Salary History

“Has anyone had to give their "salary history" when sending a resume? How much detail should be provided? Just your current salary, or through how many years/jobs? Can this information be provided on a cover letter? I don't want to create any faux pas!”

“Smiley,

Don't include that stuff in your resume or cover letter. Only provide the info. if they ask during an interview. I don't think they are legally allowed to ask you to produce that information. I usually try to find what the salary range for the job is, before discussing salary history.

For example:

Interviewer: "What is your salary history for the last three years?"

You: "My salary has increased over the past three years, and I am currently looking for a carreer that will increase my earnings. What is the salary range for this position?"

Interviewer" "Man, you are good, Buddha Bear must have coached you. The salary range is between 60k and 80k, based on experience."

You: I have over 4 years experience that relates to teh position. This combined with my educational background would qualify me for the higher end of that range."

Interviewer: "We like your experience, and we are looking for a young, energetic presence to our team. we are willing to offer 70K for the job."

You: "I feel that I will be a strong asset to the team, and I know working for your firm would enhance my background. Your firm is where I'd like to finish my career, and I feel that 72K would be an offer that I could accept right now.

Interviewer: "You are hired."


I hope this helps.”

“don't put it on your resume.

you need to put it on whatever form/app that they give you. they will usually verify this info. it's one of the few things that they are allowed to check.”

“Smiley Girl, in most cases you put the salary history on the application form, like Rad said. In my experience in management, if they ask for the salary history with the resume, it usually means they don't pay that well and don't want to waste time calling in people for interviews that they cannot afford to pay.”

“If sending out resume or answering an add that asks for salary history, tell them you would be happy to discuss this during your interview.”

“LOL, BB! I sure could retire early for 72K....if only that dream would come true!

The newspaper ad that I'm answering (as well as what's on their web site) specifically asked for "resume and salary history" to be submitted. I don't want to step off on a bad foot. If they asked for it up front, should I provide it? Would it be appropriate in this case to say "I'd be happy to discuss salary face-to-face"? Or do you think they'd just throw out my resume simply because I didn't provide that info?”

“I think Splash is probably right, that by asking for this info up front, they are indicating that they probably don't pay well.

It is the first law (well, one of the the top five, anyway) of negotiation: "The first one to mention a number, loses."”

“Splash, I thought that too, but they require a B.S. degree and 3-5 years relevant experience, I figure they have to come close to what I make now to want that kind of experience.

Think I'll stick with the "I'll be happy to discuss this with you in an interivew" line. Thanks all!”

“i agree with splash on the type of job that would ask for an up-front salary history. maybe you could use that in your job application selection.”

“Smiley,

In any negotiation, and that's what this is, you try to get information from the other side. If you send your salary information, and you were hypothetically making 40K, they can decrease the money budgeted for the position to hire you. The position may pay between 50K-60K, but if they know you make 40K, they'll probably offer 43K, knowing you'd jump at a 3k increase. If it were me, and they got upset if you wanted to discuss salary during the interview instead of posting it on your resume, they'd be getting off on the wrong foot with me. Baume is right.”

“buddha is right. no, wait, i agree with baume... or was it splash? fritz can't be wrong!”

“Smiley - get an executive recruiter, you interview, for good jobs, and they negotiate the rest. We'll talk more this weekend! Good luck.”

“lol @ rad

Actually that was kinda funny, there were four nearly-simultneous posts, all on-topic, all in agreement. When did that ever happen on TT????”

“Everyone in agreement, all on the first thread I've ever started! Let's hope the rest of the week is that easy!”

“Never tell them what you made elsewhere it's not their business, only tell them what you want now and try to get them to give a number first.”

“I was once told...by someone who does the interviewing/hiring for a company... that if they know how much you make (which you MIGHT tell them face-to-face, but not on the resume) and they are serious about hiring you, they should offer at least a 20% increase. (If the position allows for it!)

Last time I interviewed for a job, the guy asked me how much I made. I told him, but then I also told job if I were to rec'v a "significant" increase. (Let them figure it out) He didn't offer a "significant" increase and I didn't take the job.

P.S. I consider a "significant" increase to be about 20%. He offered about 8%. Not worth my time.”

“Just tell them you managed 401k's for Enron. They'll figure it out.”

