Tired of Dubya

“....insolvent retirement programs???

Heard of Enron?

Businesses "earn" their money from consumers.
Businesses tend to position consumers over a barrel if allowed.

One of the functions of government is to limit use of "the barrel".”

“Is that all, Tom? No other weak points? Cooooool.

They're all out to get you Tom. In your case I'd recommend a tinfoil hat. For the rest of us, caveat emptor works fine.”

“Dick Cheney today stuck his head out of his bunker and saw his shadow. Does this mean six more weeks of bombing?”

“LOL at kleetn!

I thought that was supposed to happen a little closer to spring!”

““One of the functions of government is to limit use of "the barrel".”

This is what we call restricted capitalism or bullsh!t for short. As long as there is not found to be a monopoly, have at it. If you got something people want/need and you can convince people you have a better product that the next guy, by all means, rake in that cash. This is what makes us all equal on the basest of levels. We all have a shot at greatness. It’s when someone doesn’t put it together and work as hard as the cash rakers and they start cryin’ that things aren’t fair and come to the feds with their hands out that things fall apart. This is also called bullsh!t or welfare state for long.


Just MHO.”

“Are you for total free market capitalism, Nigal? I have a couple of friends who are. I'm on the fence about that one. I do agree with Tom that government can play a role in protecting the consumer. How much protection, is the interesting issue for me.

I'm not convinced of the merits of a totally free market. Does anyone want to discuss this?”

“You don't need a monopoly to have the ordinary person over a barrel. Add oligopoly and collusion to your vocabulary.”

“mmmmmmm, Pringles over a barrel!”

“Oligopoly is a fact of life and specifically means that an entity does not control a market. It is not illegal and not the same as a monopoly.

Although it is also a fact of life, collusion is illegal. There really is no way to stop it if the payoff exceeeds the penalties. One free market response to collusion would be for the other members of that market to refuse to do business with the offenders. One would be for journalists to bring the situation to light, and for people to refuse to do business with the offenders. Most government penalties do nothing for investors who have lost money. The average citizen victim is lucky if those issues ever get resolved in the courts.

How do you solve that, Violin?”

“Making something illegal without having a governmental agency to enforce the law is pretty useless.

Our antitrust laws do extend to restrictions on oligopolies: specifically in the media business and the financial markets. These laws have been greatly relaxed or not enforced in the recent past at great risk to our society. A healthy, independant media is one of the cornerstones of democracy. Having a few large conglomerates control our access to information is an invitation to disaster - thank God for the internet. I hope I'm wrong but I think letting banking/securities and insurance trusts rebuild is a very bad idea. We still haven't paid off the S&L bailout.”

“As I read history, Theodore Roosevelt, a Republican president, worked hard to help break up monopolies and warned against unrestrained "free market". The "free market" sounds like such a simple answer to all of our problems, but we have already seen the fruits of unrestricted "free market" tactics. In an unregulated capitalistic system, one company eventually wins out, (example, Standard Oil), and supresses the competition. Hey, if we want to have one mega-corporation dispense goods to us, we will just have to take what they are handing out. As unpopular as it might sound, government is actually an acheivment of the evolution of mankind.
As a small business owner, I am a proponent of capitalism that is regulated by the government that I help elect.
Nigal, you might want to also read about Dwight Eisenhower and his warnings about the military-industrial complex.”

“Yes, these are good thoughts. But how do you actually protect the consumer? As unpopular as this may sound, monopolies can be very efficient systems. Then again, the gov'mint is a monopoly, I may want to rethink that. It's not the elected officials that worry me so much as the entrenched bureaucrats who are either appointed by our wonderful public servants, or buy their way into the system.

What interests me, is protecting the individual. When gov'mint breaks up a monopoly, or catches a company dumping waste, they levy all sorts of fines. This is great if you're the gov'mint. But how does the individual get reimbursed for his losses? Should the individual be reimbursed? Do our courts react effectively to help the guy, who doesn't have a lot of money, to afford a good (this may be an oxymoron) lawyer? I see the gov'mint as a wonderful dispenser of punishment, but not much of a force for individual justice.”

“The only recourse individuals have is through the much maligned tort system.


BTW...

