our OIL does not come form the MIDDLE EA ST

“All our imported oil comes from South America not Saudi Arabia. Europe is highly dependant on the mideast. The South American oil producers are a part of OPEC and so they opperate in coalition with the mideast so the price is regulated in this way. I was supprized when I learned this last semester, but it is true. Also we are only dependant on about 10 or 20 percent of forign oil.”

“Where did you get that info at?”

“Geography 165 and the teacher was right. I looked it up in a couple different places. Energy Flow charts that show it also. It makes sence if you think about it. Why ship oil around the world when you can ship it accross the gulf of mexico. I think we get it from Venesula. (not sure how to spell that word.)”

“Here's some recent data, perhaps your geopgraphy instructor could use some updating.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/”

“That is proof the most of the educatiuon system is in a shambles.

THINK GULF WAR!!!We weren't there to save the nice buildings.”

“Why a typo now-
My day has sucked.”

“So only 26% comes from the middle east. At least I was 74% right!”

“I thought some came from Canada too.”

“That's not the point. We are still very dependent on Middle East oil in an indirect way. If Europe was not able to obtain oil from the Middle East, increased demand on Asian, Russian, South American, and Canadian oil would increase prices worldwide, even on oil pumped and used within the U.S. The economic shock waves would affect the entire world. Even nations that are not large oil consumers or importers would feel the effect. Stable and regular oil supplies are still the best hope for world peace and ending poverty. Only nations with strong and stable economies can develop strong environmental polices. WTO and NAFTA are dirty words in some circles, but are still the fastest way to reduce environmental degradation in third world countries.”

“As long as the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer there will never be world peace. Someone will always have what anouther wants so don't try to argue that more oil works towards world peace.

Why not decrease our dependancy on oil? How come that is always such an avoided alternative?”

“There will never be world peace...PERIOD...There is evil in the world..always has been...read into the entire recorded history of man...Whats the common denominator= War and Strife...Why..man is inherently greedy and self serving..This won't change.. This is why the free market is the least of many evils...It's the best thing we've got, and the only thing that has been proven to improve peoples lives..Lets not feck up a good thing.”

“You are correct sir... Our oil doesn't come form the Middle East. But as long as the Middle East has oil...we'll be buying some of it.”

“We're getting a lot more oil from Russia these days. Russsia has lots of oil. Has never been a player due to lack of a warm weather seaport in the middle of the freezing winter. Hmmmmmm... think about it...”

“I hope no one on this board is interested in my testicles or other bodily functions. If you start a flame expect to get consumed.
Anyway, Folks act like 20% or so isn't signifcant. Try living on a 20% reduction in salary as an example.
Gordon quotes:
"Stable and regular oil supplies are still the best hope for world peace and ending poverty". Doesn't the middle East have a "stable and regular" oil supply?
This idea of a free market, as we know it, is really only about 50 years old, post WWII. So don't act like it's the only thing that's ever worked. Have we had any less wars since the "free market" in the last 50 yrs? Before that civilization was more agriculture, , craft,barter/trade, etc. People were tied more directly to there existence and survival. WTO wants to take that away. I personnaly don't want to part of the collective as defined by the ruling class.”

“There will never be peace as long as there are HAVEs and have-nots. Resentment is what fuels war and devisiveness. The wealthy and Republican types are the root of all evil in this world. The only cure is global communism. Death to the HAVEs.”

“It appears lots of people here slept through school. They sure didn't learn anything about world history, politics, or economics.

Will we ever have total world peace? Probably not. The goal is worth the effort, though. Partial victories are still preferable to throwing up your hands in disgust and claiming futility.

Decrease dependency on oil? Been doing that for over 50 years. The industrialized world HAS became more efficient in energy use, contrary to the lies perpetuated by the environmental movement. Research into alternative energy sources is continuing and giant strides have been made in the last few years. Practical large-scale alternatives are still several decades away. Until then, oil is a primary source. BTW - the largest contributors for alternative energy research are the oil companies. So much for the 'giant multinational conspiracy' theory.

Is the Middle East a stable source? Hardly. Regardless of what happens in Afghanistan and Palestine, political instability will be there for a long time.

Free market only 50 years old? Laughable! Capitalism is the oldest economic system in existence. It predates recorded history. A barter economy is capitalism. The first capitalists were farmers that traded some of their crop for a cartload of furs.

Between 55 and 60% of all wood use in the world is for cooking and heating. The largest cause of deforestation in the third world is not corporate logging. It is slash and burn agriculture and firewood gathering. Opponents of WTO are perpetuating these practices by denying indigenous peoples the opportunity to practice sustainable resource use. Subsistence economies are far worse for local ecosystems than developed economies. The myth of 'native peoples living in harmony with the land' is exactly that -- a myth. Very few native cultures practiced any sort of conservation policies, a few, but quite rare. Most exploited the land until local resources disappeared, then moved on to a new location.

Stop getting your facts from Captain Planet comic books and analyse the long term effects, pro and con, of some of the knee-jerk pronouncements of the enviro-ignorati and eco-talibans.”

“Most indigenous people didn't have bulldozers or cars”

“Such vitriol from Captain Industry.”

“"I hope no one on this board is interested in my testicles or other bodily functions. If you start a flame expect to get consumed."

Dude, I absolutely love your straight forwardness! You's all right man. I'm thinking of starting every single group I hike I go on with your warning. Is it copy writted yet? Mind if I use it? LOL!”

“Only 20% of our oil is imported?

Last I read, over 50% of the domestic crude supply was imported.

