Ultralight Backpacking???

“Your darn tooten it was good!!”

“skull - I swear the TTers here were talkin' 'bout that on a thread not too long ago. Did a search under bear cannisters and bear, couldn't find it. Help, anyone??”

“Maybe National Parks?”

“Ultralight might be fine for people who can't carry much more than a book bag, but I like to camp comfortably. I would much rather hike 15 miles in a day with an 60 pound pack and be comfortable and well fed in camp than hike 20 miles with a 20 pound pack, then lay down like Jacob with a rock as my pillow. 60 pounds may sound like a lot to some but we often carried 100 pounds or more in the Army at paces that would kill these Gen-X ultralighters.

I hear a lot of people here saying things like “hike your own hike”, “find what works for you”, etc. but then you go on to explain why your way is the best way. I run into you folks in the woods and you shake your heads like I’m slow or something. Well, I’m not the one shivering through the night or getting hypothermic from an unexpected thunderstorm. I actually had one guy tell me I was drinking too much water! He said less water in the body made him lighter and therefor climbing hills was easier. Wouldn’t you know the SAR team found him wandering around two days later, completely delirious from dehydration?

No thanks. I’ll stick to my “old fashioned” ways.”

“I only hope that you're not too attached to your knees and that someday you learn moderation in all things.”

“Sounds good, MR. See ya on the trail!!!”

“I don't skimp on water.”

“I never carry over about 30 lbs (winter) and I'm always pulling something out of my pack to help some poor sucker who is totin' 50+ lbs. cause he/she didn't think about it, forgot it, or didn't bring enough of it.

Going light is not going without.”

“How many of us can say we were exposed to this trend when we started hiking, back when our first gear quiver was heavy and bulky? I certainly wasn't. It took hiking with Mr.nigal, seeing him carry the smallest pack I ever saw someone carry for a weekend trip, THEN take out 8-10 beers from it once we got to camp, and discussing "lightening up yer load" before I ever heard or considered the thought. And I've been scrutizizing my gear ever since.

I know I'll never reach the obesessive/compulsive low-weights some ultralighters have reached, especially now that I have gear that'll last practically forever, gear that I'd have to replace if I want to lower my base pack weight anymore. But I've since reconsidered taking all the gear I use to, and have reduced the weight on my back, and have found it's much easier to hike that way. And I certainly don't try to hike anymore than 10 miles a day unless I have to...I want to see the sights, take time to relax and all that. I ain't out to walk all day!”

“Backpacker magazine did a good article on this very topic. Check it out:http://www.backpacker.com/article/0,2646,2286,00.html”

“I certainly hear what you are saying, MR.. but I know for me, I can be QUITE comfortable with a 25-35lbs pack.. I can NOT imagine needing anything for even a 10 Day outing that would require the weights you refer to.

As long as you are happy, that's all that matters. Question tho -- being 'sincerely interested in understanding something' -- Has hearing all our comments regarding the subject make it better? or confuse you more?.. or solidify in your mind why you choose to carry what you bring?”

“D@$N, I'm hiking with Nigal!

But Buddur, did he share?.....not with the dog,...with you?”

“Backpacker mag had a great article a couple of years ago. The reporter took a trip with a tech head and an ultralighter. It was written to just present both hikers without judgement. It was also rather funny. This might be the same one netcelt was talking about.”

“At the parking lot, the quips begin when we unload Steve Fox's tiny pack, a 30-pound bundle (including climbing gear and cold-weather clothing) that feels no heavier than a peak bagger's daypack.

"What do you have in there?" asks Marc Dilley, the one among us who's spent the most time in this nook of the Cascades. What he really means is, "Just what have you forgotten?"

The next pack out of the trunk is Marc's, and it takes two of us to hoist the 65-pound monster. "Holy hernia!" Steve grunts. "You stuff your mother-in-law in here?"”

