Controversial Subjects

“"...smart enough to pull out before there is mess"

i heard that that might not be the safest thing to do.

oh, wait... nevermind!”

“I shoulda known it would be you Raddy who would comment on that! Looks like I forgot an "a" in there.”

“What Joy said, Arc. Better for having recognized that it was doomed.

Joy, I think you said it very nicely. I think that if there are two parents it is also the ideal. Newergirl's dad and I are trying very hard to get things worked out and reach that ideal. However, I think that what you said before applies. If the parent is loving and good to their child, it makes little difference if there are two or one of them.

Bacpac, why on earth do you want to marry me? I told you once, my upper limit is 45. Aren't you like . . . 70! HeHeHe!”

“Oooo, Parenting advise! Can I chime in? Heehee! Just kidding. IMHO the secret to a happy marriage is, no shagging until you?re married and the vows should say ?as long as you both love each other?, rather than ?as long as you both shall live?. Hey, things change. Call me a prude if ya want!”

“Only dude...only you. I bow and yield to your superior web scrounging!”

“Violin, I have a few small web searching projects for you. How 'bout it?”

“There are a number of structual flaws with that design.”

“Not one of my best years, flyguy.

The marriage counselor basically told me the same thing, Joy. I still feel that I should have been paying better attention.

Boy, you said a mouthful, rad.

Violin, where do you find all those appropriate sites?”

“Distacted by work. Imagine that?

Good relationships are based on paying attention, Joy. I was surprised that I didn't

Didn't mean to ignore your question, newgirl. Single parenthood is a fact of life for many reasons. It's got to be tough. It's not something I would wish to try. But I certainly don't feel any lack of respect for people who choose it.”

“"mouthful"???

no thanks!!!!”

“QUESTION: What do the following statements gleaned from this thread have in common?

Arclite: "The judgements become: 'You either like all of me or nothing about me'; 'you're either for me or against me'; you're either right or wrong, good or bad?"

Arclite: "I don't ever want to feel like I have all the correct answers because that is truly delusional."

Lizs: "Now I spend too much time thinking about the various 'shades' of an issue and I know that neither side is entirely correct."

LeSubtil: "The older I get, the more I realize I don't know."

BobK: "there probably is one transcendental truth out there, but we will never really know what it is until we die. Everything else is just a WAG or a culturally taught value."

PepperDog: "I, too, have been amazed at the 'with me or against me' flavor that a lot of the threads (especially the political post-Sept 11th threads) have taken lately. Are people really that sure that they are right?"

Gear Slut: "The world is nothing but a pallet of shades of grey, very little black and very little white."

Gear Slut: "At the end of the day any arguements that happen on this board don't mean anything."

robbieh: "Tis a very sad thing we cannot enjoy the diversity in our world. I've learned the most from those who are different from me and probably enjoy them the most. Every group I've come to understand, broadens the size of the world I am comfortable with and adds to the color and sparkle of things!"

strider: "Until we are all the same, there will always be some elements of the body human that believe (1) we are better than they are, and (2) they are a threat to us."

Chili36: "I do not believe that it is my duty to become judgmental of anyone." ? ""freedom of speach does not allow the cry of Fire!! in a crowded theater"."


ANSWER: Each one appears to be self-refuting. (With all due respect to those who posted them, a thoughtful examination of the statements themselves will reveal their inconsistencies.)

But inherent contradictions notwithstanding, more importantly, these and a number of other posts in this thread seem to express current and popular Western attitudes toward a moral relativism that itself is inconsistent, contradictory and self-refuting.

Conversely, Omahiker is unique in proposing something radically different. S/he says:

"There is such a thing as truth which transcends culture and human opinion, and it is not a moving target, even though it can at times be elusive and difficult to discover."

Some questions for Omahiker -- or anyone else who cares (or dares) to address:

1) What is the "truth which transcends"?
2) How is it discovered/recognized?
3) How is it verified? (What standards for Truth does it meet?)”

“Man, this is a pretty hard essay.”

“M Silver, in the complete context in which my statements were used,,,how can you possibly find them to be self refuting? Is there some analysis that escapes me, or is this "discovery" the result of a shallow interpretation?”

“It's a fair bet that when the expression 'moral relativism' pops up, a sermon will soon follow.”

“violin's real name is Donald H. Baker”

“1) What is the "truth which transcends"?

Beer is good.

2) How is it discovered/recognized?

Usually it is in a bottle or can, but sometimes it comes it a keg.

3a) How is it verified?
3b) What standards for Truth does it meet?

a. I drink it and it tastes good.
b. There are no bad beers, only beers that have gone bad.

BURP!”

“Perhaps Msilver would be good enough to examine others who are consistant in their comments.”

“msilver is referring to God.

let the sermon begin!

















BaSO and i will just step out for a couple of brews.”