“I don't do the past wage disclosure thing, they offer and I either accept or reject it. I also don't do the Human Resources thing until I have already basically got the job from someone whom I'm likely to be working for. Then I can tell the HR person where they can stuff their "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" ritual...but of course, in bed with you, baby!”

“This is amazing! Am I on Trail Talk? :o)”

“Oh, and by the way, don't forget the urine test, Smiley!

yes, you're still on Trail talk.”

“Smiley, never give a direct answer to salary expectations. You risk two things: (1) you open with an offer that allows the interviwing company to gain the best bargaining position and (2) you ask for less than the minimum.

When asked how much you expect to be paid,,,answer with the statement that you expect the maximum compensation that the budget will allow for someone with your education and experience. If the company is seriously considering you, they will "open" allowing you to gain the advantage in the bargaining game. Further, if they are serious, they will not open outside the range of pay. Hiring you at a figure lower than the minimum will be discovered by you sooner or later once you are hired. Strong companies rely more on rentention than in recruiting. You might be pleasantly surprised at the opening offer. If it is too low, then you have to wonder if you want to work for the company anyway. Good Luck! I strongly urge that you consider Buddah's approach and at least consider an executive recruiter or "headhunter". Most of the time the hiring company will pay the fee, and in the event that it cost you directly, you can expect (generally) that the investment will pay off in less than 6 months.”

“I got the job I'm at now with an executive recruiter. Sure was easy. Of course, I interviewed here a year before I actually took the job, turned them down once. The recuiter who got me here only recruits civil engineers, and I want out of the engineering world. How do I find another recruiter? Since the recruiter gets a percentage of your salary, wouldn't an employer give a candiate through a recruiter a lesser salary so as to not pay the recruiter as much? Wouldn't I be better off getting the job on my own? I don't specifically know what kind of job I want, just that I want to get out of the civil consulting world. Don't you know what kind of job you're looking for to work with a recruiter?”

“I'm in a far worse delima. The company I'm currently working for is showing signs of going belly up. So I've been out job searching. I've been asked by several different companies what my salary history is. What I've found out is that I'm at the high end of the salary scale for my position and experience. (classic example of paying your employees extra to put up with the day to day BS) What I'm finding is that no company wants to start a new employee out at the top of the pay scale no matter how good their resume is (and mine is VERY good).

So what do I do?
I have had several offers but they are lower than what I'm getting paid now, but in 3-6 months I might not be getting paid anything! I even had a company tell me that even after the 90 day review that a favorable raise probably won't get me up to what I'm making now.”

“Quick and Easy recruiter...go to Monster.com and post a resume. Within the first couple of weeks a lot of recruiters will get in touch with you, after that it dies off because they assume you are not really interested. I'm in the science field and have worked with the same company since college, but I still keep up with my monster stuff to see salary levels and what is out there (any ski areas looking for chemists?). Monster has a lot of interview advice and they may say something about salary expectations as well.”

“You must be a negotiator Chili.

Smiley - SwissMiss's monster advice is very good. Why don't you try some of the large consulting firms (Price Waterhouse Cooper, or Ernst & Young. I know someone in HR at Ernst and young and could ask her for you. The job pays well, you get to travel and it looks gtreat on a resume.”

“Buddah, negotiation is what I do for a living.....sure beats the h*ll out of practicing criminal defense. Only today is a very stressful day and makes me wish I was the stockboy at the local supermarket....LOL. Preparing for a negotiation session tomorrow in Washington, D.C. and found out first thing this morning that my Marketing Director is in the hospital and I will have to do his job as well as mine. (Close the deal and structure the agreement). I really hated missing the trip this weekend, but this morning, it became apparent that I made the right decision by staying home and studying the RFP and Response in detail.”

“So if you are a professional negotiator does that mean your wife doesn't win all the arguments?

If so, I could use some pointers.”

“salary requirements is always left out of my resume.. that's not the place for it..

My take on it is this.. I know what I can do, and my resume and track record shows I am successful at it. If I am asked a direct question regarding, "what would it take to get you, TownDawg?" -- My answer is always something on the order of, "I am sure you will make me a reasonable offer based on what I can bring to the table."

As for executive recruiters? I love them. They work really hard, and don't cost a cent. Of course, you do have to put up with a LOT of phone calls and emails once they know you are looking.”

