NowSlimmer?

“Prowler, HumanPackMule and I are thinking about doing all five approach trails to LeConte over Memorial Day weekend.. what is your suggestion for the order and direction.. I am going to research it tonight.. but I count on your experience.. I know you will have valuable input.”

“well I studied.. and I have to admit.. I am not thrilled.. but here is what I see.

Bullhead, Rainbow Falls and Trillium all basically start at the end of Crab Orchard Road.. (which is Airport Road extended, basically) close enough that we can shuttle cars there easy.

Alum Gap is up the 441 toward Newfound Gap, and we can only get to the Boulevard by hiking from Newfound Gap.. so the shuttle between those two would be easy.

The problem is that we have 5 trails.. and we need six or four.. we need one more trail.. I am considering since we all want to go see Charlie's Bunion again, that we include that trip as part of the Boulevard, and maybe even make an overnight on THAT one day by dropping into IceWater Spring or Kephart.”

“The good news is that if we do the 'triplet trails' in the mornings.. we will enjoy the waterfalls, and caves more.. then trying to HURRY up and get off the morning before it gets dark.

So my proposal is that we start each morning on one of the triplets.. and come down off the mountain one day using Alum gap.. one day using the boulevard.. and one day.. we turn left and go up to Charlie's Bunion.. and either of those three days.. that we WEAR out.. we can always crash at IceWater.. and run down the mountain again.. so we will need to figure out a way to get cars down the mountain each afternoon.. and have one delivered each morning back up.”

“NOTE: A little bit of wordsmithing.. change the second use of the word 'morning' to use the word MOUNTAIN instead.”

“"The problem is that we have 5 trails.. and we need six or four.. we need one more trail."

If I understand your dilemma, you're proposing to hike to Mt. Le conte using totally different trails for each approach and departure. With only five trails, you will end on Mt. Le Conte, if your first hike is an approach up Mt. Le Conte. Your only problem is find a way to get to or return from the top of Mt Le Conte without using one of the five trails, assuming that you only want to travel each trail once. Perhaps you can charter a helicopter to drop you off or pick you up at the top. Or you could bushwack your way either to or from the top, avoiding the five trails on your way. Or, perhaps, you could hire the lodge to transport you in one direction on the llamas used to transport food. Since they primarily carry food to the top, there would probably be space enough for the five of you on a trip down the mountain. This would not constitute a hike on the trail, since you would be transported on the llamas. (But I doubt that they will do this.)

"Prowler, HumanPackMule and I are thinking about doing all five approach trails to LeConte over Memorial Day weekend.. what is your suggestion for the order and direction."


For the Mt. Le Conte trip, I do not consider a trail as hiked unless it has been hiked in each direction (at some time or other). You see, the trails take on different characters and display different views, depending upon your direction of travel. Even more distinctions can occur with the seasonal changes. And further complexities can be introduced by the different weather systems that occur. But I consider a trail as hiked if a passage has been made in each direction. The other distinctions are just a matter of choice for personal satisfaction.

"So my proposal is that we start each morning on one of the triplets.. and come down off the mountain one day using Alum gap.. one day using the boulevard.. and one day.. we turn left and go up to Charlie's Bunion.. and either of those three days.. that we WEAR out.. we can always crash at IceWater.. and run down the mountain again.. "

Now here it appears that you have defined your own solution to the problem, and it is a good one. As long as you travel each trail at least once, an additional trip on a trail should not nullify the first trip. You can not return and delete what has already been accomplished historically.

But this trip that you are proposing goes against the grain with me. My objective in going up Mt. Le Conte is to spend the night there. You are proposing to hike up there three times without spending even one night there. Also, since you are proposing to return to the cars on at least one of the days, you will not need full gear, and you will not even be backpacking!

"and either of those three days.. that we WEAR out.. we can always crash at IceWater.. and run down the mountain again."


But confusion occurs as to how you will crash at IceWater if you are returning down the Alum Cave Trail.

Now this implies that you will carry full gear on the days that you return on the Boulevard Trail. So, maybe, you'll be carrying full gear on at least two days, if not three. So now I must confess that either I am confused or I must conclude that your proposal hinges on the edge of lunacy.

"so we will need to figure out a way to get cars down the mountain each afternoon.. and have one delivered each morning back up"

Answer: Do the necessary shuttle driving of the vehicles.

