restaurant smoking ban

“I'm working with an organization that is proposing a smoking ban in restaurants in my city. In places that serve more than fifty percent of their profit in food, there would be no smoking allowed. Reasons include, some restaurants don't have a choice whether or not they allow smoking - a city ordinance would allow them to go smoke free, kids often don't have the choice where they go and are often subjected to second-hand smoke in restaurants, non-smokers should not have to deal with the harmful effects of second-hand smoke in a restaurant. Anyway, I just started this job and am not really part of the ordinance, but still I feel I should be in support. However, I think it should be the restaurant owners decision. Any thoughts?”

“Let the owners decide.”

“I'll tell ya, CA has had this statewide for a while. It's great. Going to bars without having to have your eyes swell shut from all the smoke and your clothes reek at the end of the night is fantastic. Smokers have adapted and hang out outside to have their butts. If the owner of the establishment is the only one who is working the bar, then patrons can smoke. The law was mainly enacted under pressure from restaurant employees who didn't feel it was fair for them to be subjected to second hand smoke.”

“I'm w Rosey. I can hardly stand it when I have to leave California on biz. The smoke is disgusting.”

“Let the legislature decide......”

“wow. i agree with rosey.”

“I feel strongly both ways. ;-)

I hate the smoke.

But I advocate for limited government and free markets. So I think I have to say, it is and should be up to the owners.”

“i was under the impression that unless there was a ban in your area, that the owners had to allow it.

i would prefer it to be up to the owners, too, but if it has to be one or the other, then take it outside, buddy!”

“my bedroom has been known to fill with smoke.”

“poor running girl.”

“CA has had a ban for several years now and all the doom-and-gloom predictions never happened. If anything business increased. Smoking is still allowed in private clubs so a handful of bars and restaurants 'went private' to take advantage of the loophole.

This is one of those ideas where private rights bump up against the public good, so choose wisely.”

“Yes, I appreciate being able to choose what place I want to go to - sometimes it is nice to have a cig with an ice cold beer and relax, and sometimes my eyes are overly sensitive at times. I like to be able to choose, and I was disappointed in New York City at the no smoking craze. In fact, I saw one restaurant that had a cigarette with a circle around it and no slash advertizing a smoking atmosphere!”

“you can't smoke in hay barns anymore.

Fraekin' pathetic!”

“unbelievable!”

“I know what you mean Gojo, they aren't letting us smoke in or around grain silos in MT anymore either. What gives?”

“I don't personally have a problem with an eshablishment's owner deciding for himself, but imposing the ban rubs me the wrong way. I don't mind going into a resturant and not smoking. My own family's been sending me, out of their homes, for years. I'm used to it. He He

A total ban in resturants and bars was tried, here in B.C. Eventually, it was rammed through by the Workers Compensation Board, due to potential harm of second hand smoke, to employees.

It was pretty big news, here, as the bars were included at the last minute, creating quite an uproar, from the owners. Patronage started dropping off, and it all got quite ugly. One bar started supplying staff with gas masks to challenge the law. Also, Mom and Pop operations, which didn't technically have employees, were making things interesting. Heated outdoor seating areas were popping up all over.

The issue is currently on the back burner, right now, but I doubt that we've heard the end of it.”

“We have opportunities that cold climates don't, I don't like the smoke either so I like the law. In a lot of bars out here they have covered patios where you can smoke, otherwise smokers have to go outside. I love watching smokers feed the monkey outside when it's raining... can you say ADDICTION?”

“This is one of those ideas where private rights bump up against the public good, so choose wisely."
gordon
02:20:40 PM
12/20/01

Gordon, I think this is an issue where private rights bump up against the private rights of others. Less abstract and more to the point.

I agree it is an issue to consider carefully.”

