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Animal Rights

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RE: Animal Rights
i've always thought eating animals was grrrossss (even though i do it sometimes). when i was a little kid, i decided to be a vegetarian. and one night, my parents made "vegetable stew" for dinner. i thought it tasted a little weird, and after pestering them about it, i found out they'd put DEER MEAT in it, eewww!!! now THAT was trauma! i didn't want to be a flesh-eating zombie, they made me do it...
lyra
3:49:47 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
MMMMMMMMM, deer brains
stix4legs
3:54:12 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
puke-o-rama! that's the last time i ever ate deer, i'll tell ya what.
lyra
3:55:05 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
lyra's last 4 posts were about pee and meat. hmm....
radagast
3:56:03 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
coincidence? i think snot!
lyra
4:00:21 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
see ya in virginia! adios!
radagast
4:06:34 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
au revoir :-) you're leaving tonight? okay, well, i'll prolly see ya anyway. i'm still about 70-30 undecided...d'oh!
lyra
4:09:30 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
no, i'm leaving eeeeeeearly tomorrow.
radagast
6:24:20 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
Some local pranksters put a dead deer in a McDonalds restroom last week.

"I'll have the Big Mac and an order of venison please."
bacpac
7:02:53 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
What about dog? Sorry Sarabelle. I wouldn't think about eating my best friend but would my best friend think about making a meal of its owner?
Lobo
7:29:51 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
cats would eat us, if we weren't so big.
radagast
8:40:44 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
A cat looks just like a rabbit once you skin it.
bacpac
8:46:44 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
there's more than one way to do that.
radagast
8:53:29 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
Stix4legs, I read in Backpacker magazine, that a guy (forgot his name) who teaches survival skills, uses deer brains to tan animal hides.

There are stories of old pet owners who died, with their dogs or cats locked in the house. After a long time, the pets started to eat the dead person.

And I'm not going kayaking with you cannibals.
stanlee
11:37:45 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
So your saying that you all will eat your horse and your buddy but you will leave your dog alone?
Lobo
11:49:41 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
You can?t have your quarter-horse and eat it too.
Nigal
11:56:22 PM
11/01/01

RE: Animal Rights
Dog sledding is better than skidoo-ing. In the arctic, if an Eskimo is caught in very cold conditions outside, sometimes they would kill 1 or 2 of their dogs and open them up to use as a blanket. The dogs' body heat will keep the person alive...plus he gets fresh meat. Can't do that with a skidoo.
stanlee
2:57:30 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
stanlee- It was the Andes. After being stranded there for months and months, and sending out parties to find a way out, they found out they were less than 5 miles from a Mountain village--

I think I would have to eat the airplane seats before eating human flesh to survive. There are probably many parts of an airplane that are edible. Just ask Yul Gibbons.

If you don't know who Yul Gibbons is/was Uh... ask your grandmother.
MukTuk
3:44:51 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
Lobo, is that how quarter pounders really got their name?
sklukaz
7:17:28 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
I would eat Sarabelle if neccessary.

Dog sledders deliberately ate their dogs - it was part of the plan. As the cargo became lighter (food consumption) they could decrease the number of dogs required to pull it. It was a win/win situation(?).

"Every animal has enough brains to tan it's own hide".
I forget where I read hat.
gojo
8:45:36 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
and what's that movie where the guy hides in a bloated carcass of some animal in a river? yummers!
lyra
10:00:41 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
Yule Gibbons is dead -
he broke his back while trying to eat his nuts.
gojo
11:47:30 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
No gojo, he broke his neck! Didn't you see "Clerks"? ;-)
BobK
11:53:23 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
i love "Clerks," that movie rocks! :-) still don't remember who Yule Gibbons is, however...
lyra
11:57:15 AM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
lyra -

You wouldn't remember Yule Gibbons. He became famous by eating things he found in Nature in the 1970's - now he's dead.
Violin
12:02:06 PM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
things found in nature, LOL! let that be a lesson...
lyra
12:09:04 PM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
Yule did a (Grape Nuts?) commercial.
"Hello, I'm Yule Gibbons. Ever eat a pine tree? You know, some parts are edible."

