Heartbroken

“I first heard the song driving home from a 1/2 way house where I was working with several adult patients who had been severely abused as kids. Pat told their truth pretty directly.”

“Those lyrics are very moving, Ped.”

“i saw Pat here last year, she did this song.
it is an upsetiing song”

“We raised two boys. They had more cuts, scrapes, hooks imbedded in body parts, black-eyes, road rash stitches and casts than one can imagine. Never once did we lay an hand on them. Just because mom raised her voice to her daughter doesn't mean she gave her the black eyes. Parents sometimes are at their wits end. Sometimes they raise their voice to their children. Sometimes they do handle situations wrong. That doesn't make them child abusers.”

“My wife is worried all the time that someone will see our son and think we're hitting him. Last night, he was balancing on the arm of a couch, fell off, and managed to bruise his front and back...amazing. He's just an average boy though, always into something.”

“Before you get jumped all over Geezr, you should probably make it clear that you are referring to Fritz's post at the beginning of this thread and not the one about the woman in Indaiana.”

“Yes, Violin, I indeed was responding to Fritz's original post. Like him, I've encountered similar situations and felt soooooo bad for the kids. Then I remember what it like raising them and that sometimes things really weren't as they appeared.”

“When my daughter was about 2 yrs old. she had a bed were the matterss fit into the bed. so every time she would run and jump into her bed, she would bang the front of her shins. I took her to the Ped.s and told what happened and why I brought her here (I didn't want to get into trouble because of the bruises)
her doctor laughed at me and said don't worry about it cause all children get brusies because of different reasons.
I did feel better by him saying that, but I also felt better by going and getting it on record!”

“Yes, I just saw Geezr's post and yours Violin...and it was clear he was referring to the original post in this thread.

Geezr...I know what you mean. My daughter broke her left arm when she was two, and broke her right arm three months later. We were almost afraid to take her to the hospital.

If you read the whole thread you will see both sides of the original issue were well represented.

This thing today, though...are there two sides to that???? I mean, I have from time to time "slapped" my kid, not real hard, on top of the head, when he richly deserved a lot more than that....but that woman was just outright beating her kid. Punching her.

[Shaking my head....dismayed...]”

“Our second child was born with a broken clavicle as a result of back labor – her head was down, but she was facing the wrong way. Despite being checked numerous times in the hospital, no one noticed it until about two weeks later, when my wife noticed a funny bump in her collarbone. The doctor asked some probing questions and we felt we had to question our then 7 year old. The poor thing caught on and was very distressed that we could even suspect her of hurting her cherished baby sister.

Mistakes can be made, but since child abuse hides in the dark, it is better to assume too much than to turn a blind eye, in my opinion. I called DYFS on a neighbor after she told my daughter what was going on in her house with her mom’s boyfriend. I learned from the case-worker that I wasn’t the first to call. The bastard was subsequently removed from the house.”

“Fritz, I honestly didn't read every post in this thread, but I did read your original. I didn't gather from that post that you had actually seen the mom beating the little girl. That would have been a hard thing to have walked away from.”

“My sister-in law had twins. A little girl and a little boy. after 4 days the little boy died. It has sinced been named SIDS. nothing but god could have saved the little boy. But because of the death my brother and sister-in law were questioned along with the rest of our and her family up until 3 months ago, he died 2/00.
It is best to help the child right away First! then ask questions.
sorry but Childen come first no matter what!”

“Violin, you're right. You can't be too safe when it comes to children , as well as others, who can't defend themselves or seek help. We as adults have to protect them from wrongs being done.”

“A friend of mine works at a certain large home improvement chain. He was helping a customer when the customer’s kid started climbing up on something. My friend told the kid to be careful. The guy turned around and smacked his son upside the head pretty hard. My friend (who’d been through his own hell as a kid) told the guy, “I was worried about your son getting hurt. If I thought by saying something he’d get hurt worse, I’d have kept quiet.” The abuser started acting aggressive toward my friend so he picked up a tool used for bending conduit and asked him to back down. He did (of course) but went and complained to my friend’s boss. His boss explained how he understood that he was trying to do the right thing but that they were all just trying to make it through the day with as little hassle as possible. Wrong attitude!”

