good, if less packable and their length can be adjusted at a ski shop. They take off the grips and cut them at that end. Downhill skiers want their poles from the floor to the hand at 90° at the elbow. They should be a couple of inches longer for X-country and longer still for skating. I like mine at X-country length.

If I were in pain (well, I am in pain), I would think that poles are well worth saving up for. Try borrowing a pair (that's what I did), or renting (leave your credit card instead of a cash deposit). Happy trails. Oh yes, see a doctor.”

“some of you know that I thougth I injured my knee on one of the hikes. Anyway, I was in a lot of pain. The doctor said I overworked it, and pretty much told me to cancel all trips and exercise for a while. gave me some meds, and that was it.

With the pain came some pretty bad swellings of both of my legs. Doc said prolly just something else I got from hiking that much too. Had nothing to do with the knee pain. OKAY...never got an xray. Fine! Doc knows best. And my knee really didnt hurt when he was twisting it in all sorts of directions.

Still...back then I had a Cali trip coming up in 12 days. I wasnt' about to cancel that trip. I went anyway. No pain...well..once...and then again at the end of the trip. It was really bad at the end. I barely couldn't make it down the mtn.

Damn knee!!! so i thought.
I came home, rested, and rested some more. No exercise, no hiking. Nothing!
All of a sutton my knee started to bug me again. It started in the middle of the night. Next day I was in real bad pain AGAIN. WTF??? I did't do anything!!

Then I started to think...damn... I can almost guess when my knee pain starts again. Wanna bet???

ny knee starts hurting every 20/21 days. I tried it out this month. today would be the 20th day I think... and yupp...I feel it already.

Now YOU tell me... WTF that is????
a PMS symtom or what??? [me being a #&%!$ not enough of punishment?]

NOw remember, I am not a doctor, so what the hell do I know? Really not much about that stuff. BUT... I know some women retain water more then others. I am in the "more" category and once in a while it's getting pretty bad.

Next month I'll try out if I maybe not drink enough during those days. Right now I am not drinking as much on purposes so I know for sure if water intake plays another role.

But anyway...isn't that weird?
I didnt' go to the doc yet because if it is water in my knee...there isn't prolly anything he can do anyway.”

“Sorry to hear about it and injuries can really linger and take a long time to heal. Depending on your age, sometimes a soft tissue injury can take a year or more to heal and feel normal again. I know that's what I'm going through with some bad hip bursitis and tendonitis. Progress is very slow and I couldn't hike with a loaded pack for months. Inflammation around a joint can be easily flared up again by doing too much, too hard and too soon. I think you have to find some balance between giving it just the right amount of exercise and rest. Also, I found I had to temporarily quit some activities like bicycling. If some activity hurts your knee, don't do it until it heals. Unfortunately, that could include hiking up and down hills with a loaded pack or you may have to be restricted to hiking flat terrain for a while.
If all else fails maybe go back to the doctor and see about an x-ray or MRI to see if any damage is present inside the joint. Persistent imflammation in a joint can lead to arthritis so it's not sometime to fool around with. Hope you get better soon.
last edited: 9/10/05 4:03:13 PM”

“Gem, you are very strange.

http://www.womentowomen.com/SYMstiffnessjointpain.asp
i have no idea if that's any help.
last edited: 9/10/05 4:56:56 PM”

“here's a better one
http://www.coolnurse.com/pms.htm”

“well I don't have any periodic pain but what I discovered that really sucks is that I have a choice - use trekking poles and suffer cause of bursitis in the shoulders or don't use trekking poles and have pain in the knees after a few days of hiking - currently I am recovering from knee pain after I had to bail half way around the Dragon's Tooth/McAfee Knob/Tinker Cliffs/North Mtn. loop - additional suckyness - NSAIDs tend to give me ulcers so I have to be real carefull in their use.”

“I go to school with an oprthepedic Dr and Chiropractor who's taken special interest in my knee problems. He recently told me about DMSO's, what he terms a miracle drug for joint injuries. He emailed me some research on them. Would you like me to forward to you guys? They're supposedly inexpensive over the counter creams available at GNC.”

“You are lucky Gemini. My knees hurt all the time.”

“Could you perhaps post a picture of yourself during water retention?


jk

The meniscus tendon in my right knee does some swelling and hurts a little. I have also had shoulder and elbow tendon problems and once had really bad achilles tendon problems. I think the worst thing you can do for injured tendons is nothing. You've got to keep them moving and stretched out for them to heal strong.

I think you need a new Dr. or therapist. I had to find a Dr. about my age who ran before I got the right treatment for my achilles tendons. Aussie has a psycho physical therapist who works her really hard, but she's as strong as a horse and couldn't hike at all last year.”

“Sass...yes PLEASE send it to me!”

“A good place to check out joint injuries and other people that have them is the injury forum over at Runnersworld.com. Running and joint injuries seem common and it's loaded with examples over there for foot, ankle, knee and hip problems.
last edited: 9/11/05 11:27:27 AM”

“I had really bad knee pain. The doctor did some x-rays and said that I had an "overuse injury". Apparently all the running developed the muscles on the one side of my leg but not the other. This caused the knee cap to ride to one side of the knee and rub the groove it is supposed to engage with. He told me to do strength training or ride a bike. I ride the bike a few times a week (generally a stationary with the resistance pumped up). It got better very quickly, and indeed my kneecap did move back into place.

Someone else on the board recommended an exercise with a ball that I tried. It looked like it would also do the job. I tried it a few times but decided to stick with the bike.”

“This past weekend we did some dayhiking and once again, my left knee started bothering me to the point that I couldn't put any weight on it if I was going down stairs. There was nothing that happened to cause the pain (no falls or twist or sprain). This is the third or fourth time it has happened over the last six months. It seems to only be a problem after I have hiked for a couple hours and then try to go down stairs or down a decline. It's the bending that causes pain.


Anyway.....I know I should see a doc. However, I can't right at this moment. I want to research it a bit though. Can anyone recommend a web site that could help me self-diagnose?”

“possibly webmd

Might be deteriorated cartilage.”

“Fraid I can't help ya much with the website, but for what it's worth.....those are the exact same symptoms I get if I quit taking MSM/Glucosomine pills on a daily basis.
Also I had to take it for a least a month before I started noticing much of a difference”