“LOL,,,HPM,,,no wife to negotiate with. Now in regard to the ex-wife, I found that it was cheaper to pay her to go away. Sort of like figuring a one-time expense (other than child support,,,which is really ongoing for a life time anyway) versus the "annual" upkeep. Divorced three years ago and it looks like I am about back into the black on that deal.”

“all agreeing, ah, no,
must disagree. Take lowest offer, yea. Low pay good, more for me, ahh
[explosion]”

“LOL Chili.
I'm not ready for a buy out. I like her fine as is.”

“Chili, no wife to negotiate with? No problem...how about your tent for my wife?

LOL”

“Hmmm,,,couple hundred bucks for the tent,,,,,,and the amount the ex cost......well,,sorry Fritz, no deal. LOL.”

“Holy MBA Batman....


Here is how it goes with me.

Me: PLEASE HIRE ME!

Them: Why?

Me: Cause I dont smell and am endearing in a stray mutt kinda way.

Them: What do you earn now?

Me: Around a nickel.

Them: We will give you a nickel point five.

Me: HOT DAMN!”

“whatever you do don't let them give you the old song and dance about "we'll start you down here at this salary level and see how it works out....then we'll bring you up to the higher level"


tell them "i guarantee you that i am worth the higher salary level....my education, experience, and qualifications indicate that i am worth the higher starting salary....start me out at the higher salary and if i am not worth it, you can cut my pay...."

this gives you much more leverage (negotiation wise)....also, the chances of them actually cutting your pay after you have worked there for a while is almost nil....”

“Smiley - Why do you want to get out of Civil Engineering? Some of my best friends are Civil Engineers. There are lots of paths to follow--city government, utilities, teaching, research, environmental stuff, consulting, construction, etc. I worked as an engineer/supervisor full-time for 9 years after college (and thoroughly enjoyed it). After our plant was "downsized", I went into teaching and consulting (which I enjoy even more).

Regarding the salary, I agree that they will just use it to either give you a low-ball offer, or screen you out of the stack of resumes. If you can get the interview without the salary history, then do it. When I worked for GM and we were hiring engineers, we used to do both those things.

Head-hunters don't charge you. Employment agencies do charge you. The company pays headhunters (executive searchers) a commission independent of your pay. When there is an abundance of applicants, however, companies may not want to pay commissions or work with head hunters. Some head hunters will work with you so you will be in their files and be their contact (and/or bird dog).

Good luck! Keep us posted! Email me any time if I can help you.
prrosenkrant@csupomona.edu”

“Phil, I work for a consulting firm now. We do all municipal work, from capital improvement planning all the way through to construction. I'm tired of this firm owning my life. I'm sick of the attitude that if you're not in the office 50-55 hours a week, every week, all year long, you're not "committed". When there's work on my desk, I get it done. If there isn't anything to do, I want to be doing other things in life, not sitting here making up work. I've put in the 60+ hour weeks when its been necessary. I've thought about getting a government job, so I can abuse consultants instead of being at the receiving end. But I've seen how the politics at the local governmental level can change the entire structure in just one election. I've dealt with the county and state governments, and I don't want to become one of those "useless" people that can't do a review in less than 6 months. Its ridiculous. I don't mean to offend anyone who works in "big" government, that's just my view from where I sit every day. I have come across a few people who are quite helpful, but overall I think its a joke. I've got plenty of stories to back it up.

I have a B.S. in Environmental Engineering. My first job out of college did not leave a good taste in my mouth for that industry either. The work was horrible, and the management was even worse. I saw too many unethical things happen. I made a lot of mistakes about the way I handled myself there which I will never repeat, so I'm thankful for that learning experience in that regard. From there, I ended up at a civil firm, as a temporary job while I was looking for another environmental job. I ended up liking the civil job very much, and stayed there three years. Some more managment problems there, and it ended up I was one of the oldest engineers there, and its darn hard to learn the business and treat your clients properly without any leadership or mentors. I moved to my current job about two years ago, and have enjoyed some of my client responsibilities, but I just have this nagging feeling that there is something else out there for me. Every time I'm followed my instinct, its always been great. If I don't listen to it, life is not so fun. I'm certainly not the world's most gifted engineer, and I just don't enjoy the day-to-day engineering tasks. I like the client service/support role though. That's what I want to pursue. I'm much more of a people person than a techincal person.

I've got a couple other activities going on in my life that I'm hoping will show me what hidden skills or talents I have. I know the right job will come along, just as I know my current job was the right thing for me at the time. I'm just ready to do something different.”