“I have a question,
Do you think in this day in age, that a child that is hit as a kid will grow up and hit as an adult?

I was hit,
but I don't hit my children

I grew up with an alcholoic(sp)parent
but I know when to stop.
I learned from there mistakes

what do you think?”

“I think you're an abusive drunkard in denial.”

“""hik-up""



i is not damnitt”

“That woman is supposed to turn herself in today (Sat). I always thought the males were the more agressive of the species....

Pat Benatar rocks....small framed lady...but she can sing out loud.”

“If I find her (the Indiana B!tch) first, do I get to beat the snot out of her before I turn her in?


I have an extremely low tolerance for people who hurt children.”

“and lower yourself to that level skullcap?”

“DOM, Ms. TooGood should be afraid, she should be VERY afraid. She is one of the most despised women in America this week. And of course hurting her would be wrong, but it would not be on the same level as beating a 4 or 5 year old little girl.”

“Where she is headed, she will find out how it feels. Then again, she already knows, because child abuse is a vicious circle. This woman grew up on the receiving end. That's the sadness of it. Abuse begets abuse. There really is no point in hating her. She's just passing on the family secret. She never found a way out.

And that point is crucial. We have to keep working to interrupt the cycle of abuse and get help for both victims and abusers. That is the only way out.”

“Wow, that sounds bad. I hadn't heard about this yet. It sounds like there are three children belonging to this woman that need to be evaluated and removed to safety.

I've dealt with abused children and they often have a huge fear of being removed from their family and placed with strangers. Often they will not cooperate with the authorities because of their fears. It is so sad that these children have so little feeling of love and security. Are there any studies that show statistics on how well children fare after they are removed from abusive families?”

“The woman is from a family of Irish itinerant workers, no wonder the cops got no cooperation. 3 kids, 4,5, and 6. No spaces in between at all. Can't be too healthy for her or for the kids.”

“They usually do release the kids back to the parents eventually. In some cases they send them for parenting classes and then they get them back.”

“With all due respect, I don't think there is anything inherently unhealthy about three kids 4, 5 and 6. But I heard that woman has been in trouble before, down in Dallas I think. She obviously has issues.”

“1 kid a year for 3 years running doesn't sound unhealthy to you? It very much is, Fritz.”

“I had 3 kids in two years and although it's tough, I don't believe the situation is unhealthy. The guys are 6,5 and 5 now, lots of fun but a real handful. The only thing that keeps me from losing my mind after a few days with the kids is being able to get away from them. Parents with no support system may not have the option of time alone, and that is the sort of situation that can lead to abuse.
BTW I am not making excuses for anyone, but this could be the situation some of the time when you see those irritated parents whack their kid's behind in the walmart toy aisle. It is really hard to be subjective when your head feels like it will explode if one more kid whines again (for the hundredth time) for yu gi oh cards(or whatever).”

“In Iowa the DHS -- Dept. of Human Services -- division that does child care investigations really got cracked down on maybe 2 years ago. Cuz a girl -- who by all indications seems she should have been removed from home -- was killed by the parent.

OK, and do I get to tell my story? lol... I endoed on my mountain bike onto asphalt. 3-point landing, left knee, right should, right temple (helmet took impact) and side of face.

Sunglasses broke out (didn't shatter, thank goodness). I had a bad black eye. that side of face was all scraped too. People looked at my then boyfriend pretty funny.”

“Lizs, there's no need to protect yo boyfriend here...we're family here at TT. The truth shall set you free... :o)”

“That vicious cycle line is a lame excuse. If you look into the actual numbers, the vast majority of people who were abused as children don't abuse their own children. And there are many who abuse children who were not abused themselves although these are not as common. As an adult she is responsible for her own decisions and her own behavior. Try telling that little girl that it's just a vicious cycle. It won't make her bruises go away. It won't help her at all.”

“i was abused(shup violin) and it only instilled a resolve in me to never do that to my kids or anyone else. not that is was a good thing but some good came out of it. i am determined to break the cycle. i have forgiven my father for his alchol induced insanity and moved on.”

“It's not always a matter of forgiving the parents in cases of abuse. Its about the behavior patterns established in the child, in their responses to anger and stress. It can be very crippling, even if the abuse was not severe or physical.”

