GW's Speach

“Thanks Violin, you are Mr Reality.

You are a real refreshment after hearing from a biased jack-ass like myself.”

“Hey guys every heard of Global Crossings and how someone could turn $100,000 into $18 million? Ever thought how 7 out of 10 of the wealthiest congressmen are democrats. Or even the fact that for every republican connected to Enron there is a democrat in the shadows who has the same affiliations. Hey realize that this is not a republican or democrat thing (I think I have said that before). It’s an issue involving dishonest fat cats. Many of which are in Washington. The issue essentially involves corporate America becoming more accountable. This will occur by some legislation but mostly from investors becoming more aware.
After saying this do not assume I have a problem with those who are wealthy. There is a growing trend in this country to hate the wealthy. Heck, they pay for this country to operate and our economy is based on their business not my measly pocket change. Who knows, maybe one day I will be one of the wealthy.
Finally, I don't think most people understand the idea of surplus. A surplus is what is left over after all has been paid. Fact is no administration has ever paid more on any debt than they had originally planed to pay even if they had more money. The most current figures show that in two years with our current tax plan we are looking at a trillion dollar surplus. You want to talk about consers with their hands in your pocket. We all know that they have and had the ability to create some pretty stupid places to sink your money. So why shouldn't the your money stay with its rightful owner? If your not in favor of the tax cut there is a blank for you to give more. Fact is our spending helps the economy. After Enron and Global Crossings, I doubt our economy was as strong as the media said it was 5 years ago.”

“I like to think of myself a pragmatic independent. I think Bush is doing a fine job with "The War", I don't think it is rocket science though. He did pass tax cuts didn't seem to do too much, I did get to blow the check on new gear, that was an extra xmas for me, Thank you very much. This stuff always ends up as us vs. you... smart vs. dumb... right vs. left.... now the Pres want's to go back to an unbalanced budget, a few weeks ago he said he wasn't gonna fire a million dollar missle at a ten dollar tent to shoot a camel in the butt, now he's submitting the largest military raise to do just that, I think he's doing that because it's popular... we've routed the terrorists with what we have, I do think there needs to be more military spending... we gotta keep the pissed off dogmatics from blowing up our stuff. The Republicans were screaming balanced budget amendment, but now they sound like spend spend spend, surpluses are BAD! Having a surplus allows you some freedom. Stop fighting everything because it's party rhetoric, question everything, build your own opinion”

“If Tom or anyone else ever calls me Mr. Reality again...

I'M LEAVING TT!”

“Don't let the door hit you in the...

Time for the fiddle to play his swan song.”

“Good stuff, trailhound and donman. That's a dose of reality.

Hypocrisy bothers me too, Tom. That's why I loved your post about the Bush folks being poll watchers. Clinton's entire administration was based on watching the polls and blowing with the wind. I think he did a pretty decent job too, for a convicted perjurer.”

“Just remember this "Budget Surplus"(if there is one) belongs to the TAXPAYERS who put it there to begin with. Most people's terrible situations in life are because of the bad choices they made, so why should people who make good choices and sacrifice their time to get good educations, and work their butts off to be high acheivers have to pay for the ones who don't. So I think the Federal Government needs to take that surplus and give it back where it comes from.”

“T57
Please,dont try to deflect blame just because its sitting on the person you support.A crook is a crook is a crook.Campaign donations is a small part of this.But it blows up in bushes face when it is revealed how much INFLUENCE lay got in exchange.Why do you think Bush and Cheney refuse to reveal info on the meetings they had with Lay last year?National security-hah.Cheney has said it would make companies less likely to offer their advice-what bull,what arrogance,what a pathetic answer....clinton has nothing on these guys.Anyway,the GAO is suing the white house for that info now-the first time thats ever happened!Hello smokin gun.
Yes both dems/repub got money but
Republicans received 73% of enrons cash vs27 for dems.
Bush showed horrible judgement/corruption in selecting people for his govt.
The MOST blatant example of corruption is HAVING AN ACTIVE CEO OF AN ENERGY CORP. SETTING THE ENERGY POLICY OF OUR COUNTRY.There is no clearer example of conflict of interest than this.”