“This certainly isn't a "Gen-X" subject. When I went on my week-long (in September) Isle Royale trips in the early 80s (when I was around 30), my pack, including food, water, & a first-gen. Polarguard bag, was under 35 lbs. That was with a Eureka! Timberline 2 (more than 8 lbs w/vestibule), which was shared gear with my brother, whose pack weighed the same (and his was an early 70s external frame), and two Peak 1 stoves the first trip, since we had to boil all our water because of tapeworm cysts and I didn't get my First Need until the second trip (hmm, about the same size as the stove). We also wore New Balance's new concept (then) of super light trail boots mixing running and hiking features, and had no trouble on I.R.'s rocky, rooty trails with the load we were carrying. It rained, it got cold at times, but we seemed to have everything we needed to deal with it successfully.

And now I have dropped tent weight by half for our 2-person tent, and by 75% if I go solo, lighter stove, lighter rain gear, etc. So what the heck (besides water in the Badlands or desert) puts a pack over 60 lbs anyway? I'm not humping mortar rounds in Desert Storm like one of my former students had to...but that could be the answer to the bear issue, perhaps.”

“That's where I am coming from, Pekka. By no means do I do without on my trips.. and I can not imagine having a pack that weighed in at 65lbs..”

“I normally don't do this kind of post but.....

Who gives a crap how heavy your pack is? Am I supposed to be impressed?”

“heh.. bad boy.. stop that.”

“I've chastised by the Dawg?

Hand head vandal!”

“Maybe he thinks he's impressing the ladies?”

“Wow, I must've been hexed by TD. My syntax and spelling has gone to hell.”

“Most ultra lighters I have run into stay away from places that could be dangerous to them. Outside of recklessness, its a question of whether or not the increased burden that comes with adding on weight is justified by the benefits of the extras that you carry. In the summer on a long trail I am in the mid 20's without food and water and when i can afford it, if I could afford to replace some of my gear with lighter stuff, I'd probably be at about 20 pounds. I started heavy (55 pounds before food and water) and mostly worked my way down although there are a few times I gave up something and regretted it later (like an extra light weight layer of clothes for bed time and emergencies... like getting stuck in extremely cold weather in the mountains, such as the sleet and freezing rain that hit me in the AT in Maine).

I've got no complaint about the heavy weight packers. I have had to bail out a few overpacked people in my time, but I have also gratefully made use of things they carried and I neglected to. On the other hand, I have had to help out under-packed people (giving extra food, first aid stuff, iodine) - but can't remember benefitting from the fact that someone else was underpacked. Still, I've learned a lot from the ultr-lights and its partly because of them that I am careful to make sure I have reasons for all the weight I carry.”

“wait a minute!!.. MY syntax and spelling ??..

*stomps foot, and growls*”

“Golly I have learned my lesson! I will change my sinfull light weight habits. Can I be one of you heavy weighter's huffing, puffing and looking like you're walking coronaries as you labor up the hills at a snails pace now? I don't really like my knee joints anyways and find that the ulcer, that will burning through my guts from all the ibuprofen I'll have to be taking, will probably be stimulating...aaaah the smell of bloody sh!t in the morning, invigorating!”

“Mtn Rmr.

I never shiver through the night with my $150.00 15 deg. down bag. Nor have I gotten wet under my tarp. And my meals are done right with my pepsi can stove. I even listen to a little radio on my 2 oz reciever. I catch fish with my 1 lb. of fishing gear. And fry them with the little stove too.
All weighs in around 20 to 25 lb. Certainly not going without.

"Strong enough to carry 60 lbs, but smart enough to carry less than 10."

Guess I don't go that low, but I could if I got real diciplined.”

“Gear Slut
That was f*cking beautiful man.
Very well said.”

“I'm heading out tommorrow for the next 4 days to cover over 60 miles.
My pack will start out just a bit below 25 pounds (w/food & water). By the time I reach my truck the pack should weigh about 16 pounds.”

“"I can not imagine having a pack that weighed in at 65lbs.."

TownDawg
03:33:36 PM
01/23/02

I am still trying to figure out what I would HAVE to bring along with me to have my pack weigh in that much..

Canned foods?.. A slab of sirloin?.. Cast Iron Dutch Oven?.. DTV receiver, dish and portable TV?”

“That was great Gear Slut. I can even hear the Leave-It-To-Beaver whine in your voice.”

“Gear Slut is a guy, I am convinced now. *smirk*.. That is DEFINITELY a guy's rant.”

“"It seems to me that instead of obsessing with their pack weight, they’d be better off hitting the gym and adding a few pounds."

