Needin' a stove

“Shopping around for a new stove. Our Peak Apex II blew out after only two years. The good news is REI gave us our money back. Love that store. I was leaning towards the MSR Superfly, but plan on doing some winter trips. I know, I know, look through the gear reviews. And I will. What I'm after here are the stoves to rule out categorically. Anybody have any to take right off the list? Or is your stove the be-all end-all? Thanks in advance.”

“What's wrong with the Superfly? The iso-butane mixtures are supposed to perform fine in the cold. Mountaineers use them all the time. If there's a problem, just take the cannister in the bag with ya at night when it's really chilly. If I were buying a new stove, I'd go with that or the pocket rocket.”

“I REALLY like my pocket rocket so far.”

“Tarabull borrowed a superfly for her last trip. Weather was in 30s or 40s, I think. She said it didn't work so well. That's why I'm thinking white gas for serious cold weather.”

“Don't know of any to warn you about. My Coleman Xtreme works great, but I only take it along in colder weather (or if I'm planning on baking a cake). Otherwise, I've been using an Esbit.”

“I've not had that trouble with my PR, but I put it in a pan of water to counteract that. The MSR Whisperlite has been recommended to me by several people for cold weather for that reason. I've never tried it, though.”

“Oh yeah, I remember reading that on another thread at some point. Plain old cold water? A little or a lot? Does that help the fuel vaporize or what?”

“I love my pocket rocket. My stoves pretty cool too. Seriousely, don't be afraid of the cannister stoves. They will run in the cold if ya just do a couple tricks. They get pretty good milage too. I stretched 3/4 of a cannister for a whole week (two hot meals a day).”

“About 1 or 2 inches. Just plain cold water although warm would probably work better. It keeps the cannister temp from dropping and lowering the output. As long as it's above freezing (which any liquid water is, by definition) it will work. It also helps to warm the cannister before using it (ie. under an armpit).”

“Bingo! I just didn't wanna sound redundant.”

“If it works, it works!”

“Hmmmmm, canister sounding more appealing...”

“I showed that trick to my buddy by picking an already fired and slowing stove into the water and he couldn't believe the differenc. It does work like a charm.”

“also heard of using one of the reusable pocket warmers rubber banded to the canister - the type of pocket warmer you recharge by putting in boiling water.”

“I had thought of that but I'm afraid to do it. That is a pressurized gas cannister, after all. I'm not looking for explosions for breakfast, lol!”

“I have two.. a peak one apex.. and a swiss thing that bpbaby sold me.. both awesome stoves.. but hey.. i like white gas. :)”

“not a problem - if you can carry a canister in the desert in summer you can rubber band a hand warmer to it in the winter - the rechargeable handwarmers don't get to be more than 120 deg. F at the most”

“What about the disposables? That's what I normally use.”

“Uh, Hogonice, where I winter camp (Adirondacks) you don't mess around with buckets of water because of the waste of fuel melting snow. The Superfly is rated to something like -10°F to -15°F, but it gets a lot colder here. Why buy a stove for weather that won't get too cold? Winter camping sh!t happens fast when it happens and it can kill you. Go with what everyone will tell you works in all temps. - the MSR stoves - I have had the Whisperlite since 1987 and it has never let me down. When you carry two fuel bottles you never even have to pour fuel. Fuel and water spills (on a sleeping bag, in a bivy sack, etc.) can kill you, or at best get you frost bitten and in winter we are not at our most dexterous. Take no chances and happy trails.”

“I would suggest white gas for winter also. My brother has tried a host of stoves; none match the whisperlight below zero (IMO).”

“That's too funny! Putting your stove in a pan of water in the middle of winter?!? Where do you get the water?

For winter travel, take something reliable, especially a stove. It's your life link to water and warm meals that keep your core temperature up. The MSR dragonfly would be my choice. Don't forget the old license plate to keep your stove on top of the snow!”

“disposables show a bit of more variation since they are based on an oxidation process - the specs look like they vary from 105 deg F to 160 deg F - this is different from the reusable hand warmers which have a phase change that is pegged at 130 deg F (sorry for the 120 number above - its what I get with a bad memory). It is my opinion that even the disposable hand warmers would be OK for warming the canister but I would probably pick a smaller unit - ie a "toe warmer". Also putting it under the canister may work well since it reduces the amount of oxygen reaching the handwarmer.”

