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“Anyone know of any children's stories or fables that teach about why stealing is wrong?”
1:42:26 PM 12/19/01
“stealing is wrong?”
2:20:47 PM 12/19/01
“remember not to leave lyra in the campsite 'unattended'... *G*”
2:26:39 PM 12/19/01
“The Young Thief and His Mother
A young Man had been caught in a daring act of theft and had been condemned to be executed for it. He expressed his desire to see his Mother, and to speak with her before he was led to execution, and of course this was granted. When his Mother came to him he said: "I want to whisper to you," and when she brought her ear near him, he nearly bit it off. All the bystanders were horrified, and asked him what he could mean by such brutal and inhuman conduct. "It is to punish her," he said. "When I was young I began with stealing little things, and brought them home to Mother. Instead of rebuking and punishing me, she laughed and said: "It will not be noticed." It is because of her that I am here to-day." "He is right, woman," said the Priest; "the Lord hath said: "Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old he will not depart therefrom."”
2:33:26 PM 12/19/01
“I would say "Jack and the Beanstalk" but I think that's the one lyra heard once too often.”
2:37:15 PM 12/19/01
“AAAAAHAHAHAHA, look who's a comedian... ;-) LMAO!”
2:47:15 PM 12/19/01
“PBS has a cartoon series based on the Book of Virtues, I'm pretty sure they're available on video. Check Amazon.com? There is one episode on Honesty (and one on honor, integrity, perserverance, etc.)
I believe Bacpac owns the whole series.”
2:53:14 PM 12/19/01
“yeah...he stole them!”
3:00:27 PM 12/19/01
“Hey, some people think it is only wrong ifin you get caught. Like it or not the morality that says stealing is wrong is based in religion of one persuasion or another. To the good animals of this world, stealing from others is a thing to celebrate. Only humans think otherwise. At least some humans that is. Check out the writings of what ever religion you identify with best.”
3:02:29 PM 12/19/01
“I must take issue from the mtn gal's statement :
" Like it or not the morality that says stealing is wrong is based in religion of one persuasion or another."
Although she was an atheist from long before I was born, my mother was one of the most moral people I have ever known and instilled in her children a sense of right and wrong just because things are right and wrong. You don't need a "god" figure to tell you that it is wrong to steal from or hurt other people. I kinda think that people who are taught that things are wrong because god says so are likely to think that once they stop following that particular god they can stop following all those silly little rules, too.
It's true that the good animals of the world think stealing is cool but the concept of doing things for "the common good" is something that separates us from the animals. Also, animals are not too good on the concept of concequences so while we can see that if I steal from Bob, he might feel free to steal from me but animals won't make that leap.”
3:30:17 PM 12/19/01
“Pepperdog, that was one of the more precise arguments I have seen to defend one's point of view on TT. Good job and I agree.”
3:55:00 PM 12/19/01
“The best I've heard is a book my son read called "Holes." Couldn't say the author. Great book for a 10 yr old.”
7:02:51 AM 12/20/01
“"The Book of Virtues" is great. There's also the campanion book: "The Moral Compass" both are written by William J Bennett. They're filled with short stories that apply.”
7:24:50 AM 12/20/01
“Yes, The Book of Virtues is a great suggestion. I have it at home.
Sass, folks probably know this but just to clarify....The Book of Virtues wasn't written by Bennett, he was the editor. He chose what he felt were the best literary works (poems, short stories) to illustrate a whole list of virtues that he feels are important.
I'll look for "Holes" also, thanks.”
8:33:27 AM 12/20/01
“Robin Hood comes to mind!!! Steal from the rich and give to the poor.”
8:44:51 AM 12/20/01
“Mtn gal honey! Whar ya been?
(.)(.) ) . ( ( Y )
”
8:49:55 AM 12/20/01
“Pepper – I did not say that religious people are the only ones with morals. I said that the morality is based on a religious belief. Or at least that is what I meant to convey. I did not mean this at the individual level but at the societal level. Your Mother was taught morals by someone that learned them from someone else. If you trace it back you will find a religious believe (not necessarily a church). Your statement about “common good” and “the concept of consequences” are in the line of it is bad to get caught not it is bad to steal. A person’s true morals are only demonstrated when no one will know what they are or have done. There are animals that, within their own group, have “morals” about stealing if you call not stealing for the “common good” or because of “consequences” a moral. The question would be, why is stealing bad? If your only answer is because of the “common good” or “the concept of consequences” then to me that is not morals, that is fear of being caught.
Anyway, you can have the last word on this. I decided I would not argue with even the most dimwitted posts (yours was not one of these, yours is a good point) when I came back to reading this forum.
Kleent – Been in the mountains, moved to the big city (by Idaho standards) and trying to develop more compassion for those of our species without critical thinking skills. As for your illustration, I spend more time dressed that way all the time. For me nudity is not immoral. We even visited a nude beach this year. Discursion is our practice, I know others have a different believe and I do not wish to push mine onto them.
(.)(.) ) . ( ( Y )
”
9:14:28 AM 12/20/01
“mtn gal, I 'spose I am a likely beneficiary of your newfound compassion... ;-)
Welcome back.”
9:44:03 AM 12/20/01
“BTW, mtngal, I am really glad to see you posting. You have no idea how much crap I took over whether or not I was you. A girl takes one nude dip in a hotspring (me) on her first bp and is unable to ever live it down. Geez! They insisted I was you forever.”
9:53:51 AM 12/20/01
“Live it down?
Why would you need to do that?”
9:57:27 AM 12/20/01
“don't live it down, pull it down!”
10:07:52 AM 12/20/01
“You boys are very humorous this morning.”