Me and a HS chum did a little skit:
Him: "I'm Yule."
Me: "I'm Mule."
Us: "We're the Gibbons."





I guess you had to be there...
gojo
2:01:44 PM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
Yule did a (Grape Nuts?) commercial.
"Hello, I'm Yule Gibbons. Ever eat a pine tree? You know, some parts are edible."

Me and a HS chum did a little skit:
Him: "I'm Yule."
Me: "I'm Mule."
Us: "We're the Gibbons."





I guess you had to be there...
gojo
2:02:56 PM
11/02/01

RE: Animal Rights
Thanks for the heads-up MukTuk. I saw that documentary/movie a few years ago...pretty depressing.
Human flesh will give you more energy than leather belts or shoes. In Charlie Chaplin's "Gold Rush" he boiled his shoes for food.
stanlee
5:33:56 AM
11/03/01

RE: Animal Rights
I never saw the movie/documentary. Read the book a couple of years ago. They also ate toothpaste and someone had some chocolates and a bottle of liquor or some kind.

Enjoyed that book so much I read an old account of the Donner Party after that. This particular one was written by someone who had interviewed the survivors or people who knew the survivors. Pretty gnarly stuff. Interesting thing is their Indian guides absolutely refused to partake in cannibalism.
MukTuk
9:19:19 PM
11/03/01

RE: Animal Rights
Yeah. then they chased 'em down in the blizzard, shot 'em and brought 'em back for dinner -- as the main course.
roseymonster
4:02:13 PM
11/04/01

RE: Animal Rights
Buddur
12:28:55 AM
11/05/01

RE: Animal Rights
But then they're setting themselves up for the human form of Bovine Spongeform Encephalopathy ('Mad Cow Disease'). I guess if they're already zombies, what the hell, eh?

I'll stick with gorp, m'self...
Tilt
2:04:00 AM
11/05/01

RE: Animal Rights
lyra -- the guy hiding in the animal carcass, was that Rob Roy?

If not it was some other movie set centuries ago...
Fritz
11:17:45 PM
11/05/01

RE: Animal Rights
OK, so most seam to be in agreement that animals are born with no rights; at least not rights as we humans know them as. But here is the question to ponder:

Do we have any responsibilities to animals and if so, what are they?
Nigal
1:09:43 AM
11/06/01

RE: Animal Rights
We were given dominion over the beasts and the land (Genesis).
"Believer" or not, most of us would prolly concur that we have an obligation to treat nature with respect and a sense of responsibility.

Not to worry tho -
If we screw it up royally, this 'ol gal will bounce back in no time. Say a half billion years...
gojo
3:41:11 PM
11/06/01

RE: Animal Rights
yeah, i think it might've been *Rob Roy,* Fritz, i can't quite remember...

Nigal, i was very much into "animal rights" for a long time. was a vegetarian for about 5 years, and then a vegan for another 4. i've never in my life eaten red meat (except for that disgusting deer incident). i'm a very illogical person, so the philosophy of whether animals have "rights" doesn't hold my attention for long. but i've felt so bad about eating animals, and sometimes still do, that i physically can't do it. i used to think that i was 100% right in thinking that animals should not be eaten. now my sense of right and wrong is not so clear-cut, to say the least...one of the by-products of age, i guess. also, i just sort of lost my passion for veganism...my passion just moved on to something else, and it felt fake to practice it. however, i do feel that humans ARE animals, or at least partly, and every other animal reminds me of myself. so having respect for my own life extends to having respect for every other form of life.
lyra
3:56:14 PM
11/06/01

RE: Animal Rights
Long pig, Hey GS my father-in-law warned me about that before I went to Morocco. He was treated to some when he was there in the 50's after they told him what he was eating he said he just shruged his shoulders and kept on eating. Also, when in Spain, if you dont want to eat horse order the 'beefsteak' instead of just 'steak.'
broken
4:49:22 PM
11/06/01

RE: Animal Rights
Nigal, I am not sure what responsibilities we have towards animals as people in general.

