Ultralight Backpacking???

“I’ve been lurking for a while and have a serious question. Please don’t accuse me of trolling (whatever that means) I am sincerely interested in understanding something.

Could someone please explain this whole ultralight backpacking craze? Maybe I just don’t “get it” but it seems to me that a lot of the advice from the ultralight crowd is misguided at best and potentially dangerous. Going out without proper shelter, sufficient clothing, too little food and no first aid equipment is a recipe for disaster. Telling people to drink untreated water is just plain stupid.

I routinely carry 50-60 pound packs and think it allows me to enjoy the backwoods more and ensures my safety. I sleep warm and dry, eat great food and am ready for any kind of weather. If I get stuck out there for a few extra days, it’s no big deal because I have plenty of everything. It may weigh a few ounces more, but my Gore-tex rain gear will stave off a hurricane – something you can’t say about an umbrella. Why eat food that wouldn’t satisfy Calista Flockhart just to save a few ounces on a real stove? Can you really expect to react to an emergency when you are malnourished?

Most of the ultralight whackos that I’ve run across are... how do I put this... kind of frail looking. It seems to me that instead of obsessing with their pack weight, they’d be better off hitting the gym and adding a few pounds. That way, they would be more able carry proper gear and wouldn’t be risking, not only their own lives, but those of the search and rescue people who are invariably called upon to bail out these people.

I think some of the appeal of ultralight may be that it is also ultra-cheap. Here I think these people would be better off car camping or backyard camping until they can save enough money for real gear. With the right gear, they wouldn’t have to high tail it when the weather turns nasty but could comfortably handle whatever nature has to offer.

Keeping some of these ill-equipped people out of the backcountry would enable those who can actually afford to undertake this activity to enjoy less crowded conditions and have less rules and restrictions. Would it be undesirable to station rangers at trailheads to inspect people’s packs and deny access to those lacking proper gear?”

“Those Ultra-Lighters are just a buncha Fascists.”

“I don't know, you'll have to ask that frail dude, uh, what's his name?........Nigal?”

“Well, come on you flamers!”

“Mountain Roamer: There are several good websites on this obviously.. but I wanted to say that your comments in a lot of ways ring true with me also..

"Telling people to drink untreated water is just plain stupid" -- I have never seen this.. really?.. not me!..

"I sleep warm and dry, eat great food and am ready for any kind of weather. If I get stuck out there for a few extra days, it’s no big deal because I have plenty of everything." YES!!.. me exactly.. but I gotta tell ya, the times I have went 'light', it was great being able to cover a lot of terrain and enjoy it without being such a chore.

"Most of the ultralight whackos that I’ve run across are... how do I put this... kind of frail looking.": bad.. bad boy.. and those panty hose nylon pants?.. (lol.. the first time my daughter saw me in a pair of capilenes and shorts she really freaked.. it was NOT her type of fashion statement.)

"I think some of the appeal of ultralight may be that it is also ultra-cheap.": Maybe.. but I don't see it that way.. my guess is the answer is two-fold.. the additional challenge, and the chance to do 30-50 miles a day.

"Would it be undesirable to station rangers at trailheads to inspect people’s packs and deny access to those lacking proper gear?": Dang.. there go the 'day-hiker, LL Bean crowd! *smirk*

Seriously.. GREAT opening for a really good thread. I am sure you will get lots of comments.

:) :) :)”

“I saw this shirt once that read "Strong Enough to Carry 60 pounds BUT!!! Smart Enough to Carry Less Than 10!!!"

If ya like your heavy load, well by all means you can have it! Paradigm shifts aren't for everyone.”

“Water untreated only at springs.
Food is usually left out of pack weight.
Tarp Shelters work fine...If there is a hurricane coming to the sierras, let me know.
Lightweight Clothing might smell after a few days but it works.
Must I even start about the Pepsi sTove”

“Springs can be contaminated by E. coli and other enterics. I would treat that water, too.”

