Going without a pack?

“Sorry 'bout that Skully, *G*.


For Sure, guys. How does that one go... ?

"Hypothermia's a #&%!$, then you die"

??”

“Hypothermia's a bitch, then you die?


hee-hee, I can curse.”

“dang.”

“boots are number one to me, then it's the 10, then it's about whatever I want. If I wanna carry a heavy pack with wine and fresh food so be it. If I wanna have pocket food and minimal shelter that's great too. I think what Liam is thinking is a decent idea (unless the weather is bad and you find yourself throwing all your stuff on the ground to put up your tarp). In the service I spent many days in the field with the clothes on my back, 1 MRE per day, then a hot meal that I'd travel for.”

“You've figured out a way around the language filter. Now that's useful expertise.”

“hey nigal, i think you misunderstood me before. i don't care what anyone else does in the woods. i was just saying that as i was sitting here thinking about going into the woods without a backpack the thought just started getting more and more ridiculous. like unnatural or something. all i really meant was i couldn't see myself actually doing it. i didn't mean any offense to anyone by it.”

“in fact, if i saw an ultralighter who actually dropped the pack i'd probly get a little respect for him/her out of it”

“Don’t worry about it Josh. I have to face the fact that, that while I absolutely love hiking, I don’t much care for most hikers. Pretension and presumption are two qualities that I have the hardest time getting past and I have found hikers to be no short supply of both. It iks me when there is even a slight presumption that there is one right way to do something that is so subjective. I have seen countless times hikers spout off about how wrong something is and how right their way is and then tack on the, “but ya know, hike your own hike.”. It’s kind of like tacking , “Some of my best friends are black.” on the end of a nigger joke.

I love hiking but I’ve come to realize that discussing hiking in an open place is just no fun. I just need to learn to not let the wankers bother me and to avoid them.”

“Crust first or or vice versa. Whocares!”

“after i read that statement it doesn't really say what i meant. i just meant that for me. i'll be more careful next time.”

“you could get the postal service mail bags which have nice shoulder starps that would work great!

the weight would be balanced on both shoulders still!”

“I guess I just like the convenience of the pack. Its one big stuff sack that fits firm and snuggly to my body.
When I bivouac I bring a sleeping bag and bivy and a emergency blanket that doubles either as a shelter or ground cloth. My tent is 5.8 lbs so it stays home when not needed. All my items could be lighter.

Oh and I'm cheap too, Liam. I gotsa some ol'chit man! I haven't made a serious purchases other than some new "kickers" in seven yrs.

I just had a flashback from the scene in Midnight Express when Billy starts walking in the opposing direction. What a stir it created!! You may have something.”

“Hey skully, The original post asked for input. I gave mine. Here is some more input. Go tell your ex-husband what to do.”

“Well, this is what I've seen so far on this post:

• reasons not to do it.
  
• alternatives to doing it ("postal service mail bags," Prowler?)
  

With that said, let me reiterate a few things. First, any concepts that I come across or develop are always tested in a graduated way. There will be a series of short (< 1 mile) day hikes in good weather. From there if the concept meets certain requirements (primarily in comfort and function), then I will try it under different circumstances (inclement weather, night). This won't be used in winter, high altitudes, or on trips longer than five to seven days.

For those concerned about my safety, don't be. I have plenty of experience in the woodline (both for civilian enjoyment and in the military).

With that said, let me say thank you to those who have contributed input. Supertroll, I'll be looking into the option of a vest - great idea! Thanks also to Skullcap. It's good to know that I'm not pioneering this and have some resources to refer to.

After the development stage is done, I'll post results for anyone interested.”

“Good luck--hope it works out.:)”

“So they pretty much convinced you against it, eh?

Baggy hip-hop pants should have big enough pockets that'll fit most of your gear. Them and one of those fishing vests, and you'll be ready for America's Funniest Videos.”

“Bear in mind that this list and its weight is without food and water allowances.

• matches
  
• lighter
  
• pre-made tinder
  
• MSR mountain bowl
  
• 7 x 9 outdoor products coated nylon tarp
  
• fleece sleeping bag (spring/fall only)
  
• two pairs socks/day
  
• 50' 550 cord
  
• Kabar knife
  
• Pur Hiker water purifier
  
• compass
  
• map
  
• rain jacket
  
• bandanna
  
• (2) 32 oz. nalgene bottles
  
• three short sleeved shirts (lightweight cotton)
  

I think that's all.”

“Forgot the weight.

Totalled, it comes to 7.24 lbs.”

“first aid?
flashlight?
Food?
Spoon?
Water?
Warm Clothes?
TP?
Ground Mat?
Ground Cloth?
Trash bag?
Coffee?

I guess I don't understand how a person can hike for several days without the above items.”

“I thought of a name for this kind of walking. How about "Accident waiting to happen" or "Dont camp near me I might use some of ya stuff" or "Damm it I'm going nude, 0.0lbs or bust"









Just Joking!”

“I already stated that food isn't in the equation, and water can (in most parts of MO) be found on the trail.

I don't need a flashlight as God granted me with vision that adjusts as it gets dark (and I tend to sleep then anyway).

No need of a mat if you find a site without excessive rocks, and I use part of the tarp as a groud cover. As previously stated, this concept is more or less limited to late spring, summer, and early fall in MO.

No need of a spoon. Two small (green) sticks sterilized over the fire for chopsticks. Burn when finished.

I've been EMT trained, so I have a general sense of how to patch myself up. There are three 4x4 dressings on my person. Most everything else can be reconstructed using something else.