And it continues to rise.”

“"This idea of a free market, as we know it, is really only about 50 years old, post WWII."
- willk
11:19:52 AM
01/19/02

Duh, duh, doy?

Adam Smith wrote "Wealth of Nations" in 1776. In it he argued for free trade among nations.”

“Damn it V-Man, stop clouding the issues with facts!”

“Yes. WillK you should know about getting flamed.

We're considered the "progressive nation." So get progressive and take it to the next level. Petroleum is needed for solar panels. The companies can ween themselves from oil industry and make the transition to the solar industry over the next 10 years. Then we can get the feck outta the Middle East to appease the Arabs, Muslims and whoever else wants to use violence to make a point (of course we'll park a big aircraft carrier off their coast, but hey, ya gots to do what ya gots to do). Doesn't seem all that crazy to me. Time to move to a rechargeable system. Just DO IT!!!”

“Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that
don't import their oil from the Saudis.

Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time
you fill-up your tank, we are sending our money to people who
are trying to kill us, our families and friends.

The major companies that import Middle Eastern oil (for the period 9/1/00 -8/31/01) are:
Shell 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco 144,332,000
Exxon/Mobil 130,082,000
Marathon 117,740,000
Amoco 62,231,000

If you do the math at $30/barrell, these imports amount to
over $18 BILLION!

Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
Citgo 0 barrels
Sunoco 0
Conoco 0
Sinclair 0
BP/Phillips 0

This information is available from can be easily documented. Refineries located in the U.S.
are required to state where they get their from oil monthly and
how much they are importing.
Keep this list in your car; share it with friends. Do your
part.

Stop paying for terrorism.”

“Nothing is more frustrating to me than all that's wrong with this exhortation to stop "funding terrorism" by not buying gasoline from companies who import crude oil from the Middle East. To wit:

The political naïveté that asserts "Middle Eastern" equals "terrorist," and that by purchasing gasoline refined from Middle Eastern crude oil you are "sending your money to people who are trying to kill you." Not everyone from the Middle East is a terrorist, nor does every terrorist hail from the Middle East. Moreover, groups such as the Al-Qaeda have built up financial investments and portfolios so complex and diverse over the years that they can operate quite effectively without receiving direct revenues from oil exports.

The notion that because a refinery purchases crude oil from a non-Middle Eastern country, they're not buying Middle Eastern oil. A good deal of the crude oil purchased from Russia, for example, is oil from Iraqi fields sold through Russian middlemen, but it still shows up in the refineries' books as having been imported from Russia.

The implication that most of the oil exported to the U.S. comes from the Middle East. According to the Energy Information Administration (as reported by The New York Times), the biggest exporters of oil to the USA in 2000 were (in millions of barrels per day):
Canada: 1.69
Saudi Arabia: 1.57
Venezuela: 1.52
Mexico: 1.36
Nigeria: 0.89
Iraq: 0.61

The shaky grasp of supply and demand evidenced by the proffered scheme. Oil refineries generally operate at close to full capacity; if everyone in the USA stopped buying gasoline from Shell, Chevron, Texaco, Exxon, and Mobil, and instead purchased their gas only from Citgo, Sunoco, Conoco, Sinclair, Phillips, or BP Amoco-supplied service stations, guess what? Those companies wouldn't be able to come close to satisfying the sudden increase in demand for gasoline, because their refinery capacity is limited. Their supplies would run out, and prices would skyrocket. And even if they could somehow come up with extra refinery capacity necessary to fulfill the increased demand, they'd almost certainly have to turn to Middle Eastern exporters for the additional crude they'd need to supply those refineries.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/nogas.htm”

“I think we should have different ways to fuel our cars but that will never happen I know. Tooo much money involved for some to lose. We don't have to rely on anyone else for fuel if we used new methods. Say hemp, corn and others I am sure. Let's put our farmers back in the money not the big oil companys.
Barbara”

“A sincere thanks for adding your imput Mr.kleetn. But how do you know YOUR cut&paste is correct?”

“Because I am BATMAN!”

“i'll send a rig over to drill a well in your back yard.KEEP IT LOCAL.”

“Buddur, go to snopes2.com and check em' out. That website is dedicated to debunking urban myths... they post their sources and have a scale on their faith in the findings, very good site, they don't seem to be slanted left or right”

“Barter economy is not capitalism.

In capitalism the capitalists control the capital and thereby or usually control the governing body unless the government is strong enough to exert the will of the people and make the capitalists play fair.

Lacking a strong government the capitalists influence the law-making to ensure their privilege and further increase their capital.

Georgie Dubya Regime = Weak Government........weak mind~~~~~~~~~~”

“Yeah well, snopes may have made some mistakes, they also have a disclaimer that states that mistakes are possible and double check everything... they even say they have a false story in there to keep you on your toes. And it sounds like Elvin is doing a little self-promoting based on the hard work of the Mikkelsons”

“Doy you prople know how long it would take for the car companys to fully convert cars over to NG or electric?

A long time!

And they are in no hurry to do so becuase they will not make as much money and to start making the new care they will have to redo all the factories which will cost them alot of money.

Thus they are in no big hurry to do so.

As far as oil goes companys have to do what they have to do in order to make money.So if they have to get it from other places then thats what they have to do.

Its just like NAFTA.I thought that sucked but there is nothing that I can do about it.The goverment screwed as again and what we can do at best it get mad at them and let them know how we feel!

8|”

“I thought that BP = Shell.

I don't buy gas from BP or Shell after the mess they made of Nigeria.”