“It is never safe to drink untreated water... even at springs.. due to the possibility of animals and humans tracking germs into the supply.”

“Our filter broke last June in the middle of an 8 day PCT hike. We had iodine, but not enough for the entire trip. We only used untreated spring water a few times and at the most unquestionable sources. Sure beat all the pumping. I'm sold on the iodine tablets and neutralizer, I'm never buying anouther filter, toooooooo much work.”

“It usually comes from the surrounding soil. It doesn't have to be tracked in.”

“If you saw the places we were getting our water, I don't think you would have been very worried.”

“Oh yes I would. I used to test springs and other drinking water sources for microbes for a living. I've seen what should have been the cleanest sources grow lawns of bacteria. I know where it comes from and I know what it can do. I always treat my water, no matter where it came from.”

“Understand, animals crap everywhere and bacteria can be transported on dust.”

“Ok ok!!!! but to my defence, we all ended up just fine.”

“Everyone has different comfort levels. It's all about balance, comfort on the trail vs comfort at camp.

Personally I don't need to take a lot of junk in the summer. I refuse to take anything that I probably wont use, no extras.”

“Since you seem to know a lot about water safety. I'm planning to stick to iodine tabs and neutralizer for my purification needs. Do I have anything to worry about?”

“Believe me, I'm glad. My Micro prof had a really funny story about someone he went hiking with once who did the same thing in the Sierras and wasn't so lucky. Well....I'm sure it wasn't too funny at the time for him. Heeheehee...ever try hiking while squirting out both ends?”

“I'm going to try out those Pristine drops.”

“Mainly Cryptosporidium but there's a tiny outside chance that Giardia can get past it. It's way effective on bacteria, though. BTW, it turned out to be Giardia that got the prof's friend. Best guess is that a beaver (they carry Giardia) took a drink and left a present at the spring at one time or another. It can carry over in cyst form for a very long time.”

“Mountain Roamer....

Would it supprize you that Rangers approve of ultralight gear? Maybe they should weigh packs at trail heads. Anything too heavy and considered dangerous to the hikers health should stay off the trail. This extra weight might also prove to erode trails.



:) just thought I might flip the perspective”

“If you will ask most ultralight backpackers (myself included) survival items such as food, water, first aid and clothing are never skimped on. If you skimp on those things you are a nut and just asking for a disaster. I don't recommend drinking from springs or any other water source unless it has been filtered or treated and boiled. (cists can survive chemical treating). Where ultralight backpackers save their weight is in the choices of clothing and footware, backpack, tent, sleeping system and other smaller items such as water bottles, pots, flashlight etc. Everything that a good ultralight backpacker carries is comparable to what a heavyweight backpacker carries in terms of performance. It usually just weighs less and there is less of it. I have never found myself to be wanting for anything and have been perfectly comfortable in freezing conditions.”

“Very interesting point you bring up, MR. I think that there could be a bit of bragging rights that go along with going ultra light. From my point of view, the ultra light "mode" made take a serious look at what I carried. One I first started bping, my pack was way too heavy (65 lbs). For me, it didn't make the hikes as enjoyable as they could have been had I carried then what I carry now (32.5 lbs with 5 qts. water and almost three full days food). There is room for lighting it up a little.

I also see it as "Everyone hikes there own hike. What might work for me, might not work for you"....”

“Hey Mountain Roamer, are you absolutely sure that you are not a troll? How about a torll?

I can't carry 50-60 lbs, and have no interest in doing so.

I'm pretty sure that I can't get my packweight down to 10 lbs. But there is a big realm in between.

A lot of lightweight items cost twice what the ordinary but similarly used gear will cost, not less. Some lightweight items are things that you can make yourself, which in itself, appeals to a lot of us. But not all of us. I think a lot of people go lightweight on some things, and then carry a heavy luxury that they really enjoy. Backpacking is not a team sport, but a individually enjoyed activity.

