The Northern Alliance No Better Than Tal iban

“I heard they're executing POWs for fun. Whats going to happen when they become the Taliban? Seriously, can we actually control the fate of Afganistan? Or is this whole thing gonna spin out of control and make us look like fools?”

“1) Nobody really knows.
2) Almost certainly not.
3) Quite possibly.

Maybe it will be a disaster. Maybe we're just starting another 10 years of civil war in Afghanistan. I don't think the most optimistic people can say with any certainty that it'll all work out, any more than the most negative can really be certain that what we're doing is wrong. However...

To their credit, the commander who captured Mazar-al-Sharaf (apologies if I got the name wrong) did issue edicts reopening the schools, and permitting women to resume normal life (e.g., going out unaccompanied by men). So in at least one place, in at least one very important and concrete respect, they have proven themselves to be much better than the Taliban.”

“Of course we can't control the fate of Afghanistan, nor should we. It's their country, not ours. And the Northern Alliance is probably not a whole hellluva lot better than the Taliban in some respects, but overall, a step forward for a country that still is several hundred years behind the western world in many areas.

Progress is slow...see Tehipite's post, he's correct.

So thinair, what's YOUR solution?”

“It's only natural that there will be some grudges avenged.

The civilians are cheering as the NA liberates their areas and women are reported to be burning their head garb.

What right do we have to tell Afghani's what to do? Where were we before Sept 11? It's their country, they have suffered incredibly under the ignorant and barbaric Taliban tribesmen and their fanatical mercenaries. Who are we to tell the NA to stop freeing fellow Afghani's from these people? I think we should carry on with our mission to get bin Laden and keep our big hypocritical holier than thou words to ourselves. They don't have to prove anything to us, it's their country.”

“Wanderer, correct...we can't nor should we.

What we DO want to control is whether Al Quaida has a safe harbour anywhere, and whether the new government in Afghanistan--or any government anywhere--feels safe harboring terrorists.

To the extent that Taliban is "executed" by the NA, I weep, not for the Taliban, but for all of mankind. Even so, I feel no regret for what my country has done.

Perhaps the next handful of years will show that we have erred. I doubt it.

But we shall see.”

“Poll on CNN.com today:

Do you trust the Northern Alliance?

Yes - 24%
No - 76%”

“Tehipete is on target.
I might add: the Northern Alliance aren't working with Al Qeda and Bin Laden.

The US has to make a balance between trying to positively influence events and trying to control them.”

“Not to generalize, but you have to look at Afghani culture, for the most part it's tribal where vendetta's and inter-tribal warfare has been a way of life for centuries. We are/were co-operating with the NA because our interests coincidentally happen to be similar. Don't expect them to fall over themselves in gratitude or to see us as role models. We're a means to an end and so are they. It's their way of life to be untrusting amongst themselves let alone us. Why should they trust us when our main ally in the area, Pakistan supported the Taliban? Also , we have proven ourselves to be fly by night untrustworthy allies before...just look at what happened to the Kurds in Iraq after our "support".”

“"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

"Politics produces strange bedfellows."

Yup. It is very utilitarian, and it gets very twisted. But I have a much higher tolerance for it in this context than I would, say, in personal relationships. ;-)”

“me too!”

“I don't think anyone expected the taliban to give up and run so quickly. I am looking forward to Winter so we can pinpoint every cave with heat sensors and bury them alive.”

“Some Afgan men are shaving their beards. Under the Taliban, the men had to have beards at just the right lengths or there was trouble to pay.”

“And hey! They've got tunes!

Pop in that Bachman-Turner 8-track, wouldja? Thanks.


Let it roll!
Down the highway!”

“Off with their beards!

Hope this next weekend's meteor shower doesn't knock out some of our spy satalites...wouldn't that suck! Heck, over there, they'd prolly mistake a metoer shower for fighting in the adjacent town.”

“There's singing, dancing, laughter, shaving, and women disrobing. It sounds like it's going to be hell under the NA. LOL!”

“Good post Tehipite. The killing of POWs is a part of war. It happens in every single war. Some of the pow prisons in the civil war were worse than concentration camps.

I saw that we are still bombing the crap out of the Taliban as they run and some are saying that's going too far. We should continue bombing until they surender, not just run.

War is hell.”

“The NA is "The lesser of two evils", I think/hope..”

“The NA has invited the UN, and all of the humanitarian organizations to return to Kabul.”

“We chose them because they were the lesser of two evils and the most likely to succeed. I'm glad to see it is turning out well. I only hope it continues to do so.”

“they are simply letting revenge get the best of them. it's human nature and hard to control.”

“Some things are understandable, given the harshness they've had to live with.”

“I'm grateful that the women will be treated better. I thank God that I was born in the United States!!!!!!”

“Amen to that, Sassafras!”

“The object is to eliminate a safe haven for the worldwide training and export of terrorism. Things are going better than we could hope for. Whatever the Afgan govt ends up being, it will likely be better than the Taliban. I just hope we have the resolve to finish it up this time.

What I wonder is if the foreign fighters in Afganistan are forced out, as they likely will be, where will they go? Repatriate them to Pakistan/Saudi/Chechnia?

I see Saudi Arabia as the kind of friend we don't need. They are another harbor and training ground for very anti-western and US attitudes. The only reason they keep the price of oil down is so that its not economical to develop alternative energy sources. We are addicts to their oil, and they are pushers.”

“I am amused by some of the statements above: "it's their country, not ours", "what right do we have to tell Afghani's what to do?", "The killing of POWs is a part of war" Just imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. What if the Taliban was pushing the Northern Alliance out and murdering POWs. What right would we have to tell them what to do?

