Technical Climbing

“Anyone else out there into technical climbing? If so, where did you get your start, the gym or real rock? Do you prefer sport, lead, or top rope? I have recently taken up the sport and I might even like it better than hiking, if you can believe that. It's a great way to get in shape! I'm starting to see a lot more definition in my arms and legs just after 1 month of climbing. Also, if you climb what type of strenght training do you do on your off days?”

“Real rock is the only way to go! Gyms are good for strength training and that's about it. I perfer long traditional routes to sport climbing.
Push ups, pull ups, anything to work on forearm and hand strength, and minimal weight training.
The better you get the more you will rely on your feet to move and support your weight and less on your upper body strength. This will save you major amounts of energy and fatigue.”

“I've been climbing since I was a little kid. As I got older and my backpacking trips got longer, my climbing got more technical. Sort of an extension of backpacking, like, "How do I get up (or down) there?"

This was all free-climbing, for years I didn't know that anyone other than mountaineers used climbing-specific equipment. I grew up in Nebraska, not a real hot-spot for technical rock-climbing.

Eventually I purchased a rope and harness for rappelling, with the intent of getting to a specific destination. That led to, "Hmm, I could climb on that rope and not worry about falling.

Now I've been doing roped technical climbing for about 3 years. All top-rope, sometimes with a Silent Partner for self-belay. I've never been in a gym or on a sport climb. I would love to learn to lead.

Living in Southern Illinois I'm lucky to have several incredible crags within an hour of my house.”

“I got into it many years ago, backpacking in Yosemite and bagging peaks (much like you right now). We were climbing things that required ropes and almost lost it a couple of times. My partner and I made lot of mistakes before we were finally smart enough to get lessons at Yosemite School of Mountaineering. We learned much on our own, there was very little in the way of instruction back then, hell, it only went up to 5.10 and aid was considered a Hard Mans sport. Things have changed a lot since then, betas, to bolt or not to bolt, red points, pink points, chipping holds..ethics seem to change every month. I'm very old school.

I teach climbing and I am amazed at the lack of proper instruction...at least half to three quarters of the people I see don't know how to belay properly, let alone set up an anchor. Not to pick on plastic climbers but...some of them are the worst, they come to the cliffs from a climbing wall after doing a few 5.11's or 12's, with out really understanding the technique of lead climbing, proper rope management or the physics of placing protection. I have watched guys ground because their belayer forgot they we not using a GriGri like in the gym!

Top roping offers all the workout, most of the excitement and less potential for serious injury (If done properly!!!) then lead. Climbing gyms offer a relativity safe and sanitized climbing experience, just don't think because you can do 5.12 in the gym you are ready to lead 5.12 in the wilds. Sport climbing is basically gym climbing on real rock, with a bolt every 6 feet, nothing wrong with that, it just lacks the realism and excitement of traditional lead climbing. Lead climbing is for the committed, willing to risk serious injury. It offers unsurpassed excitement (especially if you don't use betas or guide books) , major adrenalin, the ultimate feeling of accomplishment and the total outdoors experience. From what I have seen of your mountaineering and back packing experience you seem like a perfect candidate for trad.....oh hell its all good, if your motives are! Do everything right and with a little luck you will live to be an old fart like me....but if you do it long enough, someone you know will die from it, I lost three friends in two years.

I don't do 5.11's anymore, I don't climb much above 14'000 feet anymore and I climb ice like an old lady now....but I'll never quite climbing.


My advice is get lessons, better yet find a mentor, someone that has been around awhile and has a good reputation among the real climbers, not the posers.


Just do it!”

“I've done quite a bit of free climbing and a tiny smidgeon of rappelling. I would love to expand to technical climbing and do more rappelling so just go ahead and load up this thread with resources and advice!”