“that is how our Government is supposed to work, even our Pres thinks he's not one of us anymore. Great White, our country is what it is because of sacrifice, I would rather have a surplus and a good budget that prepares us for future hardships than having to raise taxes when something unexpected happens. The tax issue is another tool to polarize the population”

“I see what you are saying donman, but our country is also based on freedom, and with freedom comes personal responsibility. What I'm getting at is that every government program that we implement that takes more money from tax payers to support, takes more freedom from the individual, therefore making the populace more dependent on the government for their well being. I think taxes are necessary for some things, but I think the budget needs to be on a $0 base line at the beginning of every year instead of automatically increasing 4%. Some people say we have a debt to society, well I think that people have the responsibility to make good choices in their lives as well. We have too many people in this country with their hands waiting for someone to fill it with someone elses cash.”

“I am still trying to make the connection, between Enron's collapse and the corrupt support from the Bush Administration. I mean isn't the idea of getting corrupt government support supposed to benefit the company?

I bet the line for Companies looking for corrupt Government support is kinda short these days.”

“Deflect blame? Take your own advice. I never mentioned the ties clinton had with Global Crossings, because he's history. I agree a crook is a crook. But to scream political scandal is stupid. Its the free market that is under attack here. Not a political party. I guess you were yelling political scandal with the same passion during White Water, Lewinsky, Chinagate, Campaign Finance Reform Fraud, and even Buddy's death.”

“Ok, supposed to benefit the company?
It benefitted the executives who it seems hollowed out the company through systematic selling off and hiding of debt.

Enron's cash was looted and stashed with a little help from DE-REGULATION.
I'm sure both parties had a hand in that, but mostly Republicans.

There has been talk in the news about openning records of "offshore" banks to figure out where the money went.

If the money has been taken out of the country, what to do?”

“Good point bacpac...

Assuming the Bush Administration knew Enron was in trouble...

1) If they had done something to save the company (and the employees) they would have looked very corrupt.

2) If they let the company stand or fall on its own, they get blamed for doing nothing and letting all those people get hurt.

Davex, the most knowledgable people on any subject are typically involved full-time in some aspect of that subject...I have no problem with business-people being used as advisors.”

“The truth is out there.....”

“donman, from a common perspective you are correct, but if you look farther into the future, the increased military spending makes sense. First of all, because of Clinton, many enlistend men make barely minimum wage. Many have to go on welfare just to feed their families. They are in desperate need of a pay raise just to get them on a level field. Secondly, our new war on terrorism has made us some new enimies and pissed of many old ones. This means that there is a potential for growing hostilites in the future, so we may not be shooting a million dollar rocket at a 10 dollar tarp, but rather a million dollar missile at a SAM site, or an enemy tank, or an arms depot, or even a chemical/nuclear arms factory. These posibilites are very real and not limited to the Middle east. All of Asia is growing more unstable by the day and we are now the center of a lot of anger. Do you want to be illprepaired if that happens? I sure don't.”

“Fritz I agree on business people being needed but NOT active ceo's to shape national policies that directly affect their own business-that is conflict of interest.The ceo of GE wasnt in there cuz he wasnt handing over buckets of cash and wasnt buddy,buddy with GW.Its GWs idiocy that he took lays cash and then decided to have him as his top energy advisor and then helped Lay get rich at the peril of california taxpayers 10bil budget surplus.This is what BUSH is directly accountable for.Lay is a skunk and anybody can smell that-except perhaps those that want to ride his gravy train.
t57- monica wasnt political scandal it was marital scandal and consentual sex that repubs turned into stupidity.
As for whitewater what was ever revealed there-nothing except a 50 million dollar waste of taxpayers money-a liberal thing,ya know...”

“Tried and convicted. Geez davey, I hope you never decide to put on a badge…strap on a gun…and become a LAWMAN!

Tom, REGULATION is not the cure-all you make it out to be. Did you read the excerpt that I posted on the Welfare State thread? If you would read the entire article it will give you reasons why regulation can be harmful to a market economy and pushes us closer to socialism.

There will always be crooks that will try to find away around any system. You cannot regulate morality. I’ll be interested to see what ideas are proposed to protect folks, in the future, from falling prey to people like the Enron and Anderson execs. These class action suites are mostly going to benefit the lawyers.”

“My point exactly! We pick and choose what we consider a scandal even when depending on 4th, 5th and 6th party information from a bias news media.”

“Tell that to the republican party, famous last words.Thats exactly what republicans attempt.Shoving prayer down your throat,bogus drug wars-zero tolerance(zero intelligence),media censorship...”

“davex...let's get a little specific here.