“Your salary in the new job should be based on your KSA's and the new job, not previous positions held.

Do add any actions that demonstrate your ability to work as a member of a team, communicate effectively with others in different fields, and show your ability to work and make decisions under pressure in rapidly changing situations. These may not necessarily be paid positions or volunteer work. A backpacking trip gone bad may qualify.

The world is full of tech whiz kids with the ink on their diploma still wet and no 'real world' experience. Add to your resume experiences that show you are better than them. Most employers don't want someone that can write code in their sleep and nothing else. They want someone that will contribute to the company in the long term -- someone more than a tech-head.

Also DO NOT LIE! I check references and verify every detail once I whittle the stack of resumes down to a few. I don't care if the applicant can walk on water, if one false statement appears on the resume I toss it.”

“Wow smiley girl I didn't know that you were a civil too. What type of civil work do you do? Why would you want to get out of a high stress, high hours, moderately paying job where you get blamed everytime something goes wrong?”

“Reptiles, its like I'm looking in the mirror! You completely understand! I'm a consultant for several municipalities in the Detroit area. I love being beaten to a pulp by City Council at a public meeting. And I love residents who obviously have more engineering experience than we do, because the degree obviously means nothing! I know, civil engineering isn't the most glamorous of all engineering disciplines. After all, sh!t does flow downhill!”

“Oh, Reptiles, I do water & sanitary systems, lots of plan review for our clients (boring!) and some small road work. My company has a larger Roads group that does the bigger transportation stuff, i try to stay away from them and the structures people.

What kind of civil work do you do?”

“hey smiley, I'm in the same boat as you. I'm an environmental engineer and share the sentiments you've expressed. I'm often doing research into other fields to see if there's a better fit for my interests and talents. I think that as backpackers, we feel it's even more ridiculous to put in so many extra hours to appear "committed" when we could be out on a hike somewhere! I only have 2 years experience in the field, but I also have a master's degree. It's scary to think I have that much education in a field where I am feeling far from satisfied. The other thing for me is this: will I EVER get adjusted to "cube life"? I stare out the window and daydream about hiking, mtn. biking, snowboarding, etc. I do get out in the field occasionally, but maybe only 10% of the time. The worst thing though is that I feel like I do have great skill in this field, but it goes to waste because of a lack of passion. Reviewing specifications about the thickness of a bolt and the drying time of a coat of epoxy simply puts me to sleep! I agree with your assessments of the ethics and management practices as well...”

“I currently work for a small consulting firm here in Las Vegas that does moslty residential developments. We have also done commercial centers, casinos, and a roadway project. I'm an E.I. with over 3 years experience so I wear many hats and have many responsibilities. I do everything from research and feasibility, hydrology studies, water network studies, drafting, and design.

I don't envy your position, our roadway project left a bad taste in my mouth, too many people got involved each wanting something different.

I on the other hand get to deal with architects with their heads up their a$$es, contractors who don't speak english, and developers who are trying to suck every last penny out of the piece of land possible.”

“Goofy Foot, you got a window? I got more experience than you, and I got nothing! Just a big room with 18 cubes...it sucks!

Reptiles, I'm one of those horrible review engineers who picks your site plans to pieces!”

“smiley girl, if you are more interested in using your people skills than technical skills you might look into project management.

It can be frustrating because the project manager is a blame magnet, and you have to deal with lots of politics. Overall, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Electrical engineer by education, project manager by profession.”

“Another way to look at that question is they are looking to see if you recieved raises over the time there. This does reflect on your job performance.
I do agree with other statements. But I do interviews and hire people and this is a factor in the items I look at.”

“Smiley - Thanks for the explanation. Maybe you just need a sabbatical!!! (every seven years --it's Biblical).”

“My first job after I graduated from college taught me lesson. Lie. Lie. Lie. They can't look it up anyway.”

“they can.

they do.”

“I am so thankful that I have only had to "hunt" for a job once in my life. It wasn't fun, but it gave me a good appreciation for what people go through that I never forgot.

The one thing that surprised me 20 years ago (Mr. conservative, free-enterprise) was that the people at the state unemployment office were friendly and helpful compared to the human resource people at the companies I contacted. They were largely cold and not very helpful. The headhunters were very helpful, since they could smell a nice commission.”