But as you know I love hunting. In the last 5 seasons I have taken 8 or 9 deer. I hope to take a few more this season (9 days and counting!!!!). I will NOT hunt with bow or gun unless I have practised prior to the hunt. With bow that means starting in July,3-4 days per wk 15 min per day. Rifle,atleast one trip to the range (to verify accuracy). I havent "lost" a deer I have shot yet. Hopefully never. Half the deer I have killed died without knowing they were hit. The other half knew. That is an awful feeling knowing that the animal suffers. But animals suffer in nature...

I guess what I am saying is that I (stress I) am responsible to kill as humanely as possible,and to not waste what I kill. To not kill for the sake of killing, or for trophies for that matter.
birch
9:28:15 PM
11/06/01

RE: Animal Rights
Nigal - That's a great question. It's my feeling that humans have an obligation to minimize animal suffering and fear. I'm no friend of PETA (their wacky tactics are too much. Remember hearing about the group that "liberated" a slew of mink in Ontario a few years ago in the middle of Winter? I think most of them ended up as mink-sicles or road kill as they were captive born and never had an opportunity to learn how to cope in the wild) but I won't eat veal or fois-gras as the methods used to produce these products can't be justified. For me, it comes down to; does the benefit to the human consumer outweigh the costs to the animal?

I have a good friend who worked in a slaughterhouse (cattle and pigs) in rural Michigan for a few months. I eventually had to ask him to stop telling me the stories. They're that bad.

Having said that, humans are at the top of the food chain. I hunted and killed my first turkey last Spring. It was a clean kill. I am sure that, at some level, the bird suffered. But, as Birch says, life in nature is often brutish and short. The flock will be better off less that one jake and the hunt connected me with nature in a way that backpacking can't.

I wonder how you feel about zoos and factory farms, especially the poultry industry. Most of what I've seen of that has really been horrific, e.g. beak clipping.
Max
2:36:18 PM
11/07/01

RE: Animal Rights
As a society, we Americans (and most all other industrialized countries, I would imagine), have enacted laws pertaining to the stewardship of our wild and domesticated animals.

For instance -
What if someone was neglegent as a horse owner? Busted! We've all seen the news stories of folks who are prosecuted for animal abuse, maltreatment, etc.

Then there are all the fish and game laws...

Medical research? Touchy topic - but I tend to believe that the research staffs are as kind and gentle as would be possible.

I stopped and picked up an injured owl along the interstate in NC last year. I dropped it off at a vet in Raleigh. Many, many other people would have done the same thing.

Was it California where a large-scale project was delayed (cancelled?) due to the presence of the endangered snail darter (minnow)?

I have a cousin that raises broilers (six houses). He uses the litter (exclusively) to fertilize the 600 - 700 acres that he farms. That's pretty earth-friendly, IMO. The chickens are pretty well cared for, too.

BTW - What's a vegan?
gojo
3:21:15 PM
11/07/01

RE: Animal Rights
A vegan is someone who will use no animal products whatsoever. That is a tough life indeed. It's also a small group of people who drive a Chevy car from the 70's. 8) I am a vegetarian. I do not eat meat but I do eat dairy and eggs. I don?t eat meat for the health reasons and as I now follow Judaism as a Gentile I am prohibited from eating meat torn from a live animal. The animal must be completely dead and not moving before butchering begins. This is not done in modern assembly line style slaughterhouses. Kosher meats would be OK.