Shoving prayer down our throats???? Oh really?

Specifics please.”

“Donman...If it was you flying some antique aircraft, or fighting within anything less than the best...I promise you'd be screaming for better gear and training..If it was your father, brother, son you'd want them to have the best chance of coming back home to you whole...So, don't piss on the military and what they do for our country...they pay the price for our freedom..everyday..If we are going to overspend..this is the area in which to do it...or do you have some set monetary value for the life of each soldier?”

“I'm not gonna go back to hunt names, tho.


Gayvex -
You must've lost a job due to a failed drug test. Am I right?
...such a bitter lad, you are. I LOL at you!

Someone mentioned Bush's "fear mongering".
Whattafuh???
Wheredafuh you been???
The terrorists of 9/11 used fuel laden jetliners ONLY because they were unable to deliver weapons of more massive destruction!

If the psycho idiots could've procured a nuclear warhead - THEY WOULD'VE!
If they could have delivered that warhead - THEY WOULD'VE!

What Bush is aware of is that there ARE psychos out there that DO possess nuclear and biological weapons that CAN deliver those weapons.

BE F@CKING AFRAID!
BE VERY F@CKING AFRAID!

Bush's direct naming of terrorist supporting countries was RIGHT ON THE MARK! He announced to the world the WE are not going to sit idly by while these rat holes fester. We will, if neccessary, come over and clean their house.

BAM! Sick'em George!

Read your history, people. When the world's waters were crawling with pirates, it was the U.S. Navy that spearheaded the effort to annialate(sp?) the pirates. Mission accomplished.

When Europe was submerged in that bloodbath we call WWI, it was the Doughboys that stepped in, turned the tables, and saved the world from tyranny.

WWII: ditto.

America is a giant.
America WILL do whatever it takes to rid our world of these fanatical fundamentalist jiha-ha-has.

We will because we can.
We can because we MUST!”

“When we are done with the ragheads we shall turn our attention on the biggest threats to America (environmentalists) and eradicate them from the face of the earth.”

“I hope your trying to make this thread a little less serious.”

“I think you have gender issues.You seem to be stuck on the gay thing.
As for drug testing thats one Ive been able to pass since 17 cant say the same for GWB.Thats who you should be more concerned about.”

“No, more serious.”

“DM don't blame Clinton for that, I was in the Army from 86-89 and we made min wage. They will never be on a level field when in the military, it doesn't make fiscal sense... while in the service of the country you give up some things. I don't want to be caught unawares, and I think the reason we get caught is because we are a reactionary people, and I think putting too many $$ in defense now is pork. I'm glad that we are finally waking up to the reality of terrorism, it is a poor nations type of warfare. I believe our military has needed to re-tool itself for this kind of warfare. In fact I think the military is one of the few things that the Fed should be spending money on, but now Bush is trying to get the Fed to make jobs! Politics! go figure!”

“I dear! Gojo said #&%!$! He's fired up now!”

“You took yer first drug test last year?”

“U-2, B-52, .50 cal machinegun... all of these are antiques and are currently used. They are well-made and better than the competition. Do not confuse quality with age. I am a Proud Vet! During the Gulf war some of the super-weapons were being held together with duct-tape (Apache). Don't let emotional appeals create your argument, a lot of your tax dollars are going to finance programs like the Osprey which has always been fraught with problems. $$$ is being made by the private sector, and sometimes it is pork for a Senators district”

“davex is busy, gojo. He's trying to find where mainstream Republicans ever tried to pass legislation that could be construed as "forcing prayer down our throats."”

“Davex, get your self a good education then you will under stand my belifes.”

“I'm remembering how Trent Lott had it specified In The Appropriations Bill that 20 C-130's would be bought And Then Based in southern Mississippi. Previously unheard of in the history of the nation... basing is never specified in an appropriations bill, unless you're Trent Lott, I guess.

Or how, out in the middle of nowhere, a 2-lane blacktop road becomes a divided superhighway as it crosses into the district of a former Ways and Means Chairman... then, just as suddenly, it returns to a 2-lane as it exits the district.”

“they havent legislated it but they forced it in schools in kansas and many schools districts in the south/west rural communities...
However GW has initiated faith based charities which is the govt giving/wasting tax dollars away to religious orgs that do community service-can u see it now,scientology getting money for their bogus drug rehab programs!Govt and Church a failed concept(can anyone say Taliban,or any mid east theocracy) gw fails to grasp.Too bad u cant find fault with my criticism of GWs drugged out morally flawed character.”