“Beer is my God and I think I'll do some prayin'.

CRACK

SLURP

BURRRRRRRRRRPPP

Time for more worshipping.”

“worshipping at the porcelain altar, if you keep drinking THAT fast!”

“Our beer, who art in hand
Hallowed be thy taste
Thy beer truck come
They will be drunk
On Earth and hopefully in Heaven

Give us this day, our daily beer
And forgive us our spills
As we forgive those who spill on us
Lead us not into sobriety
And deliver to us more beer.

BURP”

“Blasphemy! Thou shalt not!”

“Is there absolute truth as to which is the best beer?”

“oooooh... you've done it now...

Pilsner Urquell

Everything else SUCKS!!!!

gee... maybe there *is* an Ultimate Truth in the Universe? After all, the Ultimate Answer is 42.”

“M Silver-

Personally, questions like this drove my nuts in college. It is why I never got into or understood history, religion, art or humanities. Everyone had their own interpretation of what happened (history), what it means (religion), or what the artist/author was trying to say (art & humanities). In My Opinion, none of them were correct (or maybe all of them were correct?).

This is why I stuck to science. There are very few facts that can't be disputed about the laws of nature. A complex mathematical algorithm does not lie. Either the shuttle lifts off, or it doesn't.. although a lot of people like to argue whether electrons really exist..

Anyway, if you really want to be driven nuts, ask 'What is Quality?' (similiar to What is Truth, but different). Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence is a good book to read if you're interested in these types of questions.”

“It's a little to early for Religeous Wars but when you can calculate Pi to the last digit, then you can tell us how science and math hold all the answers.”

“Science isn't supposed to hold answers. It's supposed to ask well developed questions. The answers are already there and it is just on more way of finding them. I refer you to the blind man and the elephant parable.”

“P.S. should read well developed questions that yield testable results.”

“I don't understand your reference to "moral relativism", M Silver.

Most quotes you mention merely state that we don't have all the answers. I could put it another way: Who am I to say I know God's will? People who think they know THAT answer can really cause this thread to get interesting.”

“I don't want to get into a holy war, M Silver. If "A" is true, and "B" contradicts "A", then "B" is false. This is the basis of traditional Western thought in a nutshell. As a society, we have moved from the philosophy that "believers of all faiths merit equal respect" to "beliefs of all faiths merit equal respect." While on the surface these appear to be the same thing, in reality and in practice they are very different. I can condemn a person's belief or opinion without condemning the person, or denying them the right to hold their belief or opinion. Saying "you are wrong" is not the same as saying "you are bad."”

“I am right ....and I am bad!”

“?If "A" is true, and "B" contradicts "A", then "B" is false.?

The big question is knowing weather or not ?A? is actually true. If we believe ?A? to be true and, in fact it is not, then when ?B? contradicts ?A?, we call ?B? false when it is in fact possibly true. One thing I have learned is that having 100% faith in something doesn?t make it 100% true.”

“So Nigal you've decided there are no absolute truths recently?”

“I agree Nigal but that should not stop us from trying to find the truth, or cause us to think that there is no such thing as truth.”

“Is testing your faith doubt? Are the two compatible?”

“Testing your faith is essential to strengthening it. If your beliefs are correct you have nothing to fear in testing them. If not, it is in your best interest to find out why and how they are incorrect.”

“? So Nigal you've decided there are no absolute truths recently??

Oh no, there are absolutes for sure. I do however believe that just because we adopt an absolute for our own personal lives that that absolute is an actual absolute. Yes, there is one absolute and the journey of our lives is to find that absolute and get as close to the mark as possible.

?I agree Nigal but that should not stop us from trying to find the truth, or cause us to think that there is no such thing as truth?

Absolutely. How we find that truth can be very important. If we attempt to find truth from only one source or point of view we can totally miss the true truth. Which brings us to?

?Is testing your faith doubt? Are the two compatible??

It is anything BUT doubt. If we believe something to be true we should have no fear of any scrutiny that can be put to it. If it is true it will come out. The big problem is that we must go outside of our faith to truely test it. Faith is god, blind faith?bad. There is a place for logic in faith. In fact it is a necessity.”

“"There are very few facts that CAN'T be disputed about the laws of nature."
Biz, Freudian slip? ;-)

i guess you couldn't help but wonder about this, M SILVER. everyone is destined to live up to their name, hmm? (silver = shiny combination of black and white)

but anyway. what if truth IS uncertainty, vascillation, motion? here's a quote about the yin and yang:

"Yin and Yang are metaphorical images used to express these constantly transforming interactions. They have no fixed, precise definition. Rather, they describe two broad categories of complementary concepts which include the relationships of positive and negative, dynamic and inert, creative and destructive, gross and subtle, and kinetic and potential. This is quite similar to the notion of dialectics as expressed in Western philosophy. Within dialectics the whole is the sum of its parts and in turn part of the sum of a greater whole. As these various components interact, things become their opposites; i.e., variables become constants, causes become effects, and the process of creation leads to destruction. Furthermore, this idea is demonstrated in modern physics where sub-atomic interactions are the result of ever shifting polarities and constantly vacillating magnetic attractions and repulsions.