I think Gojo has summed up the things that keep us accountable to the creatures we are responsible for. As far as zoos go I think they are a necessity for learning how to preserve the animals. I?m sure there are right ways and wrong ways to treat animals in the zoo. Now circuses, that?s something altogether different. That is mistreatment and abuse of animals for no other reason but entertainment.
Nigal
5:04:27 PM
11/07/01

RE: Animal Rights
I'm with you on circuses. I last visited the zoo a few years ago and although I love checking out the animals, I came away with a bit of a guilty feeling. The limited existnece they live just bothers me (I know, 'don't go'). For instance, it was damn hot out and there were the polar bears, baking in the Detroit sun. For what? So folks can oggle and say "cute!"
Just seems like they're entitled to better.

gojo - I saw a couple of videos several years ago. Not sure who produced them, but their anti-factory bias was clear. Anyway, there was a scene where farm worker sat with tubs of young chicks on either side. He'd grab one, puts its beak in the machine in front of him and whack, off with its beak. I think the necessity was to take away their ability to fight. It really stuck with me. Six houses sounds pretty big. Glad to hear he makes use of the waste.
max
6:26:13 PM
11/08/01

RE: Animal Rights
I say we should have an international buffet. Have a dish of every animal known to man. I bet it would taste good.
ice tea
6:30:00 PM
11/08/01

RE: Animal Rights
i like the mice...they are mighty tasty on a stick!
vixtrix
6:41:22 PM
11/08/01

RE: Animal Rights
Not to mention what a waste of water cattle are. Not to mention a crap they produce. Not to mention all the rain forests in S. America they're cutting down to raise cattle for U.S. beef eaters.

Sadly, I love hamburgers, prime rib and a nice juicy NY strip.
roseymonster
6:45:00 PM
11/08/01

RE: Animal Rights
Have you ever heard about the national sport of Afghanistan?

Afghan National Sport (Buzkashi)








Buzkashi, which literally

translated means "goat grabbing" is the national sport of Afghanistan.

Many historians believe that Buzkashi began with the Turkic-Mongol people,

and it is indigenously shared by the people of Northern Afghanistan. There are two

main types of Buzkashi, Tudabarai and Qarajai. Tudabarai is relatively simple

compared with Qarajai, even though they share similar objectives.





In Buzkashi, a headless carcass

is placed in the center of a circle and surrounded by the players of two

opposing teams. The object of the game, is to get control of the carcass

and bring it to the scoring area. Although it seems like a simple task,

it is not. Only the most masterful players, (called chapandaz) ever even

get close to the carcass. The competition is fierce, and the winner of

a match receives prizes that have been donated by a sponsor. These prizes

range from money, to fine turbans and clothes. In order for someone to

become a chapandaz, one must undergo a tremendous amount of difficult training.

In fact, the best chapandaz, are usually over the age of forty. Buzkashi,

is definitely not a game for the weak.





The players are not the only

ones who undergo arduous training; the horses that participate in buzkashi

must train for five years before ever making it to the playing field. Buzkashi,

is indeed a dangerous sport, but intensive training and excellent communication

between the horse and rider can help minimize the risk of injury.




The different types of Buzkashi: Tudabarai & Qarajai





In Tudabarai, in order to

score, the rider must obtain possession of the carcass and then carry it

away from the starting circle in any direction. The rider must stay free

and clear of the other riders.










In Qarajai, the task is much more complex. The player

must carry the calf around a marker, and then return the carcass to the

team's designated scoring circle.











In each version of the game, points are awarded

for successfully completing the task of getting control of the carcass,

and getting it to the proper scoring area. The winner of each match receives

prizes which have been put up by a sponsor. The top prizes are usually

money, or fine clothes.





To many Afghans, Buzkashi is not just a game, it

is a way of life; a way in which teamwork and communication are essential

to being successful.



Violin
9:28:14 AM
11/09/01

RE: Animal Rights
I work in Norfolk,VA and the headquarters of PETA is here, right on he bank of one of the local rivers. Today a local radio station is holding a fishing tournament right in front of there building. The tournament has one sponsor, a local furrier that they often protest.
broken
9:54:05 AM
11/09/01

RE: Animal Rights
LOL!
Sounds like a job for the PETA Special Ops SCUBA squad!
gojo
11:24:03 AM
11/09/01

RE: Animal Rights
Buzkashi, Buzsmashy, who cares!

We got the same thing in the US, but we don't make it easy by killing the goat first.

It is called a rodeo.
bacpac
1:37:17 PM
11/09/01

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