montanapalooza 2002

“My user name was wjgiles, which is my name. On my first trail talk trip I met Jerbear at the trailhead and he said "jgeils!!". People have called me that quite a few times and I wanted to get my real name off the board so I changed it. I like it okay, but I would like to some day get a better one. I have several nicknames at work, but the last thing I want to be reminded of while hiking is work.”

“How can you even think about coming to Montana without the matching jacket! GRIN”

“Hi Snow Nymph,
How'd the final weekend of snowboarding go?”

“well shucks! discriminating against flyers? Ya know... flying over 2000 miles can wear ones arms out! i should get some kind of prize! :)

and not to mention flying in these times can be as treacherous as taking a freakin wagon train out west was....”

“Okay Geezr, I ordered the jacket. Can I come to Montana now? LOL”

“Jgeils,
You'll be the best dressed hiker on Trail No. 15!!!!!!!!!!”

“Yippee!!!! :)”

“Besides we didn't want to be forced into changing your moniker to PIGPEN”

“That wasn't how Bruce Willis said it. :)”

“Om has a good point there. Do you guys think it is ridiculous to think that I can get my pack weight to 30 lbs.? Aero and Geezr seemed to think it was possible. I'm not a hulking woman and I'm not feeling to confident about lots o' poundage on the back. Also, is it retarded to give up my thermarest? I feel like I don't need it, but . . .”

“Don't worry about it too much, Newgirl. You're bound to have a few things, that you don't need. And a few things, that you wish you had.

Some things, like your Therma-rest, are worth their weight. Would you rather carry a 30lb pack after a lousy nights sleep, or a 31lb pack feeling good....”

“Okay, you win. Good argument.”

“Geezr,
It was a GREAT closing weekend on Mammoth Mountain. It was tough keeping up with this group (mostly skiers, with 65-180 days in this season). And I thought I was doing good with my measly 47, sheesh!! Even managed to get a hike in Saturday evening! Got the last Gondola ride up, and finished with a ride down Climax, through the half pipe, and down the snowboard park, with the ski patrol behind us. The mountain closes at 4pm, we got off at 4:30pm! Sooooo, now its time to backpack again!

Getting ready for Olancha Peak this weekend!”

“Closing weekend at Mammoth and a evening walk up Convict Canyon"

We'll be backpacking Convict in 2 weeks. I got a peek at the first part of the trip!”

“Snow Nymph,
I viewed your Mammoth and Convict photos. It sure looked like you all had a great time. Now is Mammoth just southeast of Yosemite? Where would Convict Canyon be from there?”

“H of BC
Are you guys allowed to carry bear spray up there? I know you can't cross the border with it, at least from the U.S. into Canada, but can you as a citizen take it on the trail?”

“Hey Geezr - We like to think of that one, as more of a guideline than a law. Technically, I think it's banned, but you can buy, carry it and use it, so ...umm. It's a bit of a grey area”

“H of BC,
Are bears a problem for you? I believe I saw some of your photos that had a grizzly in one of them. Do you carry spray? Are you comfortable not carrying it?

Here, it's 50 50. Usually when hiking alone I take it. I've never encountered a bear in the Beartooth Range where I do most of my hiking, but I've been charged by a moose. I've encountered black bears back in Michigan but never had spray until moving west.”

“Geezer - I've got a problem with a black, that's taken a liking to the young apple trees, which I had planted in my brother's back yard....

Actually, I never carried bear spray, and I guess that I'm not convinced enough of its effectiveness, to justify the weight.

After my first Griz encounter, I started carrying a 'bear banger', which you may know is a blank 22 cartridge, on a pen sized launcher. It also fires flares and is hardly a burden. I still seem to go for the camera first, though.

I suppose if I ever have a 'really bad' bear experience, I may reconsider”

“Based on my vast experience (have seen two black bears on trails, one from a car, one grizz from a bus (in Denali), several bears on TV), here's what I think about bear "issues:" (OK, so I've never really had to deal with this, but I've talked to a lot of people who HAVE had to, so this is what I think.)

Black bears: Basically, these are just rats on steroids. They're usually just curious, like to scrounge around for food scraps and are easily chased off by shouting and maybe throwing some small rocks (no need to stone them to death like the Boy Scout troop did in CA a few years back). Attacks are extremely rare, but most people can survive them pretty well just by fighting back (heck, most of them aren't any bigger than your average college football player). Don't ever play dead - that says, "I'm food, eat me" to the bear.