“It's kind of bull#&%!$, really. Always political. I mean if they are going to enforce laws on friggin second hand smoke, then why don't they beef up laws that help reduce vehicles emmissions? No money in that, is there? Big money on slapping power plants and utilities that emit pollutants, but it ain't gonna work unless they do it across the board. Horsesh!t!
Personally, my arse doesn't tighten up when someone is smoking cause I know as soon as I walk outside, I am going to breath in car exhaust.”

“In CA it's not just restraunts and bars but all public (indoor) places, grocery stores, etc.”

“Guffaw! Call me smoky!!”

“Smoky, I don't have any hard data, but I suspect the toxicity of cigarette smoke in a poorly-ventilated area (indoors almost anyplace) is far worse than that of automobile exhaust outside.”

“You could be right. I might look it up...”

“In Maine, smoking is prohibited in public places and within 50 or 100 feet of entrances to public buildings. Smoking is allowed in bars. Prior to the laws banning smoking, restaurants could ban smoking on their own if they wanted.

A local diner became smoke free after a non-smoking employee died of lung cancer attributed to second hand smoke. This was way before the laws were enacted, and it continues to be one of the most popular places I know.”

“Check out morbidity/mortality weekly (published by the CDC) and do a comparison of national deaths due to second-hand smoke vs. outdoor air.”

“Starting New Year's Day, all bars and restaurants in Quebec with over 35 seats will have to be smoke-free. If any establishment wishes to allow smoking, they'll have to have an enclosed area with separate ventilation. Last year all public areas were smoke-free.”

“Yes - indoor second-hand smoke seems far more harmful than outdoor air, but...

-Studies of lung cancer and exposure to pollution are complicated by difficulties in excluding the confounding effects of tobacco smoke and occupational, dietary and other exposures to carcinogens and problems in obtaining precise measurements of exposure to ambient pollution on an individual (rather than population) level over time-
*Streeton JA. Air pollution health effects and air quality objectives in Victoria. Review undertaken at the request of the Environment Protection Authority”

“Funny, we have a similar discussion here at work.

The boss wants to eliminate smoking on the assembly floor (the only area where it is allowed) citing health reasons. Yet, they still paint our machines on the floor. That 2 part epoxy paint is a killer. It's sent me home sick more than once.”

“I HATE SMOKEING THAT IS ALL I AM GOING TO SAY!!!!!”

“Wow, le Subtil, you'd think smoking would be a fire hazard with that stuff around. I would think he could cite safety reasons easier than health reasons.”

“Maine has had a restaraunt smoking ban for some time now. I think it is great! There have been no wholesale collapses of the eateries. Many have done better.

When I go out of state, I am rudely reminded when I go to eat, that I'm not in Maine any more.

Restaraunts that claim to have smoking and no smoking areas have got to be kidding themselves, the smoke goes every where.

Before the clean air initiative(some call it a smoking ban) if it wasn't smoke free, I ate else where. There were plenty of places to eat then, but I do like the increased choices I now have.”

“BTW - second hand marijuana smoke is deadly also. It's not real healthy first hand either.”

“All smoke sucks!!!!!”

“Lets face it... Smokers now face the typical "Rights of the Minority" problems, that come with democracy

Should I be allowed to expose others to harmful effects of my cicarettes? No, probably not.
Am I forcing anyone to go to a place that they deem to be too smoky? ...No
Should a proprietor be allowed to control the environment of his establishment? ...Absolutely
Some night clubs play music at a potentially harmful volume. While we're at it, why don't we dictate what kind of music a club owner should be allowed to play.

Our Provincial government debates whether or not to allow smoking, while our Capital City continues to dump raw sewage into the Stait of Juan deFuca. I'm sure that you Washingtonians must love that sh't”

“The way I see it how can one side of our goverment say it's bad while the other side makes money off of it????What kind of crap is that?”

“No farting in public places. You know how debilitating those second hand effects can be.

Seriously, we have restaurants in town that allow no smoking. Others have smoking sections. The market works. I go only to the former. If I needed work, I would only apply for jobs at the ones that didn't allow it. How hard is that?”