“Hey sklukaz, if you are going to be starting out in a gym, I would highly recommend the book "Gym Climb" by John Long. It goes through the fundamentals about equipment, safety, training tips, etc. . . I have found it to be most helpful. I have to admit though, it would have been useless and all Greek to me had I not taken a lesson first.

mtnsteve, did you lose your friends due to human error or equipment failure? Just curious because my instructor was trying to tell me that the vast majority of the accidents that occur in climbing are due to human error. I find this hard to belive in an outdoor environment where there are so many unknowns. and yes, so far top roping has been my favorite. I feel quite safe doing it.

Thanks everyone for the info. Keep it rolling.

Peace!”

“Oh yeah, I said that I might like this better than hiking, not really. What I really like is hiking and stumbling upon a nice slab to free climb. that's what I did this past weekend. The rock was about 40' high and maybe topped out at a 5.7 in difficulty, nonetheless, it was cool. Climbing shoes are definitely on the list of gear to take hiking from now on.”

“"Mountaineering, The Freedom of the Hills", is a book that everyone interested in climbing on real rock should read.

Some of the things that I worked on a lot in the beginning are rope management, knots, and anchor set-up. You can practice these things at home.”

“I really wanted to stick with real rock mountainchick, but thanks. Is that instructional or anecdotal m-nutz?”

“The trick is not to fall!!!”

“Naw, it's ok to fall you just want to stop well before the ground!”

“My experience is kind of like mtnsteve's. I started backpacking, followed shortly by a lot of peak climbing, and a little 4th class climbing. I went off to college, and was one hour away from Yosemite. We went there every weekend from labor day to memorial day, either cross country skiing or rock climbing. The first time up there was with 3 others, one an experienced rock climber and two total novices. He assumed since I had climbed a lot of peaks I knew how to rockclimb, so loaned me a small rack of nuts and a few slings, and said "here's a good one for Bob to lead, and (the other guy) to follow". It was a route called After Seven, a two pitch, pretty steep, 5.7 climb. I looked at the nuts and chocks, and said "what are these things for?" He said "you jam them in cracks for protection." I had used pitons, so that made sense to me. I led the 5.7 climb, and it was pretty scary, but fun. I did a lot of 5.6 to 5.8 climbs in Yosemite, and thats hard enough for me. They were usually very steep and very exposed.

Later I got into Mt. Rescue, and now I teach backpacking and winter survival. I still climb a peak now and then, and backpack with the family.

Gym climbing looks like what we used to do on boulders, and called bouldering. You can do very hard moves that way, because you can keep trying it until you get it right. Climbing in the mountains is very different, because the exposure is far greater, the weather can be bad, the approaches can be events in themselves, the rock can be crumbly or rotten. I'll take climbing in the mountains every time, but the gym could be a good way to stay in shape and hone skills.

So, for those climbers who are way out of date like me, what are betas, red points, pink points, and silent partners?

As far as accidents, if you do high risk activities, the odds and time are not on your side. However, you can do mountaineering and climbing and not be high risk. You can help your odds a lot by having good habits, and well rehearsed skills of setting up anchors and rapelling, and using protection when climbing. I think having a partner with similar safe habits is a big help. I've climbed with people who had no fear, and they were truly dangerous.”

“In all my years, I can't recall seeing a serious accident that was actually caused by equipment failure, improper use of the equipment, yes, but not failure of the gear. Two of my friends died from human error and one from rock fall during a solo climb (that could also be called human error I realize). Avalanches, rock fall and weather kill a lot of folks out there, even with good training you sometimes make bad choices...and sometimes stuff just happens.

I always teach my friends and clients that climbing is like playing poker...you are betting your life, so always put all the odds in your favor, be it climbing at night to avoid some risk of rock fall, wearing a helmet or constant training as a team or individual...each decision you make affects your hand, when you lay your cards down and commit, your laying your life down....and don't bluff, the mountains don't care. Your not allowed a lot of mistakes up there.

m-nutz is right about "Mountaineering, The Freedom of the Hills", it's THE book.


