Controversial Subjects

“ROTFLMMFAO!!!!”

“that was funny!”

“ROTFLMMFAO!!!! too.”

“Good one!!”

“ROTFLMBO!!
People are looking at me from over the tops of their cubes and asking if I'm OK.”

“Here's a controversial question; Why do people in Florida need an architect?”

“Don't they need someone to design the dykes?

I mean the whole State is right at sea level.”

“I wish someone had designed me better!”

“Not to pry Pepperdog, but what would you change about your design that would make you better? Are you not content?”

“Everyone needs a good architect, dunadan.

Unless you are a worthless piece of frog splittle who wants to rape the planet because you don't care enough about energy efficient design, efficient use of materials, your relationship to your environment, and you think you know more than a good architect knows about these things.

For instance, a contractor might not want an architect because they are greedy people who think they know something about design but really don't want to be told that they can't rape their clients and make excess profits from change orders and substituting cheap materials and fixtures instead of those specified.

Does that answer your question, dunadan?”

“Omahiker, I read the post in which you said you have seen alot of marriages end "for no good reason." I totally agree w/ your point that people need to be less selfish and take their responsibility to their children and spouses more seriously. But I don't think you should say that people divorce "for no good reason." You don't live in those people's homes and have no idea why they are divorcing. I am sick of hearing how bad divorce is for the kids. After 22 yrs. my mother divorced my father at my sister and I's suggestion. They were so unhappy, their marriage was a mess, and us kids couldn't take another day of it. Sometimes staying together is what is bad for the kids.”

“When we added a front porch to our house last year, we really balked when the township said we needed an architect unless we planned to do all the carpentry work ourselves. I mean, why pay all that money to someone when we'd already looked at millions of magazines and books and driven around looking at other porches and had a really good idea of what we wanted.

Well, it turned out to be the best investment we could have made. Our architect met with us and really listened to what we had in mind and came up with some details that we wouldn't have thought of - Like a barrel vault over the doorway to really attract the eye to the front door and heavier columns than we thought would look good. With his AutoCAD software, he was able to show us the effect of the larger columns and even helped us to pick the best siding by showing the house with different options.

He visited the site several times to check the contractor.

The end result is beautiful! We still get people stopping and looking, giving us compliments and even taking photos. My wife caught a couple of contractors taking measurements. How about knocking on the door first?”

“The township can tell you have to have an architect? Nothing against architects, but where I live, people would flip out if someone said they had to do something like that.”

“Would you really need an architect to design a dental floss silo?”

“Hahaha! Probably not. But what about outhouses?”

“Some poeple just don't understand the west do they newgirl?”

“No kidding Chief. What's the deal?”

“Weighing in on the "marriages ending for no good reason" threadlet, when people who really shouldn't be married stay together "for the children" the children grow up thinking that this is what marriage is all about. In the 16 years I lived with my parents before they separated I never saw them have a civil conversation. They didn't fight but there was no warmth. Of the 4 children in my family, my relationship of 15 years is a record, as far as I know my brother has never had a committed relationship, one sister was married for 13 years and has now been single for 15, and the other sister had one relationship that lasted 5 years but other than that hasn't seemed to have any lasting relationship. We are all now over 45.

I can't help but think that growing up with a very unattractive model of a marriage made all of us think that staying single would be more fun.”

“newgirl -

I did not say that divorce is never appropriate - in cases of abuse or unrepentant adultery, I support divorce. However, I personally have observed many instances where one spouse has abandoned the other because they "fell in love" with someone else, or were simply dissatisfied with the marriage - there was no attempt to resolve differences, no counseling, no second chance to repair damage or improve the situation, just "you're not making me happy, I'm leaving." Some of these cases involved young children, who were traumatized by the separation from their parent.

I HAVE lived in some of the "houses" that you speak of - my parents were alcoholics at one time, who eventually quit drinking and agreed to a truce of sorts, they are still together. My first husband left me and my sons for another woman, lying to me about his motives; and my second husband eventually divorced me after several separations and long-term counseling in an attempt to resolve abuse issues.