From what you have described, with the possibilities of crashing at Icewater:

Day 1 - Shuttle one car to Alum Cave Trail and one to Newfound Gap and return in a remaining car to your selected trailhead.
.
Days 2 and 3 - Shuttle one car to Newfound Gap and return in a remaining car to your selected trailhead.

I now wish that I had ignored this one.”

“Heh... I knew your answers would be insightful.. and I thank you, VERY much.

1) The 'both ways' aspect never bothered me, but I respect your answer, and agree. (I just don't have anough days in my life to try to do every trail I want to do both directions and several seasons.)

2) As for my lunacy? You may have spotted something there. *smirk*.. Truthfully? I posted that response, and was thinking of only the day (possibly twice) that we use the Boulevard. You are right, the day I go down Alum there is no rest for the weary.

3) The reason I didn't suggest an overnight at LeConte is due to time available (#1) and no chance of getting to enjoy a night (#2) at the LODGE. The shelter (to me) is nothing special.

4) I had even considered a totally DIFFERENT trip by making it all my favorite campsites/shelters! -- but the idea of busting all five approach trails in a weekend appeals to me. Obviously, we would go light, since we are talking about 40 miles or so (just round number) in 48-72 hrs.

NowSlimmer? Again, I thank you, VERY much! A wonderful response.”

“Here was the mistake: "and either of those three days.. that we WEAR out.. we can always crash at IceWater.. "

three should have read TWO.”

“Oh! -- and I almost forgot.. part of this equation.. and why the lack of overnight/backpack in the itinerary --

Prowler had mentioned bring along his wife.. and who knows, maybe I can talk mine into going. So the girls could go shop all day in G'burg and Pigeon Forge etc.. etc.. and the boys could go be mountain men!.. *smirk*.. and we could enjoy restaurant food in the evenings, or even car-camp. (I know my wife tho -- HOTEL at night.)

It opens up the options, and it IS Memorial Day weekend. So another piece of the equation.”

“By the way -- if you were to pick your top FIVE (or three) campsite/shelter etc areas.. which would be on your list?

As you know, my other option for the trip is to just string together an itinerary of my favorite places in GSMNP.”

“For that matter? What we OUGHT to do, (and score big points with the wives) and just rent us out a CHALET with a view and hot tub.. and we can all meet up each night.. cook in if we want to.. or go out.. but the girls can spend their day doing what THEY want to do, and the guys can spend the day doing what WE want to do.”

“Icewater Springs is extremely likely to be full during that weekend, it being a holiday weekend plus some of the thru hikers will still be populating the shelters. So there is a small problem of arranging reservations for the possibility of a "crash." Without gear for an overnight, it could be a rough night, especially if the weather turns against you.

If you can pull this one off, you may get your names in the paper and copies posted on the bulletin board at the lodge. The most recent posting that I recall was some young guy going up and down the Alum Cave Trail three or five times in one day, with trips into Gatlinbury where he purchased some beer each trip. He did it on an off-day while working at the lodge.

I would like a picture of the three of you riding llamas down the trail.”

“Good thinking. Wifes are important. Treating them with consideration during the weekend is a wonderful idaa.”

“I actually like the idea of running DOWN the triplets.. I think the overall hikes would be FAR easier.. and perhaps even more enjoyable -- IF we hit the Newfound and Alum parking lots really early.. so we got to LeConte each day to enjoy our lunch there.

But it has implications of course. Not much in the way of shelter/campsite if we go that route.”

“"... your top FIVE (or three) campsite/shelter etc areas.. "

TownDawg
07:43:39 AM
01/27/02

Any thoughts?”

“Deer Creek Gap. I was wrong. I double checked it. You were RIGHT.

:)”

“"Wifes are important."

nowslimmer
07:56:50 AM
01/27/02

Happy Wife, Happy Life.”

“" ... some young guy going up and down the Alum Cave Trail three or five times in one day, with trips into Gatlinburg where he purchased some beer each trip... "

nowslimmer
07:50:11 AM
01/27/02

That one is famous, Paul. Average round trip time, INCLUDING the trip into G'burg -- (I think!) was less than three hours. (2 1/2 maybe?) Wow.. impressive stats even WalkinDude would be impressed with.”

“It's a pain to reserve campsites/shelters in a GSMNP system that does not work in an optimal condition, because (as you know) it is a part paper, part electronic system.