“I own a restaurant and it is smoke free. Very few complaints, but I wouldn't have minded if the govt. took the blame for me. They are involved in everything else.”

“I dont like smoky restaurants either, and I smoke. I sit in the non-smoking section.

I think its up to the business owner to decide. If you dont like the smoke, dont go. If you dont want Greek food dont go to a Greek restaurant.

This is a somewhat similar subject that comes up. Unhealthy food. No second hand health affects BUT healthy eaters and non-smokers pay higher premiums in total health coverage because of those who dont. Then we get into auto-insurance....PLEASE NOTE I dont want to argue about this. Just bringing up a counterpoint which I may or may not support. Its a slippery-slope.

I must add however that it would be nice if building codes were changed to enforce better indoor air quality systems. Perhaps all new construction after a given date would have to install air handlers with better filtration and more air volume...but thats an unfunded mandate...Drat no easy answers.”

“a no smoking section of a restaurant is like a no peeing section of a pool.

'nuff said”

“I live in California where smoking is banned in all public places. I don't smoke and like smoke free buildings. Nevertheless, I am bothered by the inability of restaurant and bar owners to decide for themselves. If they want to set up separate ventilation facilities, they could actually have both with very little smoke crossing over. Surprisingly, the hoopla has died down out here. I doubt the bars will ever see legal smoking again (BTW. Some bars still allow smoking and the authorities just turn their heads).

I will admit--after living in a smoke free environment for many years now, just a little bit of second hand smoke is noticeable.”

“It is very expensive to have separate venting facilities. Before we went smoke free I had smokers complain about the noise that someone elses kid was making. You have to put up with my smoke, but I shouldn't have to put up with your noise. No offense to smokers, but I don't see much difference.”

“Tobacco is a drug. It is addicting. It is hazardous to your health. The second hand smoke is hazardous to others' health. Perhaps tobacco should be banned rather than imposing on people's rights.”

“I should clarify that when I say ban tobacco, I mean make it illegal rather than ban the act of smoking, which is a legal activity. Just a thought.”

“Couldn't that also apply to alchohol? How many people die each year because of soemone else's alcohol consumption. I bet if we forbid people from drinking in restaurants and other places outside the home there would be less alcohol related fatalites. Ban booze!....ohmygod whatamisaying.........”

“Smoking is a recreation, not a right. If they can ban drinking alcohol in public places, they can ban smoking cigarettes in public places. What's the difference?”

“It seems to me this is more of a rights issue than a public health issue. Does a business owner have the right to decide what activities and services he or she wants to offer? The market will decide how successful they are. We all know that if no one came into a bar because they didn't like the smoke, the bar owners would make it a no-smoking bar in a hot minute.

Again, I like smoke free places, but I am concerned about what will be banned next. The next thing you know they will ban Christmas!! (oops, I guess we're too late).”

“I agree, nobody should have to breathe my second hand smoke, on the other hand, I have the right to be a smoker. I do not go to businesses that do not have a smoking section. That is my choice. The non smokers also have the choice to go to a non smoking establishment. There should be both. It should be up to the business owners.”

“I agree with what Pepperdog said, "a no smoking section of a restaurant is like a no peeing section of a pool."

Bpbaby, do you have a right not to wear seatbelts? Do you drive while you're completely intoxicated? Do you have a choice?

Business owners are there to make money. People will be shooting up or having sex in their establishments if it helps the business to make a buck.

See, sometimes the govt need to step in to protect it's citizens. Like it or not.”

“I get really annoyed with businesses that will not provide a decent place for employees to smoke. As a rule smokers are less healthy yet I see smokers outside in the weather. Face it, a fourth of the adult population smokes and they can still vote--they are not felons and what they do is legal. We seem to have designated a certain group we all can look down on. I guess since we can no longer be rude to women and minorities we can all be rude to smokers and the PC says it is OK.”

“Well said MaryPhyl. Stanlee, I do not drink, and wear my seat belt whenever I feel like it. Neither is the issue here. Yes I have choices in everything buy dying.”