Military jets in the wilderness

“Have you ever backpacked in the peaceful wilderness and been blow out of your shorts by a military jet screaming by overhead no less than 300 feet off the deck? This happens every day in the Suiattle River valley in Glacier Peak Wilderness. Do they have the right to do this in a wilderness?”

“"Do they have the right to do this in a wilderness?" As opposed to what?? The right to do it in a heavily populated residential area??”

“Yes, I've had that happen. It happened many times while working in the Central Cascades. The maddening thing was they were gone before you knew what hit you. Usually Navy jets from Whidbey Island NAS.”

“Trees really don't care about sonic booms and animals care less then a lot of people. So yea, it is pretty common.”

“Have you polled the trees and animals on this, DM?”

“Yes, Rangley Lakes in Maine, I guess the terrain of northern Maine is a lot like the terrain around Moscow so jets used to do low flying mock bombing runs. It was scary at first but it was only about 30 seconds of noise and then they were gone. I also have nothing but respect for the insane pilots I saw flying the canyons near Escalante.”

“Yep ....I've seen them in the Kern Canyon...so close you could see the pilot.”

“I don't mind the military jets. It's those Damn gawking tourists.

i was bathing in a river once in the middle of Nowhere and a helicopter came over the ridge and dropped a little package on me, boy was I surprised

BB, contact that pilot for some compromising photographs (I forgot about this one)”

“What kind of package?”

“I had hiked most of the morning to get to the highest peak in Arkansas. I was tired. I heard the roar. Very strange at first then WHAM!!! I cried. Pride does that to me sometimes..”

“I was on the top of Wheeler Peak (in NM) and got "buzzed" by a couple F-4's back in the late 70's - I was close enough to see the pilots. Being that close to an F-4 in flight was frightening and exhilirating at the same time.

As for jets in wilderness areas, since most mountain ranges are within wilderness areas, I don't think the military has much choice if it wants to train pilots to fly close to the ground in mountainous terrain.”

“About 8 yrs. ago, GSMNP, Big Creek Trail, day hike from Big Creek Campground (BC-CG) to Walnut Bottoms - One came over and scared the h___ out of me. I thought for sure that a plane about to crash. I jumped behind a boulder and never saw it. During my return to BC-CG two of them, one just behind the other, scared the h___ out of me again. With no place to go, I instinctively went spread-eagle on the ground. The rocks and gravel hurt and I was bruised and cut. The reaction had been instinctive, even though I had been out of the military for many years. Never saw the planes.

With some sort of advance notice posted, I could have enjoyed watching the planes.

Many lawsuits from farmers in the surrounding area were pending. They claimed that the planes were having a detrimental effect on their livestock and that production was down.”

“Day before yesterday a friend and I were watching the biggest draws there are in our parts, for any hint of deer moving in or out of cover and before I can think to say I see the wart-hogs they are on us. The one that was right on us tips his wing to us, letting us know he has seen us and we can see him wave to us as he pulls up to climb over the top.

Almost an hour behind them there are four more planes and they all tip their wings to us. It was something to stand there and see the two men flying them on either side of me wave as they passed by.

I felt small, but proud to be there and see them screaming by and yet say Hi to me!”

“I always thought it was cool seeing jets in the wilderness. Where else are you going to see them? In a flight museaum?

roseymonster- the package said, 'smile, you're on the internet'”

“Well, according to the Federal Aviation Regulations, which I don't know if "all" of them apply to the military aviators, aircraft cannot fly within 2,000AGL(above ground level) of any wilderness area, national monument, or national park. All of these areas are clearly marked on aviation maps(i.e. "Sectionals"). How do I know this? I teach people to fly for a living.

Three years ago while I was signing the summit book on top of Mt. Shasta, 4 F-15's flew by at eye level in a steep bank. They were close enough for me to see the color and markings on their helmets. I didn't get upset, though, since I was too damn tired at the time to care, plus it was my birthday!”