>>> but I do enjoy the area.. but I must be a masochist to do it over Memorial Weekend.

(that's why BP trips are better in GSMNP than day hikes -- cos you can get (far enough away that you are) two DAYS from ANY point of entry.)”

“"By the way -- if you were to pick your top FIVE (or three) campsite/shelter etc areas.. which would be on your list?"
TownDawg

On my knees, every site looks great to me when I arrive! But I'll think about this while working today. Strong contenders are 3, 13, 38, 49, 60, 64, Laurel Gap and Tricorner.”

“I don't know the campsite numbers.. but I know the shelters of course. TriCorner is one of my favs also. Laurel is sooOOo pretty... but I hate the walk to water.

I will look at them on the map after church today.”

“the vehicle situation is taken care of! My wife and mother n law are going to be camping at Elkmont campground in GSMNP so with some keys or just a ride they could be our drop off and pick up if needed!”

“and NO my wifes not to much of a shopper more of an outdoorsy girl as well!”

“I'm still tentative but do want to go so until I say otherwise count me in. My wife is a hiker so she is very cool with me hiking almost anytime. Better get in what I can now before the baby comes.

I like 13, 49, 71, Silers Bald and Laurel Gap.

C'mon TD, after packing in to Laurel, getting water is cake! Ok, fine, I'll fetch the water. Cool?

My picture in the paper? No thanks, I earned all my badges while I was a scout. I don't need recognition anymore.

As for a possible need for shelter I just was digging around in my shed and found a bolt-end of tyvek that I'm making a tarp out of. The dang thing is huge and light. We could fit all three of us under it and still cook. Just an option.

I think Nowslimmer is the resident Smokies Guru. You da man!”

“Finally got my puter back today.. so I will be responding to this thread prolly tomorrow..

(changed me over to NT so I can start running DreamWeaver)”

“"... your top FIVE (or three) campsite/shelter etc areas.. "
TownDawg

I'm still thinking! Can't help but keep changing my selections.

humanpackmule - Yes, your chice of CS #71 is a good one. It has lots of space and that large fireplace and chimney. There is another tall chimney off the Baxter Creek trail out of Big Creek, too. Shortly after the trailhead, the trail turns left away from Big Creek and starts up its long climb. Just to the right are side trails that lead to some old homestead sites and the chimney.”

“NS, ever been to Bone Valley? I've always wanted to hit that trail. Looks like I will this March though.”

“So what is the plan guys?.. Do we want to put together a LeConte Extravaganza?.. or do we want to put together a My Favorites Places trip?”

“On the subject of wives.. I was just thinking we could all go in together on some huge chalet.. hike during the day.. party in G'burg at night.”

“I like the idea of a Fav places trip. I'll talk to my wife though.”

“NS, ever been to Bone Valley? I've always wanted to hit that trail. Looks like I will this March though."
humanpackmule
12:55:18 PM
01/28/0

No. But it sounds like a great place to visit.

I've been as far as CS #75 on Bear Creek Trail. From there I have not hiked the whole section north and west under the AT. And I still need to complete from Spence Field to Derrick Knob on the AT. (I've stayed at 70 of the 100 shelters and backcountry campsites.)

I was headed to a base at CS #75 for a day hike to High Rocks. But a mile up from the closed CS #73 at the Forney Creek Tr. I saw an unofficial camping site that was too pretty to pass. So I lost the day for my day hike.

At CS #75 I cooked for a Park Ranger and his newphew. He had another gas stove that did not work that day. I had my Sierra Zip wood burning stove. I bought it after seeing so many problems with all the other stoves along the AT in the park. I have had to cook for other Park/trail people, too. But the electrical connection for the fan has been giving me problems on the Zip now, so I've taken to cooking on the campfire. It's faster than any stove, once the fire is there. (Rain, no campfire, etc., I eat dry food and maybe canned tuna, chicken or ham.)

In order for me to get to Bone Valley, I would have to complete at least 4 to 6 weeks of preliminary bp-ing for conditioning and/or camp along the trails. Either the trails between campsites are too long or too difficult or both for me until I can get into prime shape.

I wish you a good trip there and please take some pictures to show me. I would like to see the place.

Paul”

“NowSlimmer?
"By the way -- if you were to pick your top FIVE (or three) campsite/shelter etc areas.. which would be on your list?

