Wanna try the JMT with me?

“Obi, saw your post at backpacker.com, and I replied (http://forums.backpacker.com/viewMessage.jsp?message=27044&thread=2969&parent=26493&forum=3)

So we talk in two places, no? This is my first entrance into this elite and more active forum. My brother has been here before me, goes by the handle "orgregon", and may have sullied my reputation before I had a chance to, uh, sully it myself! :-)

As he may have mentioned elsewhere, we are almost in the same place at the same time, doing the whole thing N to S from July 28 to Aug 14 (or 15 or 16)... a few of our party will exit at Vermillion on 8/3, and bro and I will continue. Maybe we'll meet up...”

“Right you are, too. It's possible we could be meeting up along the way.

On that note, I mailed the permit request today. For what it's worth, the permit requests entry for 6 people... so far, that's me, wsdavies & companion, Biz (you comin', girl?), and two more, as yet unknown individuals.”

“Maybe we should change the name of this thread to" Naked Hotties on the JMT" or " 13 Days of Debauchery in California's High Sierra" Our marketing efforts seem to lack gusto and pizzaz...How about " Join the 3 mile high club and hike the JMT while your At it" I guess I can pull my tongue out of my cheek now.”

“Naked hotties on the JMT? I'm in... *JK* ... (actually, come to think of it, there are few people who would add beauty to the wilderness if they bp'd in the buff). :-)

On the topic of permits, I just called and got ours... for six out of Happy Isles on 7/28. We will lose some of that number along the way, walking out at Whitney with 2 or 3 in the party.”

“Obi, you have mail!

Hey everyone, you have fun and maybe I'll catch you next year if you do the "big one" again!

My plans and vacation time changed for later in the month so, snow nymph, I won't be able to meet up with you. Are you still going to resupply them?”

“Looks like we're going to have a small group, although that, of course, could change. I requested a permit for six, knowing that - so far - we've got three confirmed, one waffling, and two "I changed my mind" entries. As it stands, though, your offer for resupply is most kind, generous, and I, for one, believe it will halp a great deal.

Based on your experience, it would seem to me that an entry at Kearsarge, where it hooks up with the JMT, is about 4 days from Whitney. Would you agree?”

“waffling.... Til I know my job situation in 6 months. Obi, I'll know in June.”

“Obi,
I'll apply for a permit for 2 tomorrow for Aug 10 & 11. Let me know what you want me to bring in (pizza & beer?). I can carry 10 lbs max. Maybe a little more if I don't bring the stove & filter. Maybe I can talk SnowDude or WLD into going. They can help with the weight.”

“You might be able to come sans the stove & fuel, SN... we'll have ya covered!”

“Just bringing up the thread to check in with compatriots, Snow Nymph, and if you see this, you, too, Mel.

I don't know how long it'll take to get an answer back on the permit, but it's been a couple weeks now. Guess I just gotta be patient.

I got curious about a couple of other JMT threads, and caught one from ogregon (who, if lady luck follows us, we'll meet along the way, and early on, too!) which got me thinking that it's probably a good time to review and consider options for getting back to vehicles, exits fromt he trail, and so forth.

As long as my thumb works, I can rely on that as a last resort, but (and this applies to anyone coming along) what options exist will take a little research, methinks. I understand Greyhound no longer serves the Whitney Portal (or is it Lone Pine?) route back to Lee Vining (Yosemite East entrance). It's still early, I know, but I want to have everything in place WELL before departure, and I want to arrange for backup plans as well.

At this stage, I'm seeking input from my friends at TT - you KNOW who you are - and those who may be more in the know than I. Mel, I'm sure you have some valuable contributions, too, and would welcome your insight. Snow Nymph, perhaps you might have some info. to share, as well.

Thanks to all who contribute. I'm getting excited, am shopping for a new, lighter tent, and feel pretty damn good that I've got most of my gear to the point of being a lightweight (enough for me, currently) 27.1 pounds - sans water and food.

I'll continue to make what improvements I can, as I'm constantly reconsidering whether I really need as much of something as I thought, or if I need it at all. No doubt, these thoughts run through everyone's mind, when planning a trip of this magnitude, and perhaps I can knock off another 3-4 pounds. As for ME, I'm on a mission to drop some personal body weight (quitting smoking has its downside, too) now that nearly 3.5 years have passed since the cancer sticks disappeared.