A marriage is between two imperfect people and cannot succeed without compromise and commitment from both. True love is not an emotion, but a decision, and a willingness to submit one's own interests to the good of a family unit. That is the point I was trying to make, and the absence of societal pressure to live up to this kind of commitment is a sad reality of our time.”

“pepperDog, I was 16 when my parents divorced, too. I am also one of four. CraZy! You're 100% right, it was an unattractive model of love and commitment.”

“Man, Arc, it took you long enough to answer my (joking) question!
I'm glad that you are an architect with integrity who keeps energy conservation in mind when designing buildings. Do you supervise the buildings that you draw?
I am in construction and submit estimates based on architectural plans almost exclusively. There are some architects that can draw a beautiful house, but they leave out many details. Most typically, they forget that there has to be a mechanical system in the house. They leave it up to us to cover their butts. They take all of the credit for success and hide when the design flaws start showing up.
There is no substitute for a good architect, and nothing worse than a bad one.”

“There are no boundries, except what we put on ourselves.”

“where did I leave those zircon-encrusted tweezers?”

“You left them in your rancid poncho, ya mudshark!”

“I thought a dyke was something that controlled river flow.

oooppps, I get it... hehe”

“Dunadan, I have a M. Architecture specializing in mechanical, electrical, and plumbing systems. Man, I was hoping for a LIVELY conversation with that post, but you seem to be too "civilized" to be baited like that. Dang, I'll just have to try again. I worked my way through college and it was mostly in construction. There is sometimes very poor communication between architects and contractors and it's a shame. Some of the most competent people I ever worked with are trades guys who take a lot of pride in their work. There is just SO much to learn about architecture that many architects don't learn much about construction before they start to practice. I will spend my lifetime trying to learn all I would like to know about building. It took my favorite architect, Louis Kahn, until he was in his 50's before he started turning out his best work. FLW said he was turning out better work in his 80's than at any time previously. Any profession has it's incompetents. I really enjoy working with a good contractor. I always try to discuss my construction documents with the contractor while I'm still in the design phase. That way there are no surprises for the contractor and I usually learn a few things.

Violin, I'm glad you had such a positive experience. I don't do a lot of houses for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. I find it a waste of my time when someone walks into my office and says, "We saw this great picture in a magazine and we just want to modify it a little, you know, split bedrooms, move a few windows..." I don't need the money that badly. Imagine walking into a doctor's office and saying, "I read this great article in a health magazine and I think you should perform these tests and procedures because..." Dental floss silos are very complicated projects. You definitely need an architect before you attempt something like that. DO NOT attempt that at home.”

“Arc, why ya' trying to tell everybody they need an architect for a dental floss silo. Me and my Pa built one just a few yrs. back. It's still standin' and I think it is a testament to our geometric abilitaaaas. What next, blue prints fer my outhouse?


I'm only kidding you, Arc. Want to design me a very energy efficient, cheaply built, small home?”

“Omahiker, that last paragraph is a good one. I agree. 'Nuf said on that.”

“"A marriage is between two imperfect people and cannot succeed without compromise and commitment from both. True love is not an emotion, but a decision, and a willingness to submit one's own interests to the good of a family unit. That is the point I was trying to make, and the absence of societal pressure to live up to this kind of commitment is a sad reality of our time."

I agree wholeheartedly!

Iowa State University recently finished a study that proved it really did not make a difference what the quality of parent's marriage was just so long as they supported, expressed minimal anger, and recognized good behavior to the child. The study,(Followed 193 kids over 11 years), found that children mirror parents' behavior toward them, not toward each other. So it basically found that the key to a child's ability to develop positive romantic relationships is not how well MOm and Dad get along but how the child is treated.

That from Parenting Nov 2001.

Interesting eh?”

“What arclite said. Give 'em hell, dude!

Oh, and newgirl. You wouldn't by any chance live in an area where people think of home renovation as buying new tires? ;-)”

“No comment BobK! LOL!”