As you know, my other option for the trip is to just string together an itinerary of my favorite places in GSMNP."
TownDawg
07:43:39 AM
01/27/02
--------------------------------------------------
Strong contenders are 3, 13, 38, 49, 60, 64, Laurel Gap and Tricorner.
--------------------------------------------------
Here are my selections:

In numerical order, campsites number: 1, 38, 49, 60.

In alphabetical order: Icewater Spring Shelter, Tricorner Knob Shelter

In early August: Spence Field, for the pin cherries before the bears consume them all.
--------------------------------------------------
#1, Cooper Road CS - spacious, good fire rings, good tent and hammock sites, easily available firewood, easy to reach quickly, day or night, only 0.9 miles from the trailhead, a good starting place from where you can return to the car to get anything that was overlooked, usually unpopulated since people want to hike in deeper, safe parking.

#38, Mount Sterling CS - spacious, privacy, great views from the firetower, wildlife - you should at least see rabbits, a prize destination as the highest backcountry CS in the Park, a challenge to reach as one or more strenous trails must be hiked, can be reached from many locations - Balsum Rd., Big Creek, Cataloochee, Cosby, Newfound Gap, etc. I always reserve three nights there to help assure that I get some good views.

#49, Cabin Flats CS - spacious, great views on the approach trail, carrys one back to the early settler days and to the logging days when thay damed the creeks until they were ready to float the logs out. Far enough in on a dead end trail that you might be there alone.

#60, Bumgardner Branch CS - spacious, beautiful setting, good fire rings, some good tent sites, easily available firewood if you know where, somewhat easy to reach - steady upgrade until you climb one hill and then you're there, day or evening, only 2.9 miles from the trailhead, a good starting place from where you can return to the car to get anything that was overlooked, in summer tubing brings lots of girls in swimming suits along the first part of the trail, safe parking.

Icewater Spring Shelter - spacious, sky light, good cooking/eating area, bench for sitting or reaching the upper platform, relatively easy to reach, good water supply, good views - can see Bryson City lights, because of the enlarged floor space, I tell people that dances are held there on Sat. nights., on the AT.

Tricorner Knob Shelter - a good setting, good water (if you go to the spring drain pipe up the hill. Horses have been taken on the hill between the pipe and the three drain areas in front of the shelter.), a challenge to reach, good times - I have met more interesting people here than at any other place in park. And I have had the shelter to myself for more nights than any other shelter in the park.

I reserve the right to change my selctions at any time.

Paul”

“

"I reserve the right to change my selctions at any time."
Paul

I changed my mind after my first backpacking trip on Hazel Creek. My selection of the Top Five Tent Sites are all close together on one trail, Hazel Creek. In order they are:

86 - Spacious, yet some parts ae relatively private, a historic area, a real good Spring just below the campsite from which I drink the water,(Walk the S-curve below the campsite area and take the short, spur trail downhill towards the closeby creek. There one can see the Spring Water to your left coming out of a pipe from deep under the road, good fishing, Interesting buildings across the creek, firewood available up-trail along the Lakeshore Trail (Do not cross the Creek.), etc.

84 - Spacious, tables, large, multi-level campsite, good fishing, not too private, but lots of good people gather there, some from very far away (They bring lots of things with them on 2-wheel hand carts.), Spring Water available about two blocks downstream on the left side of the trail(road), firewood near trails including a spur trail to the West near the main creek just before the longer bridge, a good day hike up nearby Bone Valley.

82 - Just because it's there. It is not as big as the other four, but not many people seem to go there. Comfortable, good fishing, firewood, quiet, a real, backcountry campsite, etc.

83 - Second largest of the five campsites, includes a separate area for the horsemen, good fishing, running water(two creeks), firewood, level campsites, beautiful views, etc. A Spring may be flowing uptrail and closer to 84 and appearing on your right. If there is water in the ditch, look for the source of it.

85 - A long site along the creek, beautiful views, firewood, several Spring seeps 3-4 feet above ground from a hillside on the left uptrail a little like 1-2 blocks, good fishing, somewhat private unless a lot of people are there, great views of the creek, a good, privy area just a little downstream following paths into the woods, etc.”

“Thanks, your hikes to Hazel in the past were good info for my trip there last fall. I plan on going back again asap.”

“Glad to hear you had a nice time, karo. Have fun again.

Say, did you hike in or use a boat shuttle?
last edited: 2/10/08 1:24:06 PM”