As you can see, lots of thoughts and ideas running through my head, maneuvering round the rocks in the way... now and then, I even hear the cowbell rattle.

Such personal dilemma's shouldn't deter a man on a mission, so, I hope you'll offer up a few thoughts I can digest and adopt.

Thanks!

OWC”

“Obi,
Before the trip, we left our vehicles at the Mammoth Mtn Inn and took the Yartz bus to Yosemite. After the trip, we got a ride from WP to Lone Pine (sign on my pack "need ride"), then hitched LP to Bishop, then Bishop to Mammoth. The rides came easy (<5 min) with two of us. We originally had a ride (someone from the internet) but something came up (job, I think) and he couldn't make it, but let our resuppliers know. We called the bus service, but they wanted $200, and we would have had to wait a few hours, so we used our thumbs.

Also, I'm driving to Onion Valley Friday night after work, so I'll start hiking Saturday morning. If I start at 9am, I should be able to get to Charlotte/Kearsarge (where should I meet you?) by 1-2pm? I'll head out sometime Sunday. Does that fit your itinerary?

btw, good job on the packweight! It makes the trip so much nicer.”

“Thanks, Snow Nymph... I'm hoping to get both my pack weight and my front weight down so's I can lift it all a little easier.

Leaving vehicle(s) at mammoth Mtn. Inn would be fine, but getting to the TH is a dilemma... for that, only way in appears to be from Fresno... we'd have to be dropped off, assuming transportation was left at the Inn...

Alternatively, I suppose vehicle could be left at the Inn, then ride could transport us to TH. Once we reach Wh. Ptl., thumbs could work - like yours - just fine...

As for meeting you at/near Kearsarge, that sounds fine, though I need to take a closer look. If we weren't there yet, would you hike North 'til we met?

I'll have something more specific for ya in a day or so. I'm sure we can get both arrive within reasonable times of one another... besides, I like the idea of having a goal, and being there on time to meet you is high up on that list!

Soon!!!”

“SN... just took a casual look at my maps (TOPO!)... It appears to be about 90 miles from the start, at Bear Diversion Dam, to where the trail comes in from Kersarge Pass at the JMT junction.”

“phew, this thread is getting wieldy

OBI- start getting psyched!!!!!!!!”

“I could hike north. That would be 11 mi from OV (9200') over Kearsarge(~12K), down to the Junction (~10,500'), up over Glen Pass (~12K) to Rae Lakes (~10K). Might have to cut the weight down to do 2 passes. Anyone want to do this part of it with me?”

“Now that I'm looking at the #days/#miles, I guess that wouldn't work either, would it? Coming in at Taboose Pass would be a slog. (I said I wasn't gonna do that one again.....have done it twice since). Let me know what the itinerary is and I'll see what I can work out.”

“Will do. I wanted to finish my previous post, but had to log off for a few. To continue, ...

I was reviewing the mileage to get an idea what it might take to hook up. I'm guessing it would take 2 days to get to the trail junction to MR. That looks to be about 23 miles or so - 2 days. That leaves 4 days (to Saturday, late) to cover 67 miles.... could be a bit daunting... and that's with no layover. I'm gonna have to be in pretty damn good condition to do that.

On the other hand, Taboose pass looks pretty intimidating... and longer for YOU. What about Sawmill or Baxter Pass? I don't know anything about them - yet, but assume you would have mentioned them if either were a viable option.”

“I got a call from the ranger district office where I sent the permit request... something about incomplete info., so I called and took care of that. Then, I sweet-talked the woman who called, and got a little more info...

It seems that every date AFTER 8/5 is spoken for, with regards to this particular entry point, but that 8/5 was open enough to accomodate our group, such as it is. I was told it shouldn't be any problem, the permit should be issued soon, and we'll be on our way, so to speak. As I've posted recently, the request is for six people.