Grizzly bears: So rare to see one, not worth worrying about, but surprise encounters usually just result in a lot of bluffing. According to a Denali ranger who had this happen to him more than a dozen times, just stand your ground if a grizzly charges you. He'll veer off at the last second. IF he accidentally brushes up against you, DO fall down and play dead. Worst case, he'll bat you around a bit and scratch you up, but won't eat you.

Summary: Store your food and other smelly items properly and you won't have any trouble. If you're alert, always aware of your surroundings, and know what to do in a confrontation, there's no need to carry spray, guns, or other stuff. I've heard more stories of people hurting themselves with those items than of successfully defending themselves from a bear attack.

Best scenario: You spy a black or grizzly bear. Get yourself upwind of him and with plenty of distance, make a little bit of noise. Get out the camera and snap away, or just sit down and watch.

JMHO.”

“Geezr, do you see many snakes in the area that we're going?”

“I know we've covered this, recently, on a couple of different 'bear threads', so as far as Montanapalooza is concerned. I've read where there is no recorded attacks on a group as large as eight people.... That pretty much rules out this mob. He He

Martyb - I pretty much agree with your assesment, up to the last lines.

Blacks - I consider more likely to attack, since they are more likely to have previous and possibly bad experiences with humans. Most of the ones I have encountered either continue browsing, or saunter off. I would not suggest 'fighting back' out of hand, however, you do stand a better chance than you would with a Griz

Griz - Yes, if it actually contacts you and is not 'bluffing', play dead since you don't have a hope in hell of fighting it anyways. If it swats again, roll as far as you can, then lie prone again, with your arms covering your head and neck.

As for 'bat and scratch'... Well, a 12" paw with 4" claws can do a lot of damage. My friend 'Grizzly Malcom' took one on with an axe, when it aproached a young girl in their camp, and one 'scratch' removed his eye, ear and two thirds of his scalp.

However, that is hardly typical behavior, for a Griz. They are likely well aware of your presence, before you see them, and will move on. I've seen a lot more fresh track and recent digs, than I have actual Grizzlies.

I am cautious about suggesting a specific course of action, when dealing with attacks, since no two situations (or bears) are the same. Prevention and good 'bear sense' is always the best course”

“Jgeils,

No snakes . . . it's a good thing too because I've never found SNAKE SPRAY. ;-)”

“I talked to your dad last Saturday. He said he did his best to bring you up proper but you turned into a backpacker anyway!”

“That's good, we have more than our fair share here in Arkansas. Between the snakes, ticks, chiggers, etc. it isn't much fun to hike here in hot weather.”

“Fun is something I can guarantee. Montana is synonymous with fun.”

“I'm really looking forward to this trip!! I'm starting to sound like crazy mike. He's contagious :)”

“Geezr, Convict Lake is SE of Yosemite, about 8-10 mi south of Mammoth. Convict Lake is named for a group of escaped prisoners that ended up in this canyon a long time ago. We're backpacking here in a few weeks.”

“Jgeils,

Penicillin might help, though if Crazy Mike has it, it might require mega-doses.”

“Snow Nymph,
I researched it a little after seeing your photos. Looks like a great area. Have you backpacked this before?”

“Sorry but I can't read all these posts...
Is anyone from Michigan / Great Lakes area going to this and looking to share a ride?”

“We've backpacked most of the easy access areas in the Eastern Sierras. Convict is a more rugged trip, so we never did it. We're looking for new areas to backpack, so that's where we're going. We saw photos at a art show of Genevieve Lake and Dorothy Lake and decided we had to see this place. We're backpacking there in 2 weeks.

This coming weekend we're backpacking Olancha, just south of Lone Pine. This is also a new place for us. The start of our training for Montanapalooza!!!”

“"as far as Montanapalooza is concerned. I've read where there is no recorded attacks on a group as large as eight people.... That pretty much rules out this mob. He He"

So what about small groups . . . . like me and SnowDude, backpacking the Winds. Think we'll see grizzlies? Black bears have never been a problem for us, but we have not met any grizzlies yet. I would rather not carry bear spray, but with only two of us, should we?”

“I sure hope you get to see one, SN..... at a safe distance, of course. They are an awesome sight to see.”

“sn.....spent 5 days in the winds and never saw a bear....two years ago....”