“I don't agree with anything Oma Hiker said. Until you've been there and walked a mile in their boots, you don't know their situation. I know so many people who get divorced and everyone Else thinks they know what happened-and who is to blame. Unless you are in the relationship, you don't know sh!t (and even then, you still may not know). Neither may you pass judgement.

Now, if you are taling about your divorces, what you said may be true. But I think newgirl proved this is not the place to talk about your dirty laundry.”

“tell us about your dirty laundry. biz is a laundry detergent right?”

“Hey, yeah, I thought we weren't supposed the details of our failed relationships. Let's stick to the rules.


Only kidding, Omahiker, I couldn't care less if you want to post about it.”

“Very Cool! Multiple controversial subject discussions.

I think Omahiker has a good point about societal pressure (culture). Society's attitudes about how easy it is to walk out of a commitment have changed even in my lifetime.

Joy, now you know that one study does not "prove" anything. You know that don't you?

Sure, newgirl, but let's talk about that outhouse first. Do you want a composting outhouse, or just a septic pit? Do you want good ventilation? What times of the year would you like the sun to shine on you as you squat? Do you want people to hear what's going on in there? What about sound dampening?”

“Arc, just adding to the conversation, didn't say I agreed or not. I just thought it was an interesting conclusion. It's the only study that has been done so far.

I can say that my parents didn't have the smoothest marriage while I was growing up but treated me well and I have an excellant relationship.”

“I was quoting from the article when I typed "proved"”

“It is an interesting conclusion, Joy. My parents loved each other and me as well. It was a wonderful family environment. I broke off my engagement a few months back.”

“Arc, it was the comment about lack of societal pressure to follow through on commitment that I liked too.

As for the outhouse . . . me and my family don't care to darned much about the particulars. We just like to head out thar' in sit in peace. LOL!

How about that house? It needs to be built cheap and keep the MT winter and summer extremes out.”

“Yes but you had not taken the vow yet! That's a bit different if you take things like marriage vows seriously. (sorry about the breaking up, hope you got the ring back)”

“arciteks suk!”

“So Joy and Oma and Arc, what is your take on single parent families? I just read an article in some parenting mag. called "Single Moms Surviving and Thriving." (Joy, this might have been the same article you are refering too.)”

“Arc, pretty tough year, huh? IMO, sometimes $hit just happens. Its the chaos. Three things in life are certain; death, taxes and change. Sometimes you change with the people you love and sometimes you change (and they change) in different directions. May we all be fortunate enough to have people in our lives to share the journey with.”

“Nicely put Flyguy.”

“Joy, I still feel a bit stupid for committing to a relationship that wasn't going to work. I insisted on premarital counseling and tried my best to communicate my feelings, but there were issues that we just couldn't work out. The fact of the matter is that I should have been thinking better with my head, instead of my...

Getting engaged is serious in my eyes. In the end, I was amazed at how easy it was for me to break a serious commitment that I made. Yes I'm better off for it, but I never should have committed in the first place. I got the ring back.

We can talk, newgirl. Can you read AutoCAD, .dwg files? If not, this could be a very slow process.”

“Arc, I'm not really expecting you design anything. I have no experience w/ autocad, so I don't have an answer to that question. Buuuuuut . . . what do you have in mind.”

“I think I may be stepping out on thin Ice here...But you asked!

I think a caring two parent family is ideal but a single can be just fine. My brother is a single parent of three kids. He's got a five year old and three year old twins. I wish he had a wife/mother figure living in his home with him. More because he needs help than the kids aren't getting what they require. I have infinite respect for single parents and would never want to walk in your shoes. parenting is hard enough in a partnership some days, much less alone! I really don't know what effects growing up with one parent has. Hopefully that didn't cvome across too bad.”

“Newgirl will you marry me?”

“societal pressure is a poor excuse for not thinking

Baaaaahhhh”

“Arc, You'd have felt alot stupider if you'd have gotten married! There's much to be said for someone who is smart enough to pull out before there is mess! Kudos to you!”