The entire universe may be viewed as the interplay and alternation of yin and yang. Originally the Chinese characters for yin represented the moon and yang represented the sun. Gradually these terms were broadened to include yin as night and yang as day, yin as winter and yang as summer, and yin as female and yang as male. In fact, there is nothing which cannot be viewed from the standpoint of yin and yang.

Yin and Yang are metaphorical images used to express these constantly transforming interactions. They have no fixed, precise definition. Rather, they describe two broad categories of complementary concepts which include the relationships of positive and negative, dynamic and inert, creative and destructive, gross and subtle, and kinetic and potential. This is quite similar to the notion of dialectics as expressed in Western philosophy. Within dialectics the whole is the sum of its parts and in turn part of the sum of a greater whole. As these various components interact, things become their opposites; i.e., variables become constants, causes become effects, and the process of creation leads to destruction. Furthermore, this idea is demonstrated in modern physics where sub-atomic interactions are the result of ever shifting polarities and constantly vacillating magnetic attractions and repulsions.

The entire universe may be viewed as the interplay and alternation of yin and yang. Originally the Chinese characters for yin represented the moon and yang represented the sun. Gradually these terms were broadened to include yin as night and yang as day, yin as winter and yang as summer, and yin as female and yang as male. In fact, there is nothing which cannot be viewed from the standpoint of yin and yang.

Yin and Yang are metaphorical images used to express these constantly transforming interactions. They have no fixed, precise definition. Rather, they describe two broad categories of complementary concepts which include the relationships of positive and negative, dynamic and inert, creative and destructive, gross and subtle, and kinetic and potential. This is quite similar to the notion of dialectics as expressed in Western philosophy. Within dialectics the whole is the sum of its parts and in turn part of the sum of a greater whole. As these various components interact, things become their opposites; i.e., variables become constants, causes become effects, and the process of creation leads to destruction. Furthermore, this idea is demonstrated in modern physics where sub-atomic interactions are the result of ever shifting polarities and constantly vacillating magnetic attractions and repulsions.

The entire universe may be viewed as the interplay and alternation of yin and yang. Originally the Chinese characters for yin represented the moon and yang represented the sun. Gradually these terms were broadened to include yin as night and yang as day, yin as winter and yang as summer, and yin as female and yang as male. In fact, there is nothing which cannot be viewed from the standpoint of yin and yang.

Yin and Yang are metaphorical images used to express these constantly transforming interactions. They have no fixed, precise definition. Rather, they describe two broad categories of complementary concepts which include the relationships of positive and negative, dynamic and inert, creative and destructive, gross and subtle, and kinetic and potential. This is quite similar to the notion of dialectics as expressed in Western philosophy. Within dialectics the whole is the sum of its parts and in turn part of the sum of a greater whole. As these various components interact, things become their opposites; i.e., variables become constants, causes become effects, and the process of creation leads to destruction. Furthermore, this idea is demonstrated in modern physics where sub-atomic interactions are the result of ever shifting polarities and constantly vacillating magnetic attractions and repulsions.

The entire universe may be viewed as the interplay and alternation of yin and yang. Originally the Chinese characters for yin represented the moon and yang represented the sun. Gradually these terms were broadened to include yin as night and yang as day, yin as winter and yang as summer, and yin as female and yang as male. In fact, there is nothing which cannot be viewed from the standpoint of yin and yang."

p.s. the best beer ever is Blue Moon ;-)”

“WOAH!! sorry about all the repetition!! it didn't look like it was copying it! oopsie :-)”

“okay! okay! I get your point!

LOLOL

Where do they make Blue Moon?”

“i just looked it up, it's actually made by Coors. hmmm. it's deeelish, though! you put a lemon in it...fruity :-) i was partly making a "changeable" joke, though..."Moon," hardy-har-har.

where do they make your fave?”

“If everyone would watch the movie "Freddy Got Fingered", you'll find that many of life's questions are answered.”

“Aaaaaa! All of this is too confusing....I am going bp'ing.”

“adolph coors was a nazi!”

“LOL, this is just like backpacking conversations when out just a little to long. LOL”

“woah! anyone know where i can get some gaitors? the irony is getting too thick in here! :-D

(p.s. you'd Buddur drink his beer, and you'd Buddur like it, rad.)”

“coors is the pee of the DEVIL!”

“well here's a beer bong...down enough of it and, appropriately enough, you'll feel like god!”