“Snow Nymph,

I read where the highest concentration of grizzlies outside of Alaska is in the the Bridger-Teton National Forest, which borders the Wind Range. Apparently they are coming out of Yellowstone to feed on gut piles, etc left over from elk hunting and staying. Last year a ranger from the Buffalo Ranger District was mauled and barely survived. Several out-fitters havemoved their operations because they can't protect clients.

I'm going into the Bridgers to work with the CDTA building a pack bridge over Pacific Creek and they're telling everyone to bring bear repellant.

Just thought I'd pass that along. Do with it what you like!”

“Snow Nymph,

At the least I'd check with the ranger district for that area and see what they suggest.”

“Snow, are you still going in the west side of the Winds? I know the griz are thicker on that side.

When we did the trip in from Dickinson Park, we ran into a ranger, some horse packers and a few hikers. All said there were no bears on that (east) side...yet. We were packing spray and firearms. Never saw any sign of bear the entire time.

Snakes ? No snakes above 7500'. Too cold.”

“BTW, don't anyone bring any firearms on Montanapalooza.

The life you save may be MINE!”

“After asking around, 3 people suggested the west side and said they didn't have problems with horses or people. We want to do at least 80-100 miles and their routes fit what we're looking for. The 3 people do long distance hiking, so we went with their suggestion. We started looking at the description on the west side, but didn't see where we could stretch the mileage, and weren't sure which passes we could go over. We don't fish, so fishing isn't a priority. If someone could come up with a recommended route that has been traveled on the east side, we would look into it. But for now, we have the 3 recommendations with route descriptions and trip reports for the west side.”

“Have you been down to check out the new Draper (sp?) Museum of Natural History yet? I'm thinking about making a little trippy-poo down there on Sun. to check it out.”

“Snow, can you give me a brief intinerary of what you are planning?”

“No, it just opened to the public yesterday.

What a zoo!!!!

Every spot in the parking lot was full as was every spot within a two-block radius. I'll wait a awhile. I have heard that it is awesome though.

You're not going to treat newergirl to Pizza on the Run, are you?

LMBO!!!!!!!”

“Squint Eastwood was down there. They had his picture in the Gazette today!”

“My boss, who is on the board for the museum, said that the talk given by Leakey the night before was really good too.

I'm looking forward to the (controversial) bronze of the Buffalo Jump. They have it set up as if they are jumping in from outside the building. You can see this huge window from outside. I guess the bronze is right there.”

“I am totally pumped to check this out. I have a friend from Holland who has been interning down there for the last several summers. She said it rocks. What was it, like 6 million?! I think I'm going to try and talk a bud into going. Newergirl will not be up for a day of driving and then touring a gigantic museum. Too much for the little one. I will definitely be getting some Pizza On The Run. I've needed some forever. Aero, Squint Eastwood . . . now that is funny.”

“Hey Geezr,

Yeah, my dad emailed that he had spoken with you - now he's more psyched than ever for the trip. We'll have to reminisce about our ill-fated overnighter to the eastern Sierra when I get there. Re: snakes, just go over to their house (above Alkalai Creek) and you can likely encounter a rattler or two....

All,

I visited the "Stardate" web site (they do a syndicated radio spot every week or so) to do some checking on moon phases, etc. for my trips, and I looked up the 'palooza dates, too. Looks like a full moon on 7/24, which (I think) means pretty good stargazing for the trip (i.e., not too much moonlight). Jupiter will probably still be pretty bright and high in the sky (maybe - heck, I'm just an amateur at this stuff) - it pretty much lit up the whole dang sky on my winter camping trip in Feb! I could even make out a couple of the moons using my REI monocular. Sunrises will be at about a quarter to 6, with sunsets at about 9. They post a list of star and planet highlights every month - July isn't posted yet. Here's the link to the Stardate home page:

Stardate

Another fun link for y'all is the NPS's webcam at Mammoth in Yellowstone. It's about 40 miles west of the trailhead - fun to check on the weather there, as well as the occasional elk. Here ya go:

Mammoth webcam

They also have a cam at Mt. Washburn, which is closer, but it's not working right now - they say they plan to fix it in late June.

Mt. Washburn webcam

Enjoy!”

“Here's the Stardate link again:

Stardate”

“Guns . . . please tell me no one will be packin' heat. I'm unarmed!”

“try closer to 10 million. Way over budget.”