“Gosh, I just had to go back. I couldn't pass this up:

As for whitewater what was ever revealed there-nothing except a 50 million dollar waste of taxpayers money-a liberal thing,ya know..."
davex
01:43:39 PM
01/30/02


Actually, dave-ster, 120 people were convicted of crimes relating to Whitewater.”

“why couldnt they bust clinton?cuz vince foster committed suicide/was murdered..o,oh another Fox News(liberal media)conspiracy theory coming up :)
Anyway,back to GWs corruption w/enron...”

“Money spent by private-sector, LOCAL charitable/social service organizations is SIGNIFICANTLY more efficient than government welfare programs.

You want to talk about WASTE?

Oh, never mind, I see you don't...you want to talk about GW's supposed corruption w/Enron.

As I said before, if Enron bought him, they sure as shootin' didn't get their money's worth, now did they?!”

“Jeezus, people. Go back and read your pointless, inflammatory drivel. Isn't it surprising how many things, if not said immediately, seem not worth saying ten minutes from now?”

“Taxpayer money spent by local charities is WELFARE.
Great,now were gonna get all these kookie religions asking for handouts.Are u gonna refuse handouts to Jehovahs,Scientologists,Mormons and whatever other crackpot religion that comes asking for money?This is nothing more than an invitation to have "do-gooders" rape the taxpayer again.Stupid idea.
GW and enron lets stay on course tho...”

“donman I agree that you give up some things to in the service to your country and thank you for your commitment to this country. However, in my work (involves defense) I have noticed there are thousands of past and current programs and weapons which money has been sunk into without any results. The other side of the coin shows that a lot of the technology we use today was once an of a military weapon designer. This is the cost of defense. GPS and other types of remote satellite technology are examples of successful projects that almost went nowhere (they cost a whole lot but changed everything). The question is how far ahead do we want to stay. Our defense has a commitment to our soldiers to provide them with the weapons and tactics one generation ahead of its time. If this policy saves lives, I have no problem with it. The problem arises when you have politics spending because the money is available. Which brings back up the idea of surplus. Politicans have a matchless ability to spend what is not being used someway somewhere somehow. That’s why I want to spend my own money the way I see fit.

davex, my friend how can any student in Kansas be force to pray? Give some type of intelligent source. And allowing prayer time is not forcing one to pray. Heck, even putting a gun to someone’s head and forcing them to read a scripted prayer is not praying. Also, you keep mentioning Bush's character. Again how do you define character flaws and scandals are totally your opinion. That’s why no one is commenting on them. I thought you were of the tolerance crowd.”

“TH57 I want to thank anybody who had anything to do with the GPS! My MOS relied HEAVILY on that technology! At the time there were no cute little plastic jobbies like they have now! Ours required a 2-man lift and lots of calibrating, but it was great!
And You're Welcome... thanks for thanking!”

“To me being a hypocrate,druggy,alcoholic nicely defines character flaw.This isnt just my opinion.Many republicans accept this definition except when it applies to their do-absolutely- no-wrong GWB/enron guy.”

“Whoa! How did I miss out on this? I think I will go back to finding out more about Matt.

Well, while I am here, my $.02 worth:

I thought the speech was ok. I mean what do you really ever learn from a State of the Union Address? Did we learn anything new? Or did we get a new spin on what we already learned?

Not criticizing Bush on this, the principle is the same with all Presidents since TV was invented.

Is Bush managing the war correctly? How do you "manage" a war? What is the proper level of force to be used? I guess there is no "one" answer to that, but my idea of any fight is to use whatever is necessary to accomplish the objective. The real difficulty is in setting the ultimate objective.

The budget? Well I believe in Keynsian economics. In times where revenue is short (recessions) you run a deficit. In times where the economy is on fire, you run a surplus AND use the surplus to cover the deficit you just ran up. How difficult is this? Any small business owner probably uses this method to run his company by way of a line of credit. However, the key is that once the money is borrowed, the payments need to be made in good times. If you have a small business, run up $100K in line of credit, and then turn a healthy profit do you buy a new car or house before you extinguish your debt? Not if you want to stay in business.