While there's plenty of time for prople to speak up, I'm assuming that won't happen, at least, in the forseeable future. I can't rely with any confidence in last minute changes, although if there's room on the permit, anyone's welcome, of course. In order to plan effectively - especially for potential re-supply's, food cache's if and where necessary, gear-sharing, etc. - I'm going to need enough time to make sure that everything's in place for a great hike. If you're hedging, the monkey's on your back to #&%!$ or get off the throne. Something better NEVER comes along.

Who want's to bring in my hang glider?”

“Meet on Sunday? That'll give you 5 days.

I hiked to Sawmill from the west and looked down once (ugly). Never been up Baxter, but my guess is its as bad as Taboose. Taboose Pass is about 9 mi, with 6000' gain to the top of the pass. Then its another 4 miles down to the Muir Junction. Dunno about that.

The entries north of Kearsarge are tough. I'll wait to see the itinerary.”

“Okee Dokee...

Working on it...

Bill? You out there?

Cal?

Ogregon?

Biz?

Feedback, puh-leeeeeze.”

“I'm here....Except that I go by Steve..My dads a Bill so I was designated by me mittle name. At anyrate, any resupply we can get would be fabulous..if anyone could bag Taboose or Baxter it'd be SN..wink wink..nudge nudge..Personally I'm used to bagging 15-18 mile days, so if we had to kick it up a notch for a couple of days to catch a resupply..I'm all for it. I really don't want to have to carry more than 6 days of food..as I am one of those ultralite wankers..I may be able to find some one that could help resupply us around Kearsarge, but I wouldn't know until much closer to the trip(june) Other than that..I'd say def. put some hill time in, and find a way to get your pack to about 15 lbs without food and water...ehh”

“15 pounds, you say?

Steve, is it then?

Steve... there are no pharmacies on the JMT... and I'd have to be drugged to do 18 miles.

Well, perhaps just highly motivated.

I agree, getting a little closer to departure will open up other ideas. Dropping another 12# from my pack...? Now THAT will take a little more focus.”

“Last summer our average day was 15 or so..some 18-19..the worst 21(on the High Sierra Trail) We got into Kern Canyon at 11pm my feet were hamburger..When we woke in the morning..turns out we camped 5 feet from the trail..classic..no regrets though..every minute was adventure...I think a good pace is about 12..either way I'm coy. I have the Harrison color map pack..I'll have to break it out one of these nights...”

“Never saw those Harrison JMT maps... I put together my series from TOPO!... thinking about having a very thin (3mm) laminate done on each, as it's great detail (1:12000), made my own notations, etc..

I'm sure we'll make decent time and distance, but my intent is not to burn up the trail... 12 days, 120 miles... leaves room for some fishing time! Perhaps even a few side trips, eh?”

“It's the worst pass on the east side.
I did it coming out a year ago.
NEVER again.

Downhill was the absolute worst.
Uphill?
You'd have to be out of your mind.

The steepest, narrowest, brushiest, unmaintained, water-less, campsite-less piece of crap trail on the face of the earth.

Within the first 3 miles there are two downed trees - about 100 feet long - across the trail.

They're leftovers from the flood of '97.
The section of trail they are down over is about 12 inches wide, and at a 55 degree angle.
The upside of the trail is more like 65 degrees, sand and rotten brush, the downside is sand, 60 degrees, with all the debris from the tree crash.

I made it through there with three of the Idiots and was certain we were all going to die.
It was pure luck we didn't break any legs.

Beyond the trees, much of the trail was washed out during the flood.
There are huge gullies where the trail just disappears into nearly impassable brush.

The FS has determined that Baxter will never again be maintained because that area is in the Bighorn Sheep preserve, and the population of sheep in that area is endangered and fragile.

Take my word for it. I don't lie about trails.

I did Taboose nine times in 2000.
I use it regularly as a resupply point.

Sawmill is a cakewalk compared to Baxter, and Taboose is a relative stroll in the park compared to Sawmill.

Yes, you need to be drugged.
Especially the older you get.
How do you think I managed to carry 80 pounds on my back for so
many years (besides the insanity)?

5/500's - as needed.
Now God invented The Idiot Llamas, and these days they carry the crap, and I carry the pharmacy.
And at least two beers a day whether I need them or not.