Idaho Bob is right on, especially about partners...One of the safest things you can do is be lucky and smart enough to find a good partner and train together till you both think alike...better yet, till you think as one, it's almost a Zen like experience. I have a partner I started training 14 years ago (she's climbing Ama Dablam right now) we used to freak out other climbers... they said watching us climb was spooky because instead of talking , we would just look at each other, nod and continue climbing. It's hard to describe, but we always new what the other was thinking...she used to say that when we climbed, we shared the same head. It saved our lives more often than I would like to admit. If you climb with a fool, sooner or later you will have to put your ass on the line to save them, trust me.


Idaho Bob, we gotta chat sometime.”

“My caving days kinda got me into Climbing. I was always comfortable on rope so that's what got me started. I liked to start out on a sport route and then do some Trad. Lead climbing was split 50/50 with my partner. We loved multi-pitch routes best. Devils Tower was our biggie.

I suffered a hand injury a few years ago and I no longer Rock climb. I could do easy stuff but it ain't the same. About 2 weeks before I got hurt, I'd just lead my first 11a.”

“Never done any of it, but this is a very, very interesting thread...”

“Ya, I know. I don't understand a word of it, but I'm soakin' it up like a sponge.”

“People are natural climbers. It is a natural response to want to climb-although it can scare the hell out of you!
I started climbing because eventually we did so much backpacking, the only way to get to new spots was to learn how to climb. Now almost every backpacking trip I do involves climbing. Most of it is not hard (5.2-5.8's), but there's a psychological aspect it-climbing in the middle of nowhere, where rescue is often a day or to away (if at all)-that scares the crap out of you! This is totally different than climbing at popular sport climbing craigs. It is natural to want to take things to the next level and continually challenge oneself. This applies to all aspects of your life. Good luck mountainchick, you will love it!”

“Just started climbing this past summer with the club at work. Tried it in '96 with runnings shoes and then again this summer. Got some climbing shoes & gear at the REI summer sale and now have now done 3 trip, with the level between 5.5 and 5.8.

We just climbed Mt Tyndall (14,018') as a side trip on our JMT trek, which is Class 2&3. Somehow we got off trail and I ended up on some 5.8 stuff, with a 2000' drop, without ropes. The only way out was to climb up, and I was thankful I remembered stuff I learned from my instructors. I guess that could be considered a terrifying heart-pounding 1/2 hour or so.”

“Some climbing rules to OBEY!

1) Climb safe
2) Stay friends
3) Make it to the top

Also some givens:

Bones heal, bleeding stops, and dudes dig chicks that climb!!

Climb on!!!”

“4) Never drop your pro

5) if you do, know how to emergency repel or get religious (this is the most valuable thing I can tell you)”

“You said it didjfan!”

“Yep, dudes dig chicks that climb on big things!! Dang...I'm bad today. Lol”

“sklukaz - "Mountaineering..." is an instructional book. Like mtnsteve said, "it's THE book". It was originally written as a text book for guide schools. It has now been updated to reflect changing technology.”

“DUDES DIG CHICKS THAT CLIMB!!!!!! YEAH BABY! I put the climb in climber baby, yeah. . . he he!

Lots of great info here. Thanks. I'm getting that mountaineering book today!”

“Idaho Bob - here's some definitions for ya

beta - Information given about a route or climb. You are giving someone beta when you give them instuction on a climb. Overheard at the crag... belayer- "There's a big jug (large, easy to grab handhold) 2 ft right and 3 ft above your right hand. Pull-up with your left and grab for it." climber- "Shut-up, I know where the jug is! I don't need beta, I need biceps!"

redpoint - To climb a route successfully without falling or hanging in your harness, after numerous failed attempts.

pinkpoint - To redpoint a climb where the protection and runners have been pre-placed. This is a "sport-climbing" term.

Silent Partner - A mechanical self-belay device made by Wren Industries. It contains a speed-acctuated clutch that will lock up during a fall. See the Silent Partner thread for more info.”

“Tnx m-nutz.”

“mountainchick, I have it and it is ZZzzzz boring. I like How to Rock Climb, just the basics, just what you need to know.

Unless you want to know how to scale Everest, that book is overkill”

“Tnx to you too Biz.

I'm starting a list.”