My number one concern with our govenment is the huge debt we have piled up. Nine years ago, the prospect of this was frightening. Massive deficits and uncontrolled spending bankrupted the Russians and conceivable could cripple our economy. However, the past several years have seen the balance swing back. Can we pay off the entire debt as fast as we ran it up? No. Consider the dehabilitating effect on M1 (money in circulation) if we did this. Way too many dollars would be chasing far too few goods.

However, a close examination of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Sr, or Reagan would lead us to ask "Who provides economic policy?" Alan Greenspan has probably been the best thing that ever happened to the US economic condition. Our economic policies must be carefully planned and executed on a long term basis, not on a 4 or 8 year term basis.

Everyone loves a tax cut. Boy, aren't they popular? If we ran up surplus after surplus, I would say we definately have too much taxes coming in. But have taxes been crippling? I don't think so, and believe me, I have paid my share. Everytime you drive down the roadway, everytime you visit a National Park, everytime you enjoy the experience of the Museum, you enjoy the benefit of your payments.

Is there abuse? You bet there is. Welfare payments have been abused. Program administration has been wasteful. Grants have been extended for every d@mn thing conceivable. Is this the blame of any administration? No. How much can you change the entire work of government in one or two terms.

Look to the lifers. Congressman and Senators who have spent a lifetime on the hill have to take charge in streamlining our government to work more like a business than a charity. It can't be done in a day or a week or a decade. But somewhere, just somewhere, we have to make a start. I do not think the Chief
Executive Officer with his brief tenure is the person to accomplish this task.

Enron v. Whitewater; Conservative v. Liberal; Democrat v. Republican; what difference does it matter? How much better (or worse) is one than the other?

Every level of govenment needs to be strengthened. We, collectively need to think more in terms of what will it take to create a strong government without breaking the bank. The waste and interest alone is enough money to strengthen programs from social to environment to military. We have obligations to ourselves and our allies. We should not, nor can we, shirk this duty. However, the primary duty of our government is to the US citizens and the duty of the Citizens is to strengthen the system. Opposition to a position or person is not treason. However, meaningless whining as opposed to creative action is a travisty.

How many of you have ever called or written your Congressman or Senator. Yes, I know they have a staff to answer the mail. I have served on such a staff and know full well how it works. I also know that most politicians are briefed every day on the "opinion mail".

Closer to home do you know who your Alderman is? Have you called him to express concerns? State Representative? I could go on with quite a list.

Quit whining, start doing. America is a great place but like any other place it needs maintenance. We, collectively and individually, are the maintenance people. Let's do our jobs.”

“Do you have a Gov101 class on Mondays? I think you are a good teacher!”

“If you ruined a perfectly pointless flame war chile36, you will be banned from TT!”

“orbit???? is that you........ Dang,,,,,,,,, what a philabuster!!!


Well for starters I missed the speech, the first one in awhile. I got roped into playing floor hockey instead w/chicks and beer vouchers to boot.

I kinda had a feeling what it was to be about, Katie Couric gave a brief overview that morning, so, you know, its all good.

Tea , brother you're always good for a chuckle!!!! Pissin fire nowadays ain't ya!!!! This is Hardball w/Chris Matthews!!! It is good to see a man of your age sticking to his guns. Sick'em boy, go on now.... get'm.

Tommy T, you seem to have a dislike for wealthy hardworking people or is it just lazy CEO's. Are you still pissed that Finkelstein kid had it easier than you?”

“I wanna be in Briar Rabbit fraternity too!”

“I have voted ALL sides of the political spectrum. I hope every voter tries their best to find out about the candidate, and not let the opposition define them.
I am a small business owner and, as such, am a beneficiary of the capitalist economy. I have no problems with wealth, fairlly earned.
I do not want government policy decided in a corporate board room. Rather, I would like to take my chances with someone elected to represent me, without undue influence of big $. Though I work hard, I have no chance of amassing $ in the amounts that are currently being used to line the pockets of Dems and Reps alike.
If you understand the nature of a corporation, you will understand why they need to be regulated.
I also do not understand why defering massive debt to my chidren and grandchildren is considered fiscally responsible.
I do remember when the Republicans were for the balanced budget amendment. Where have they gone?”

“Jesse Jackson got himself a pocket full of Enron money. Now he is on a bus tour with a couple former Enron employees trying to shame politicians to give back the Enron money. When asked about the money Enron gave to the political action group Rainbow coalition, Jackson replied he won't give that money back, because it is being used for good, not evil.

Talk about corruption. When is the IRS gonna clamp down on those crooks?”