10:19:39 AM 12/20/01
“newgirl, please, don't encourage them...”
10:21:08 AM 12/20/01
“I meant that w/ a whole lot of sarcasm, Fritz.”
10:24:43 AM 12/20/01
“Thanks for clarifying that Fritz. I knew he editted them just didn't connect to the fingers as I typed.”
10:32:27 AM 12/20/01
“It's ok, mtn gal - I said what I needed to say and I won't give you another dimwitted post requiring you to sink to the depths to respond to. I guess that gives you the last word.
I know you didn't mean to call me dimwitted but it is hard to read that paragraph and not get that impression.”
10:47:44 AM 12/20/01
“pepperDog-
You are cool and thoughtful.
You were lucky to grow up with a mom like that.
It is entirely possible to raise children without threats of "damnation" and use of fear of mythical supernatural beings.”
11:00:54 AM 12/20/01
“Don't mind her Pepperdog. All that nakidness makes her cranky sometimes.”
11:05:11 AM 12/20/01
“"Mohammed the pickpocket can't dress himself anymore"”
11:06:33 AM 12/20/01
“le Subtil, that's what we need in our elementary schools, some SERIOUS corporal punishment!”
11:23:02 AM 12/20/01
“pepperDog, I didn't think your post was dimwitted (and I rather suspect that mtn gal didn't think so either.)
Tom, I appreciate your feedback to PD, but I find your characterization of religious upbringing to be arrogant, ignorant, and offensive.
And I mean that in the best possible sense.
;-)”
11:32:49 AM 12/20/01
“Well, the notion that religious upbringing is the only way to learn morals can be taken to be arrogant, ignorant, and offensive.
I'm not arrogant, just speaking up for the religiously challenged.
I'm not ignorant, I had the full monty of religious education.....education=lack of ignorance.
Offensive-
Well you're on your own, pal!
~@%^>
My characterization is a literal description.
Although children are inculcated in a sometimes gentle fashion, they are told in no uncertain terms that they will suffer eternally in unspeakable horror if they don't follow the dogma.”
11:47:50 AM 12/20/01
“Tom, I don't want to debate religion here, but in response:
Well, the notion that religious upbringing is the only way to learn morals can be taken to be arrogant, ignorant, and offensive.
I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested that. It is a straw man.
I'm not arrogant, just speaking up for the religiously challenged.
To me, the suggestion that the billions of people who believe in a supernatural being (or beings) are all believing in "myths," is arrogant. You don't believe in anything supernatural? That's fine, there are respectful ways of saying so, but simply labeling such beliefs as "myths" makes you sound arrogant.
I'm not ignorant, I had the full monty of religious education....
I'm sorry your religious education left you with such a bad taste. Nevertheless, I do not think your characterization paints an accurate picture of what is communicated in the vast majority of religious families.
Offensive - Well you're on your own, pal!
I was offended, and I said so. I bet I'm not the only one. But if I am, that doesn't change it.
Hope to meet you on one of these ECT's someday soon...
Peace!”
12:15:54 PM 12/20/01
“Pax Vobiscum!
To you too!
I appologize for being such an argumentative SOB.
I had privately sworn off razzin' the religious members of our congregetion here.
I was being flippant with the, "you're on you own pal"......it just seemed like a clever thing to say.
Sometimes it seems as though I'm surrounded and hopelessly outnumbered, what with the proliferation(spiritual revival) of the various Christian faiths going on now.
Et Cum Spiritu Tuo”
1:16:55 PM 12/20/01
“Oh, and uh, my religious education did not "leave me with a bad taste"..........just unconvinced!”
1:21:42 PM 12/20/01
“a bad taste? hmmm....”
1:31:41 PM 12/20/01
“OK, Tom, that's cool. Thanks.
Rad, you know the rules. Look but don't lick!”
1:47:14 PM 12/20/01
“radagast-
You useless slut!
Pax Vobiscum
on you too!!!”
1:49:27 PM 12/20/01
“Stealing is such a harsh word and tends to undermine a child's self-worth. With my kids, I like to refer to it as borrowing without asking and with no intention of returning the item. It is so much heathier.
Listed
below are some books recommended by William Kilpatrick,
Gregory Wolfe and Suzanne Wolfe in Books that Build
Character: A guide to teaching your child moral values
through stories (Simon & Schuster, 1994).
Young
Readers (ages 4 - 8)
Dogger, by Shirley Hughes. Mulbeffy,
1993.
The Book of Virtues.- A Treasury of Great
Moral Stories, edited, with commentary, by
William Bennett. Simon & Schuster, 1993.
The Lion and the Puppy, by Leo Tolstoy.
Henry Holt, 1988.
Mufaro's Beautiful Daughter: An African Tale,
by Stepoe. Lothrop, 1987.
Hello Amigos! by Tricia Brown. Henry
Holt, 1986.
Pre-Adolescent Readers
(ages 8 - 12)
Crow and Weasel, by Barry Lopez. Farrar,
Straus & Giroux, 1990.
The People Could Fly: American Black
Folktales, by Virginia Hamilton. Knopf,
1985.
The Door in the Wall, by Marguerite de
Angeli. Dell, 1990.
Jim Abbott: All-American Pitcher, by
Howard Reiser. Children's Press, 1993.
Mother Teresa: Sister to the Poor, by
Patricia Reilly Giff. Puffin, 1987.
Teens
(ages 12 and up)
Emily of New Moon, by L.M. Montgomery.
Bantam, 1983.
Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry, by Mildred
Taylor. Puffin, 1991.
The Diary of a Young Girl, by Anne
Frank. Pocket, 1990.
The Story of My Life, by Helen Keller.
Scholastic, 1967.