"5. If we don't cut taxes, Congress will spend the money. If one thing is certain in Washington, it is that Congress will spend every dollar it can get its hands on."

False. Not 'every dollar'. We WERE running a surplus, but no longer. The National Debt is once again on the rise. It's not only the war effort and stimulus package (with fat for both sides)...

Citizens Against Government Waste

We need to bring back Bill Proxmire's "Golden Fleece Award".”

“Make that the MILITARY/INDUSTRIAL/CONGRESSIONAL COMPLEX.

They're all strokin' each other.”

“How's about that revolving door between the Pentagon, House/Senate Staff and industry? I think they have to wait three years, now.

It doesn't take much imagination to see it coming when someone's mentor comes back to
'do business'...

And it's too bad that the base closing commission became politicized. Talk about PORK!”

“The best looking women were in the House and Senate office buildings when I was a messenger back in '80.”

“They SAID we were running a surplus, Tilt. But with Social Security in so much trouble, that would have been only one of the ways they would have found to spend it. Come on, surplus government money? That is a complete laugher.

Already a Clinton protege back in '80, huh Tom? As Kissenger said, "Power is the ultimate aphrodesiac."”

“Any moneys not spent automatically reduce the national debt and thereby help Social Security remain solvent (though it is projected to remain solvent 'til when? Even at today's rates?). All we have to do is 'live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse,'... it's now our Patriotic Duty, LOL!

Uh... who are THEY?

*GRIN*”

“Arclite, I could argue the merits of the tax giveaway, but that's not my point. Let's stipulate that you and I disagree on it--and given your use of the term 'collectivist', I'm guessing we proceed from some very different assumptions. That disagreement is the point. It's a proposal that was dreamed up by the most extreme elements in the Republican Party, and is anathema to a large minority, if not a majority, of Americans. I don't see how anyone could argue that ramming that through is not divisive.”

“They is congress, Tilt. Both houses. Sorry, I should have been more specific for you PC guys. Automatically goes to reduce the National Debt? Are you sure about that one, Tilt?

And to be even handed, kleetn, what about the Dems pushing through farm subsidies? The Dems went for farm subsidies while the Reps tried to go for food stamp increases (What's up widat?) The vast amount of farm subsidy money actually goes to ADM not the small farmer, "working man." Guess who ADM gives the big money to? And speaking of tort reform, guess who the ABA supports?

Choose your sides and pick your patron. Money talks.”

“Had to bugger off......

....when I was a motorcycle messenger in '80 in The Evil Empire(Inside The Beltway) I saw some fine women in those downtown offices.

The finest of the fine were in the Capitol Hill offices.

arclite-
I suppose you could say that being a young man with all the correct parts would make me a Clinton protege'.
Wuzup witchyu?
Didn't get any?
Back in those days beer was usually the ultimate aphrodisiac.........or beer and a powerful twin throbbin' betwixt my legs.
I'll bet lipstickhiker could enlighten ya on subject of powerful twins.”

“Yep. Positive.

I'm just saying that the debt was going down for the first time in G-d knows how long, but it didn't last. Now, when we Really need to conserve, both of the 'established' parties are still going for the pork. It's in their nature.

The so-called Stimulus Bill is loaded with pork on both sides.”

“I'm from NJ, Tom, I like teasing folk, and I like it when someone gets me good. To be brutally honest with you, I like your warped sense of humor and viewpoint. I ignore people who I don't enjoy. "Oh goody", Tom says.”

“Hail and Farewell!

NJ, huh?
I like the way people from NJ/NY have attitude.
And I like being abused........it makes me wanted!”

“"All presidential administrations have their primary corporate sponsor. Clinton? Tyson Foods. Bush? Enron, baby. Since 1999, Enron and its executives have given more than $2 million to the Bush campaign. Enron had unusual access to Bush's discussions about energy policy and also appointments to important posts. (Kleetn 12/19)

This just in.........
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The U.S. Department of Justice indicted Tyson Foods Inc. and six of its employees on a charge of conspiracy to smuggle illegal immigrants into the United States to work at its poultry plants.

So by your Bush/Enron analogy, it would appear that Clinton is accessory to illegal alien smuggling.”

“Cool Deal! Lock 'em ALL up!”

“"Around here we prefer to call him the "chicken LOVER"."

Officer Barbrady”