If you want the latest scheduling for the shuttles now in business, those that have replaced Greyhound, and all the local connections, let me know.

I have all the info, but I will only dispense it to people who have my e-mail, or go to my site, and e-mail me from there.

Hey, gotta' make a little cash somehow...

Poverty sucks.

Lost Tonto”

“You don't have to pay for the shuttle info.

I just want to get some people to detour through my site in case they don't find it through the search engines.

I give limited information for free.”

“Mel, If you do have a lack of income..I'd say it's worth it for the lifestyle you lead..Def. a fair trade off...”

“Lifestyles are great, but I still have to make housepayments, go to Vons, and feed the Idiots.

I'll never be rich, but I suppose that's why I ran away from the city.”

“Those trees across the trail?

They are less than 10 feet apart, and the largest parts across the trail are three to four feet in diameter.
And....extend a good 50 feet downslope from the trail - or what's left of it.”

“I'll stay on the throne and take my chances

Thanky”

“There are virtually NO places flat enough, or even open enough, to pitch a sleeping bag for at least five miles, and those five miles are bound to be some of the toughest you're likely to ever have have done.

You better plan to hike the thing early in the day, and be in damned good shape if you're going uphill.

You get too tired to travel later in the day, you'll find yourself up s#!t creek with no place to get water OR crash.

That first site is small (on the south side of the trail), surrounded by brush, ferns, oaks, and is maybe big enough for a small tent, or a bag or two.

The next available "campsite" is probably another 6 miles further west - possibly more, and then it's at the base of the switchbacks directly below the pass.
NO place to camp after that for another few miles.

Get down off the pass, and west of the first of the lakes a couple of miles west of the pass you finally run into some for real campsites.

If you plan to use Baxter, I would advise you hike it in the fall.
The brush has died out, and you can at least find the trail - most of the time.

For other feedback, ask JVZ about the Baxter trail.

He and Kent (from the '01 Llama Rama) did the trail a couple of years ago - down, not up - and these two tough guys have the same opinion of the place as me.

I did Sawmill once, in 91, uphill from the east side.
My girlfriend and I were 40, and in damned good shape.

Sawmill beat the living crap out of both of us, and I vowed never to do THAT one again, and I haven't.

And if you don't carry one hell of a lot of water, keep in mind that the "trail" is decomposed granite, pumice, ground up lava rock, and NO shade OR water for the first four miles.

There isn't any water available until you crest the ridge, and drop down and hike another mile or two west into the canyon.

This is also another trail where there is NO place to even pitch a sleeping bag (too steep, no trail margins, all brush) for at least five miles.

Been there. Done that.”

“ok, Baxter is out and Sawmill is out. Maybe Taboose, but my pack would have to be light. Its coming back now....we stashed 8 days of food each in two Garcia canisters (pre-Bearikade days) above where we met Mel for the first time. We were taking the empty canister (fuel, some clothes, bug juice, and stuff we didn't need) down lower, so we wouldn't have to hike in as far to pick it up. We talked to Mel on the way up, and found out she was resupplying. Mel, we would have paid "anything" at that time for you to take the two almost empty (borrowed) canisters out for us. After picking them up, we figured we could have left them, and bought new canisters for the extra day spent retrieving them.

Obi, you working on another plan?”

“Maybe you could parachute in SN..it'd be a new adventure for you..hehe”

“SN, how about coming in at Bubbs Creek, from the West, or Woods Creek?

I don't see many other options, but you've been out there much more than have...

If Kearsarge is still the best option for you, we may have to arrange a cache... I'll have my GPS, would that be something else to consider?”

“Any chance you guys could leave on Saturday? At 10 mi/day, you could be near Charlotte Lake on the following Sunday. Just a thought.

Bubbs Creek stays low. I don't like the windy roads from the west side, longer driving time.

Kearsarge Pass is higher. I like being high. Plus its a quick drive to the trailhead for me.

Probably the same amount of hiking miles from either end, but I prefer the east entry.”

“But, I suppose I could call them and ask if a day earlier might be possible.

Steve - you out there? Whadya think?

I was thinking low for you, SN... didn't realize you preferred altitude. I'll tinker with the log's a bit, see what I can come up with.”