“LOL Reptiles! You don't have to have water to start the thing! Start the thing up, melt some snow and then pour off a cup or two into the pan the stove's sittin in.”

“gremlin - my preferred stove is the zip - no worries about spilled stove fuel since it uses solid fuel - the only problem with the zip in winter is the same as all battery operated devices - you may need to warm the battery up in your arm pit for a while in order to get the fan running well.”

“I use the water from my water bottle which I keep in the sleeping bag with me over night to keep it from freezing. I have an MSR dragonfly and I wouldn't recommend it if you ever like to hold a conversation while you are cooking. People I have hiked with call it the Boeing. It's loud. I haven't used it since I got the pocket rocket. If I was going to do any alpine hiking I would get a Whisperlite.”

“Just curious, what happened to the Apex that it blew out in 2 years? Coleman stoves are usually pretty good, at least the ones I have.”

“I have a whisperlite and although its a pain to prime and pump and fiddle with when your fingers are freezing at -10 it does always work. What else works is a cheap crap coleman propane stove. If you're on a short hike and don't mind the weight the litttle propane stoves have provided me with instant blue flame at -10 and 6,000 feet, all for about $20.”

“I love my apex II- I'd fight you over my expedition- love my grits and coffee at the same time-
weight be damned.
I am sure I'm in the minority-but I despise MSR stoves.”

“I have the MSR Whisperlite and it has never let me down in the 3 years I've owned it.

How much cash are you willing to invest? If price isn't a big concern ...check out the Optimus Nova ($140.00) it's super simmer feature is supposed to be nice and it will burn Auto Gas , Kerosene or white gas/ coleman fuel.
Anybody own one of these ? I sure would like to see one in person.”

“You absolutely positively cannot go wrong with a Whisperlite. The best "basic" stove around, I've seen pictures of it in a zillion BP books, have helped a bunch of scouts use them wo problems, and consider mine to be prolly my most dependable piece of gear. No problems w the current one with about 130 nights of camping on it...winter, sleet, rain, etc. I think I cleaned it once....”

“Richb - The Apex II seemed like a great stove. It was a gift (from my darling girlfriend), and I loved it. Never had any problems until this past summer in the Whites. Had just gotten it lit, and suddenly, fuel came a'spewin out of the pump assembley where the brass hose fitting meets the plastic of the housing. I stared at it stupidly, while Tarabull and our other hiking partner screamed, "Turn it off! Turn it off!" Luckily, friend had MSR Whisperlite.

After we got home, we tried to repair it, but could not. No parts in the repair kit for it. Brass fitting didn't seem to come off pump housing. Said, "Screw it." and took it back.

Used the Whisperlite the rest of the trip and didn't like it. It's fussier to light than the Apex II was. Also, this particular stove had broken on my buddy before (cheap plastic plunger).”

“Hey Max, lucky you weren't burned. Sounds like the seal failed. My MSR Firefly has an o-ring seal in the same spot and it had to be changed a few times. I don't use the stove much anymore since I bought my Peak 1 Feather 400 in 1993. I had good luck with the Peak 1 and it never gave me trouble, but I use my Pepsi can stove for most trips.”

“I've used a few of the Peaks and Colemans and one thing I find is a must is that as soon as you get it home from the store, take a lighter and melt off the little red lever as well as any other plastic levers. It's gonna happen sooner or later so I might as well do it then. LOL!

They may spit but they last a lifetime. I keep hopin' my old white gas, double burner coleman will die so I can justify buying one of the propane jobbies with the grill on one side. 20 some years and it won't die!”

“I don't know Nigal, the red lever on mine is still OK. Maybe because I never put a large pot on it that might reflect a lot of heat downward.”

“Max, Yes it is a bad seal.
That happened to my Apex II also. You have to get a new fuel line from Coleman customer service to fix it. I think it was $25 bucks and just screws in no problem. It took 5 years for mine to go bad.