Just hike your own hike, and forget about trying to make everyone else do things your way.”

“Hikers should be banned from all trails. Their boots tear up the trails and cause increased erosion. For that matter, trails are scars accross the landscape that cause increased erosion. I say, ban all trails!”

“I used to feel as you do, MR. But the rationality of carrying less weight has won me over. Nigal would be proud, and his information has helped me greatly over the years.

I am not a lightweight "communist". There are some items that I will carry, on certain trips, that add weight that a true ultralite disciple would reject. But I am constantly trying to improve my backpacking experiences. On my next three day hike, I plan to use my 2500ci pack, Princton Tech Photon flashlite, frogg toggs rain gear, and ultralite 3/4 thermarest. I already have a Walrus MicroSwift tent and Sil Tarp. I plan on buying the large Sil Tarp and a bug bivy, eliminating my need for a tent altogether on some trips. I will be hiking in running shoes. The hike is in Florida, on relatively flat and smooth terrain.

I am really looking forward to the experience after years of carrying heavy packs.”

“I read that Ray Jardine recently had some of his nonvital organs removed along with a reduction of his bone mass to increase his overall daily hiking mileage. Apparently Mr. Jardine reduced his pack weight to the lightest achieved and is now focusing on the internal body and how to efficiently maximize trail performance. His next visit to the surgeon will consist of the doctor sewing a large skin pouch on Ray's abdomen, much like a kangaroo. "This pouch will store all of my gear", reports Jardine.”

“Well, Mountain Roamer, there are a lot of ways to go much lighter without compromising safety and comfort. And much of it can have a price tag -- though most TTers are diligent sale shoppers or creative constructors. Most seem to agree with the motto "hike your own hike," which implies there will be a variety of approaches to how much/what to carry on the trail.

A proper tarp, bivy or solo shelter protects but is lighter than the traditional 2-man all purpose tent.

Treatment tablets are much lighter than a filter.

A top-notch down sleeping bag is lighter than synthetic, but certainly isn't going the cheap route.

Some stoves are getting extremely small and light (not even counting esbits and Pepsi-can versions) without compromising food prep (what we all like to eat on the trail is a preference matter, not a safety issue in my mind -- even emergency rations can be very concentrated and light).

A Petzl Tikka (3oz) headlamp beats the pants off a regular flashlight in most situations -- and it isn't cheaper, either.

These are just some examples. Any ultralight manifesto needs to be based on careful reasoning, skill development, and implementation. A hiker traveling light and fast may have a much better chance of getting out of a bad weather situation, while a heavier packer may have a better chance of sitting out the weather.

Personally, my aging feet, knees and shoulders appreciate every change I make in my gear (and diet) selection that reduces weight.”

“Oh bother!! 'tis a troll or a dingbat.”

“How many miles do can you carry 60 lbs before your DONE!! Even before I cut pack weight I carried no more than 45 to 50. I couldn't imagine....well I guess if you brought along 2 pairs of jeans
The DUTCH OVEN
Double Barrel Shotgun for "REsponsable Security Reasons"”

“ROTFLMMFAO @ Violin!!!”

“I tend to agree with Mountain Roamer. The ultra-lights are better in theory than practice. I can walk 10 miles with a daypack or I can walk 10 miles with 40 pounds. It takes me nearly the same amount of time either way. I am sore and have odd pains after walking this far whether I have 40 or 10 pounds.

A sixty pound pack is more than I care to hoist and I have done it enough to know that lighter is better, but I will not substitute certain creature comforts. Boots for one! I hear a lot of internet hikers talk about hiking barefoot or in sandles. For some reason they don't like boots. I like boots. They are comfortable, protective, and very functional.

I have seen one person who may have been an ultra-light hiker in the woods. He looked like he was trying to escape from a crime scene, but everyone else has a substantial pack. I recall raking Nigal over the coals for suggesting that a Wal-mart sack would suffice for a water bottle. Those ultra-lighters are a goofy bunch.”