“The pilots who fly those EA6B electronic warfare / strike aircraft from Whidbey Island Naval Air Station risk their lives on every training mission. They do so with courage and dedication, even though they all know that over the years, 44 A6 and EA6 pilots have died on training missions. Most left spouses and kids behind.

An EA6B from Whidbey on a training mission crashed outside of Forks, WA this week. Three pilots on board, all ejected safely, one suffered a broken leg. They were very lucky.

Military pilots train just like they will have to fight when our country (yes, that means your country too, Spock) calls on them. The dangerous and extreme flight training (that looks like joyriding to us earthbound civilians) increases their skills and abilities, which directly contributes to increased odds of getting home alive.

Every last EA6B pilot could earn much more money, for far less risk, by flying passengers in 727's for Southwest or United. Instead, they risk it all serving their country, with the added bonus of enduring six month long separations from their families while they ride aircraft carriers around the world.

If there is a restriction against the training flights you describe (and which I too have witnessed, many times, while hiking in the Glacier Peak Wilderness and elsewhere) it's simply wrong. I hope that regulation is never enforced, because those pilots deserve every opportunity to gain the best skills possible.

We owe those brave men and women a huge debt, more than we can ever repay. Even so, if you ever are fortunate enough to meet one of them, and if you have the courage to ask him or her what the best reward could possibly be, most would say that a simple 'thank you' from a fellow American is the most valuable payment they could ever receive.

When they pass over, wait for the silence to return, then whisper a prayer for their safe return home.”

“Research has indicated no measurable effect on wildlife.

I don't mind the noise at all. It's the sound of freedom.”

“Yep, that Grumman EA-6B Prowler is one bad ass combat aircraft. One that doesn't get alot of press, but one that is critical in combat operations. As someone who flies in formation and aerobatics alot, I can attest to the danger factor involved in low altitude operations. I know many who have been killed.

Just to let you know, most military aviators eventually go to work for civilian airline companies for the increase in pay. Flying combat aircraft is glamorized in movies, and such, but is extremely physically and mentally demanding. One of the many reasons the armed services are so selective in who becomes a pilot. One of my coworkers flys F15 Eagles and the other day told me that out of the 1,000+ hours he has in the aircraft, less than five have been fun. That was because he got to fly straight-and-level after completing missions during combat. Yes, I know that may sound unbelievable that it isn't all "Top Gun", but, nonetheless, true.

Southwest Airlines doesn't and never has used B727's in their operations and United Airlines has announced plans to decommission it's B727 fleet asap.

"Keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down"”

“Your tax dollars at work.

A free-friggin-air-show.

There are times when they might annoy me, but for what those guys can do, I'm damn happy to hear and see them.

The sierras have particular areas (one of which is directly over Mt. Whitney) where military aircraft are especially busy day and night.

Death Valley Nat.l Park is host to numerous aircraft exercises because of the proximity to military bases in Nevada and California.

Some of the best times I've had have been out in DV, sitting in the hot springs watching the Stealth Fighter, or the B-1 Bomber making low passes directly overhead.

They are truly AWESOME!”

“I love to see military jets flying anywhere. They're fun to watch.”

“When I moved to Marquette in the U.P. back in '78, Sawyer AFB was still in full bloom. One of the last squadrons of F-106 interceptors was stationed there -- delta-winged rocket sleds that were all about flat out speed. Watching them bank over the harbor after training runs up to the Arctic and back was quite a sight.

But for an earth shaking surprise, it was the B-52s from SAC's 410th Bombardment Wing that would sneak up on you at tree top level when you'd be out trout fishing in the U.P. wilds. Not as fast as the fighters, but they darken the earth. It was like being in a scene from Dr. Strangelove, except none of the guys at the base were remotely like Slim Pickens.”

“I have seen them a few times at Savage Gulf-in Tennessee-
I also watched a missile launch from the side of the "Organ Range" on the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico--”

“Grew up on Whidbey Island, the old A6 Intruders would make bomb runs on us a we were plowing in the fields, close enough to see the pilots laughing at us as they blew by.”