“OK, I'LL TELL!! STANLEE WAS MY BOYFRIEND THEN!!!

lol

And I started reading Skully's post about "That vicious cycle line is a lame excuse"... and though she meant I was lying about my bicycle accident, toooooooooo!!!!”

“Moooooowahahahahahahahahaha!!!”

“Too much!!!!!!!

8)”

“Lizs, I must've been on the WEED back then...I don't seem to recall. :o)”

“i think i know what it's about , in my case anyways. i dealt with alot of crazy #&%!$ as a kid. no child should ever go though what i did. it was not physical, ,but it was severe. i just realized that it wasn't my fault & got on with my life. i know i am lucky, to have been able to deal with it & not let it get to me. many are not so lucky.


ps....i would quite literally kill any person that did to my kids what happened to me....”

“I hear you. You and me both, dude. I'm still trying to get over some of it.”

“Sorry to hear about your misfortune, Stradewd and Treebait. I guess, Treebait, that this is what you were talking about before, but I was misunderstanding. But even still, when you've weaned the baby, give some vitamins a try. The basic ones I mentioned will really help you feel emotionally stronger, which will feel good after the stress of baby feedings every two hours.”

“No, this wasn't what I was talking about. Believe me, there's a fundamental difference between my loner tendencies and those experiences.”

“ty lyndy”

“Okay. Give the baby a hug and kiss for me, Treebait.

What do you all think of the interviews with the Kohl's Video Mom? Was she coached really well? She seemed to have a great deal of inner strength, rather than seeming like a lady out of control.”

“I am embarassed to admit it (I must be getting soft in my old age) but I actually felt sorry for her. She seemed very sincere, very remorseful, very devastated. I believed all of it. I believe she loves her daughter.

None of that changes what happened, though. And it doesn't necessarily mean she should go unpunished and/or get her child back. I don't know. When it comes to kids...you know you want to do whatever you have to do to protect them...but it is just so tough sometimes to balance parental rights, giving the parent the benefit of the doubt, with protecting children. These things are almost never as clear-cut as we would like.”

“Do you think it is really possible that that was the only time she ever lost control like that?”

“no way dood.....



i cant figure out how they got that on video. was it just a surveylance camera? if so, how did they noticee it?”

“They apparently had a verbal disagreement with her inside the store, felt she was acting suspiciously, and might even have gone out of control. That was why they followed her into the parking lot.

Re abuse of children: abuse can be sexual, physical, mental, or emotional. I had trouble coping with things my dad had done, but eventually came to the realization he was the same dad who held my hand while the doctor stitched my ankle, dried my tears, and told me he was proud that I didn't cry. Memories of abuse are held through the mind of the victim and seem to overpower the love we were given. It's hard to put it into perspective. Abuse, as I said earlier, is handed down from generation to generation until somebody finally breaks the cycle.

Those who have broken the cycle, Strat and Treebait, are courageous and strong. Eventually you can let go of the hurt and pain. That is the real healing. Keep on doing well.

When dad died I wanted to be by his side. He went too early for me to get there, but I was there the night before, the best I could do for him.

Pain is nature's way of telling us something is wrong. After we figure that out, we don't need to carry pain around with us. Just let go.

This woman, her tears and apparent remorse notwithstanding, has known some kind of pain. One interviewer asked her whether anybody had beaten her as a child. She said no, adding that she had been a handful. But her face is a mask of pain. Something traumatic did happen to her as a child, and she's blocked it out of active memory. She has a lot of issues to deal with. She probably does love her children and probably did just go out of control. But what happened is just a symptom of a larger underlying issue she has not dealt with.

Lashing out at others is an infantile way of dealing with situations that are out of control and at least momentarily devastating in an emotional sense. Most people just shrug their shoulders and go on. Some just cannot deal with it and lash out at whoever is close - in this case with severe consequences all around. This infantile inability to handle stress is likely in those who have been abused as kids and have not come to grips with it. There but for the grace of God go a lot of us who have been fortunate enough to have found peace.”

“amen......”

“She apparently has more problems: Mom who beat child then fled to Jersey, Photos of naked girl led police to woman”

“dam.....”