I think it's good that the NA has the Taliban on the run. I just hope we haven't replaced one murderous, repressive regime with another. I hope that the NA (or our troops) have the border sealed as much as possible to prevent an exodus of trained terrorists from Afghanistan.”

“Watching the news today, it seems that the Northern Alliance is better organized today than the moment after victory. I hope for the best.”

“kleetn, the shoe has been on the other foot. Where were we?”

“I believe we were enjoying the fruits of the ecommerce bubble at the time, Gear Slut.”

“Did you hear about the group of soldiers that took Kandahar? They ran off the al Quaida, and then told the Northern Alliance not to even come near the city.

I think they have more than one outfit that wants to take care of their country. It will all eventually work out, the question is- to whos advatage?

Maybe the U.S. will end up with some new allies, and most certainly some new enemys.

Hey, we neede someone to fill in for the Soviet Union since they are all broke and stuff. LOL.”

“Better the devil you know...

No one expects Afghanistan to ever become a model democracy. The whole point of the war is to stop state sponsored terrorism. The Northern Alliance can be as despotic and genocidal as the Nazis but as long as they stop killing innocent people around the world we are still in the plus column.

Get the terrorism stopped first. Then we will decide on our relationship with the new Afghan government.”

“There were atrocities when Rabbani's government was in control before the Taliban took over (sponsored by outside forces, including Pakistan). I think that may be one of the reasons there wasn't more western aid after the Soviets withdrew. I think the eyes of the world are upon us now and it is important that we do all we can to promote a stable, just government that we can support and to help rebuild the country. It would deflate the arguments of a lot of the region's rabble-rousers if we can be seen as a source of good.

To say that we shouldn?t tell other cultures not to act barbaricly is to give our consent. I think we have a moral imperative to support human rights around the world whether despots are threatened by it or not. I think revenge killings are certainly understandable after decades of civil war but that doesn?t justify the NA actions and we should tell them so.”

“A quick way to piss off possible new friends, is to preach to them.

The only reason we're interfering in the politics of the region at this time is to appease our Pakistan ally. Pakistan is hardly a nation up for the good neighbor award as they supported the Taliban. By Mr. Bush's standards, we should be bombing the crap out of Pakistan too.”

“In Sept. when it was time to stand up and be counted, Afghanistan refused to cooperate with us. Pakistan supported our demands for bin Laden, publicly, at great political risk to the leadership there.”

“Yes, but we can see Pakistan still pushing for the Taliban to have a say in any new Afghani government. The last thing the Afghani's need is Pakistan continueing to meddle.”

“The diplomats of TT.

If there is any meddling to be done, it should be done by the United States! Ah, the science of social expermentation.

Moooo Haaaaa Haaaaaa”

“Are they pushing for Taliban participation or Pushtun (the dominant ethnic group in Afghanistan)?”

“By Mr. Bush's standards, we aren't bombing anyone for political meddling, we are bombing those who actively support terrorism.

Just thinking out loud...maybe Afg. would be more stable if the Taliban DID have a voice in the new government...I dunno.

It's a non-issue if they all fight to the death, as many have pledged to do, and I hope they remain faithful to their pledge.”

“Taliban vs. the ethnic group, good point Violin.”

“me too!

History has shown the US as being inept at foreign politics. We're better at humanitarian issues.”

“We do have a decent track record in exporting our values and helping to create other societies based upon human values. I'm referring to Japan and Germany specifically. Of course, the challenges are greater here than any we've ever faced before.”

“Many of the Talibani fighters are from Pakistan. And, the tribe that the Taliban was formed from is evenly dispersed among both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pakistan should definately be involved in any decisions made in Afghanistan, in order to keep the entire region stablized, and prevent the spread of Talibani discontent.

BTW - On a related note, with all these Pakistani's and Afghani's dying, who the heck is going to drive our cabs.
”

“GS - I agree, but hopefully we can learn from our mistakes of the past and do it right this time.”

“The US needs to stick with what they are good at. Forget humanitarian issues, abandon foreign policy.

We need more WAR.”

“War-what is it good for?

the economy
good topic to talk about
some folks get free trips to foreign contries (soldiers)

And like John Wayne said: " A day without blood is like a day without sunshine."”

“Violin- you are way on top of this stuff, and it seems to me like you know whats up. Keep us informed, I like it.”

“Per my earlier post about Kandahar, wrong city, it Jalalabad that was taken by some tribal doods and the chief told the Northern Alliance and the
Taliban to stay away.”

“Ambassador Violin, can you confirm tahoe's communique?”

“Evidently some non-Northern Alliance anti-Talliban's have taken the Kandahar airport. Maybe you did hear that Tahoe.”

“Ha-ha, thanks for the title bacpac. I like it.

Yes, according to the Pakistan-based Afghan Islamic Press, Yunus Khalis, a local mullah and a former guerrilla fighter, took control of Jalalabad after a deal was struck with Taliban forces in the city for their withdrawal. Khalis said he was independent of both the Taliban and the northern alliance.

Witnesses said Khalis' followers had also taken control of the Torkham border station to the east of Jalalabad and were preventing anyone - including Afghans - from entering the country.

Thanks for the compliment tahoe. While I do have an interest in this, I think there are many people on this site with an impressive understanding of current events. I'm an amateur. If you were trying to apologize for your comment on another thread, don't sweat a thing, I don't take this stuff seriously.”

“I saw that two of the American missionary prisoners were liberated by the NA.”