““Going out without proper shelter, sufficient clothing, too little food and no first aid equipment is a recipe for disaster.”

Who the hell does this? If you do this, you need to stay home. Sumb!tch dude, ya make it sound like you come across some anemic, cold, hurt ultra lighter around every bend ya turn. I always hear how “unsafe” ultra lighters are but I never hear of harrowing rescues taking place because some ultra lighter used a tarp in stead of a tent, or because he didn’t bring enough food. Come on now! 8)

If your system works for you, good. What’s the beef with other’s systems? I have NEVER met an ultra lighter like you have mentioned, on the trail or the net. Going light is a fluid thing and you have to flow with the conditions you’ll be in. Lightweight in Tennessee is not the same as lightweight in Washington.

There are different degrees of hiking. There’s the “kitchen sink” hiker such as yourself, lightweight hikers who replace every piece of gear with a lighter version, then ultra lighters who start leaving stuff at home and learn to replace the gear with knowledge. If I know how to accomplish a task without having to depend on the gear, I don’t need the piece of gear to begin with. Ya take the weight off yer back and put it in yer head.

It’s all about providing the base things of life on the trail, warmth, shelter, food. If you have to have 60 pounds of stuff to do it, good. Take every single thing ya need to survive. If you can do it with a pen knife and a trash bag, fine. Have at it. There is more to being rewarded in the woods than being comfortable. Attitudes like yours are a product of an over insulated and over protected society.

When you see someone who doesn’t fit the mold, just remember, there is no mold.”

“But what about my AK47.. you mean I can't bring my AK47. Gal Dam what the he11 ya gonna do when ya run into one dem bars. Ya kalista flakherts. Yall gonna get yer sef kilt. Dats why ya neeed da AK47. A little securty in an in secur world.”

“Mt Roamer I am with you man! A person should use "real gear" or they probably aren't prepared. But to each his own. We are not responsible for all the sillies out there.”

“"I recall raking Nigal over the coals for suggesting that a Wal-mart sack would suffice for a water bottle."

Not a BOTTLE dude, a water bucket for around camp. It works too.”

“Nigal, do you carry a Bear Canister? I hear a lot of people shaveing pounds than throwing a 2lbs bear canister into the mix. What do you think?”

“fun fun fun.. I knew you were going to get a lot of responses.. :)

here's some stuff on ’clorine’ drops..”

“there's mold on my bread if I havent eaten it within 4 days”

“"Not a BOTTLE dude, a water bucket for around camp. It works too."

Yeah, it works like a garden sprinkler.

Gufffahhhhh!!!”

“By the way.. I have never had to haul along 60 lbs.. my pack runs 25lbs about.. just curious.. how hard to put together a list of what you haul with ya?..”

“Bear can? No, not too many bears around Ohio. LOL! I don't like a lot of Ray Jay's ideas but I do agree with him that if you don't camp in designated sites your chances of being raided go way down. Will I use my food as a pillow like he does? Never. I'm no authority as I don't hike in bear country much.”

“dang it.. we have been posting for an hour and a half.. and MR has not posted again.. :).. torll?”

“Didn't hear that the new rule in the National Forests this year is that everyone hiking in the National Forests must use bear cannisters? What will the ultra lighters do ???”

“Now now Towndawg!! The last time I hiked with ya you had at least that much weight in shrimp!!LOL”

“I still hang my food. Seems like that method is loosing popularity though. Works fine for me.”

“Canisters aren't manditory in 99% of the wilderness areas.”

“still hang mine also.. works fine.. and I even use a Wal-Mart sometimes to hang it with.. *smirk*.. never tried the water bucket idea tho..”

“Hmmmmm.....I live smack in the middle of a National Forest and I haven't heard anything about that. They have announced that bear precautions are highly recommended, however.”

“heh.. naw.. only 2-3 lbs of shrimp..

:)..

was good tho.. wasn't it?”