Seems like we could all learn something. Would you provide a gear list of what you typically bring along for us to review?”

“Gear Slut is the typical ultralight elitist. In my experience, people like that have very little real world experience and offer some of the most dangerous advice. They fall back on sarcasm and crudeness because they have little else to offer.

My knees are just fine and I don't take any kind of drugs for pain or anything else. I do hit the gym 3 or 4 times a week and include plenty of squats and leg presses in my routine. One pound of muscle in the leg equals ten on your back, in my reckoning. I’d be willing to bet that I can hike faster uphill with a full load than most ultralighters could with a day-pack.

I think pedxing pretty much summed it up when he said that most ultralighters avoid places that could be dangerous to them. For me, a lot of enjoyment can be found by challenging myself and gaining confidence by overcoming those challenges.”

“For me, a lot of enjoyment can be found by challenging myself and gaining confidence by overcoming those challenges."
Mountain Roamer
05:31:04 PM
01/23/02

That's part of the reason I do it after I have fullfilled my comfort needs.

MR - Who says I'm an ultralite eltitist? I'm somewhere in the middle. Perhaps you should stop judging others by what they carry, it's a very shallow personality trait. If you don't like the ultr-lite philosphy, don't follow it...just shut up and hike your own hike.”

“Gear Slut = a person who has much gear and can't help buying more.

Ultralight Elitest = minimalist

I think MR is a little peeved and he's in attack mode. He stoped making sence long ago.”

“LOL, you got that right!”

“Nature is chaotic. You may be able to get away with going out unprepared 10 or 20 times but eventually you’re going to get whacked. Climbing into a too light sleeping bag when you’re cold, wet and undernourished isn’t just uncomfortable – it’s downright dangerous. Real people with families have to come out to rescue you in bad weather – that’s selfish. Roy Jardine has brainwashed far too many people into thinking that the only way to enjoy the outdoors is by taking unnecessary risks. Don’t believe the hype!”

“Blowing out that knee on the trail, having a heart attack on the next hill, crushing a disk under your heavy loads, or twisting an ankle because of your lack of nimbleness, is selfish. Why should I stop and help you when you're carry such a self-indulgent piggish load?”

“So where do you go hiking that you see these sucked up, wussy, malnurished, homeless, gen X, homosexual, on paxcil, wet, crying, whining, leg humping, bleeding hearted, liberal, Ultralight Minimalist hikers? Just wondering?”

“Have you even looked at some of the light gear out there? What in particular is unsafe, I'm not understanding you. Who is Roy Jarding? Maybe someone trying to make Ray look bad.”

“OK MR, I think you're another TT'er. Which one?

BTW MR, will you carry my gas grill if we go hiking together?”

“MR
Go shoot some more steroids will ya.
I'm glad you can carry a sh!t load of stuff. Are you a WWF wrestler in your spare time too?
I bet it takes you a long time to pack in the morning huh?”

“Christ on crutches! There are so many generalizations and chest thumping about how great a hiker you are it seams clear that your only problem is that your fragile ego is threatened by anything that is different than “your way“. I guess the big question is why does it matter how others hike?”

“I'm glad I'm not that scared to go in the woods that I have to carry 60 pounds worth of stuff.
I bet you pack a teddy bear too don't you?”

“Hey, Don't push him too far He might be packing iron.”

“Cast iron because he sounds like a "real man".”

“This is just what the Wise use movement, off road vehicle lobby and land developers would love to see. Backpackers arguing over what should be in someone else's pack. Some people are happy with 50 pounds, others with 10. Who cares? It doesn't make either one better or right. Why do some people try to judge others on some ridiculous ultralight standard? You'd swear the Salem witch trials are back. Just do whatever makes your trip a pleasant experience and do your own thing.”

“I agree with you richb.
I was just picking on him cause he seems to have a problem with the light weight style.
I can carry a bunch of weight myself if I wanted but I don't need to.
Carry what ya want MR. Just don't bash my style.”

“Yep, I was also playing the devil's advocate because MR comes off as being such a know it all pr!ck.

Carry whatever pleases you.”

“I for one had nothing better to do. Classes don't start until 8am tomorrow for me and I'm low on cash so I'm hanging out on TT. MR's comments helped me waist away the day ;)”