As far as MSR I have a '84 Whisperlite and a Dragonfly. The whisperlite only last year needed any maintenance work. The Dragonfly rocks but yes Skully is right it is super loud to the point of not being able to hear anything cause of the noise and annoys most folks. Be sure you never use it in an AT shelter at 6AM if you are sharing the shelter go outside.

I like white gas and have three stoves and a pepsi can stove so I can't justify getting a cannister stove.”

“It wasn't from reflective heat. It is from raw, spewing fuel.”

“humanpackmule - the Apex II that Max and I had was used on a small handful of trips. Instead of paying for a replacement part, we were happy to take it back. Can't really trust that product anymore!”

“Yeah I can't argue with that. I'd do the same if I only used it a few times and it puked.

Mine I had for years so the trust was already there.”

“Nigal-
I wouldn't wait for the dual burner to die--they will outlast the pyramids- I found a conversion valve that allows you to convert to propane--optimus? got it at wal-mart or k-mart.
works great.”

“JOSH MAN, I could be wrong but it sound to me like nigal is coveting the grill, not the propane.”

“hMmm.. you guys got me worried about my apex.. but I have NEVER had any trouble with it whatsoever.”

“Hogonice, what do you use above treeline? How can you handle the wind?
Max: Practice will get you just about perfect for priming the MSR. Everyone's right about the Dragonfly - I was in the Donaldson Range of the Dacks and another party had one. The next morning we thought we'd camped beside a rail road track (ever done that?) when they fired it up. Simmer or noise? I don't do that much winter simmering, humph. Happy trails.
BTW, Cabela's is selling an extendable lighter for 14,95, anyone have one? Oh yes, we use a BBQ light to light the MSR - anyone else do that?”

“Hogonice, what do you use above treeline? How can you handle the wind?
Max: Practice will get you just about perfect for priming the MSR. Everyone's right about the Dragonfly - I was in the Donaldson Range of the Dacks and another party had one. The next morning we thought we'd camped beside a rail road track (ever done that?) when they fired it up. Simmer or noise? I don't do that much winter simmering, humph. Happy trails.
BTW, Cabela's is selling an extendable lighter for 14,95, anyone have one? Oh yes, we use a BBQ lighter to light the MSR - anyone else do that?”

“Hogonice, what do you use above treeline? How can you handle the wind?
Max: Practice will get you just about perfect for priming the MSR. Everyone's right about the Dragonfly - I was in the Donaldson Range of the Dacks and another party had one. The next morning we thought we'd camped beside a rail road track (ever done that?) when they fired it up. Simmer or noise? I don't do that much winter simmering, humph. Happy trails.
BTW, Cabela's is selling an extendable lighter for 14,95, anyone have one? Oh yes, we use a BBQ lighter to light the MSR - anyone else do that?”

“I have a little butane torch that I used to light the dragonfly. It's pretty light weight and refillable. Don't need it for the pocket rocket, I can light that with a lighter.”

“Seems like I saw one of those side burners as a separate deal at a gas grill shop-The Holland Company was the brand.”

“gremlin - if I am in an area without an easy access wood supply I carry in a small amount of charcoal - after cooking I extinguish the charcoal for use later - if using full brickettes I only need four to get more heat than I need. I am however in the middle of evaluating an alky stove - the turbo v8 - to see if I can save some weight - I am not sure however how good the turbo v8 would be in winter conditions so I would probably stick with the zip until I get a better feel for the turbo V8 in winter conditions. The only problem with a zip in the wind is lighting the match in windy conditions - if it is too much of a problem I light the firestarter with a lighter - seriously windy conditions I probably would use my thermarest to block some of the wind while getting it going - once going the wind probably would help the fire burn better - that is to say I would probably not need to use the fan on high or possibly at all.

Other items to note - since I am a hammock user I rarely camp in areas that do not have trees so it is a rare event where I need to carry any fuel other than matches and fire starters.”

“I still would highly recommend the MSR Whiperlite....however... the Peak 1 Apex II is on sale at REI Outlet for $31.93, for those who like it sounds like a pretty good deal.”

“i like my whisperlite... and my SVEA 123....and my pocket rocket.....and my other SVEA 123......and my other canister stove (no name i picked up for $12 from a guy). had a dragonfly but returned it (it took up too much space).”

“anyone looking for a SVEA 123?”