“steve hiker is going on this trip????

Ah man, I am off the throne”

“Biz, wsdavies goes by Steve.

Obi, I re-read your post about Woods Creeks. I can probably do Woods, I'll leave a little earlier from work. Woods is 1-2 days closer than Charlotte Lk. I'll be around til Sunday afternoon. I like to dayhike on Sunday before heading out. So if the permits/plans can be moved to Sun instead of Mon, that might work.”

“By Sunday or Sat what exact dates are you talking about?”

“I can be at Woods Creek Sat afternoon, Aug 10th. If you leave Sat/Sun (Aug 3 or 4), and average 10 miles/day we might be able to meet on Sat/Sun (Aug 10 or 11). I think Obi said it was 80 miles or so. I'll hang out til Sun (11th) afternoon (2pm?) before heading out.

When we were out there, we left Twin Lakes, stopped for lunch at Woods, and made a small fire to burn our paper trash before heading up to Rae Lakes. If the start date moves, this would be a good meeting place.”

“...it works for wsdavies, Biz (if she's going), and anyone else who planned to join us.

Timing for me is not an issue. I was - initially - just trying to avoid potential weekend crowds, and request a date that would be easier to accomodate than a weekend (when I requested the permit). I'll contact the Permit Office to see what can be done, though I won't change anything until I clear it with everyone going. If it CAN'T be changed, well, then, we'll just have to consider other options...

Harrison Ford, where are you when we NEED you? That helicopter would come in mighty handy about now...”

“Last week, I contacted the Pineridge Ranger District, where I sent the permit request. I was following up a prior contact from them, regarding my permit request, and additional info. they needed. As of last Friday, they hadn't rec'd it. While chatting with them, I asked for a change in the entry date - to Aug. 4th instead of the 5th. This would help in organizing logistics, but since it's a Sunday, there may be more difficulty in obtaining this. I'll keep you all posted.

If we get 8/4, Snow Nymph, this should allow a bit more latitude in planning. Should amke it easier to arrange our plans for resupply, etc., don't you think?

Steve indicated this would be OK with him, but any earlier could present a problem - Steve, correct me if I'm in error on this.

Cal, if you're out there, this would make it much more likely to hook up near Bear Div. Dam trail junction with JMT...”

“OK, I got our permit for August 4th, Bear Diversion Dam TH, 6 people.

Who's coming?”

“So would starting Aug 4th get you to Woods Creek by Sat or Sun?

Is it about 10 mi from Road End to Woods? Haven't had a chance to look at maps.”

“Sounds good...think I'll fill up on a tank of Exxon gas before I head up..heeheh....”

“Snow Nymph, I think there's a better than even chance we'll be there Sunday, now that the entry date is one day earlier. It's still 80 +/- miles to Woods Cr., but having an additional day also means having a day or two of rest. Getting there - on time, so to speak - is a great deal more likely with that extra day.

It looks to be about 13.5 miles from Roads End, past Mist Falls, up Woods Cr., and to the junction with the JMT. On the other hand, taking the Bubbs Cr. trail would be about 10 miles, but the junction with the JMT is a bit further South, about 13 miles.

The path seems clear. Looks like we're on our way. Can't wait!”

“It looks like things have changed from the beginning. How many days are you doing and how many miles a day are you going to cover?”

“As in most things, wingding, our plans were a moving target, though the arc is less obvious now... I believe we'll probably still require about 12 days, but, since day 12 is a Friday, we'll have the weekend if we need it.

As for daily mileage, I'd plan on 10-12 each day, average. Some days may be less, others more... it will average out.

Reconsidering?”

“Sounds good! I'll be back from WY the weekend before(3rd), and dayhiking Whitney on Monday (5th), so I'll be able to do the 13.5 miles. I think I have a partner to help with the resupply. I'll apply for the permit for Roads End to Woods Creek tomorrow!”

“What a BABE!

I find it strangely humbling that you plan to "dayhike" Whitney, as if it were a walk in the park... clearly, I need to train better for this one.

I'm gonna test some of Mel's recipe's in the next month or so... and considering the Bearikade. I guess I can just order it online, huh?”