TP can be burned, and I don't generate any other trash to necessitate a trashbag. I pre-pack my food in ziplocks and those come back with me for use next time.

In my arrogance, I neglected to mention TP. I may subscribe to ultralight theory, but I'm not a scumbag.


lol Bunyip!”

“That's the best part of being bossy and a liberal. I tell everyone what to do equally and don't discriminate on the basis of marital status, or anything else. ¦ P
.”

“I remember ticks being everywhere the last time I was in MO in the warmer months. You may want to add insect repellant, or at least 1 long sleeve shirt.”

“Liam, your theory basically seems to be that a pack is redundant if the shelter (tarp in this case) can fill that purpose. So the focus is on how to configure the tarp or other shelter -- such as a bivy bag -- to act as a pack. Whether it is worn crosswise or in some other configuration doesn't seem a defining criteria, as stringing a belt through a rolled tarp is just another form of pack and strap[s]. A load-bearing vest of some sort (and I've used them as an angler, hunter and photojournalist) seems to just be a pack with the compartments spread out around your torso, without a secondary use (unless you count it as clothing).

So the longitudinally rolled tarp is one configuration. Advantage, if you can balance the contents into two equal segments is that it can wrap around front and back , connecting like a ring bologna at the hip. Maybe you would just need a small buckle attached to some adjustable webbing strips on each end of the roll.

Another would be bringing the 4 corners into the center in an overlapping sequence of some nature (as in the way they put warm bread in a napkin lined basket, then fold over the napkin to keep it warm), perhaps with Velcro strips on edges that align. Depending on the number of folds, you may be able to vary the size of the finished shape to accomodate different volume loads. Then straps of some sort would be attached for slinging the bundle over your back, probably in traditional format of two shoulder straps.

The key will be to lay out the tarp and brainstorm all the ways you might wrap up your kit in it to a carry-able shape, trying not to be restricted by convention (which is what you are hearing roused in negative or doubtful replies). Just be sure to also brainstorm the criteria you will need to judge a possible solution to the question. This is a classic situation for invoking critical thinking and creative thinking processes.

BTW, have you considered the string (mesh) bag pack form? A nylon mesh bag (such as a small laundry bag) with attached straps and a drawstring closure could be lined with your tarp to protect the contents and could then be used to hang food or other items off the ground while the tarp is in use. Weighs hardly anything and is multipurpose, inexpensive. I know there is at least one company that has made a commercial version where you load a waterproof bag into such a mesh carrier, and I have a paddler's version for carrying my kayak/canoe gear that I got from Nantahala Outdoor Center catalog, but for a small light load such as yours, you could easily make one yourself.”

“There was a fishing vest in a Sierra Trading Post sale flyer I got yesterday. It was listed as 1 lb. No real weight savings there.

I wonder what one of those baskets you carry on your head weighs? j/k”

“Good thinking Pekka.

“I may subscribe to ultralight theory, but I'm not a scumbag.”

Hey! I resemble that remark! LOL! Liam I love your style! Your posts are refreshing and they make me feel a bit less lonely. You obviously have a good grasp on what can be done and when and where(you state repeatedly that this a summer thing but everyone keeps talking like you’re gonna freeze to death). Don’t worry brother, I actually read your posts. This year I’m committing myself to learning more primitive skills and wood craft. I already have one trip planned that will entail carrying only what I can get in my pockets.

This is for SUMMER and does not entail hiking but spending time in the woods working on skills and having fun. It is going to be an overnighter in a safe area as it is my first time and the list may change as I learn more skills. Now before anyone takes all the time to tell me I’m crazy and dangerous use those few seconds and click here in stead.










Heehee! Ain't I perty?”

“Did you just take that with your webcam?







You may want to check out the primitive skills section of this forum. It usually has some pretty good stuff.”

“Spank you Skully! I'm on a primitive e mail list but they are just a differant bread of gearheads; "Dude, you should see my new bow drill I bought!", "What's the best spear to buy?". Waste of time IMHO.

Thanks again dude!”

“Don't even get me started!

Yep, that nigal is a frail one alright.”

“No prob nigal.”

“The person you want to ask about this subject is humanpackmule. He's been planning a packless trip, using a tarp as the bedroll, for his entire scout troop for some time. Unfortunately he rarely has the opportunity to reply from work these days because of restrictions. I'll see if I can get him on this subject after work tonight.”

“could you maybe roll everything that won't fit in your pockets up in the sleeping bag instead of the tarp and roll the strap through the middle and kind of sling it over one shoulder and under the other. the load would actually be carried like a postal service bag. you could also use the tarp on the outside for rain. i think if you rolled everything up like that it would help stabilize because it would be rolled up twice instead of once. ????”

“or throw everything in the bottom of your bag, roll it up, and then roll it up again in the tarp”

“A great option here might be to use one of the big ponchos as the tarp/pack/rain gear. It could offer more configuration options?”

“LOL, Nigal! Great pic to cheer me up. Thanks.”

“Liam,
sounds like you have a good plan. Sounds like you are returning to Highlander roots! Let us know about your trips”

“Thanks for your support Nigal! Helps me to know that I'm not the crackpot I suspected I was. Or if I am that crackpot, it's for different reasons.

Donman, I have done some research into some more "primitive" cultures, and the highlanders were one of the groups I looked into for insight.

The aborigines of Australia live in good comfort in areas where few things can survive. My personal favorite are the Shaolin monks, who after completion on training, took to the land with only a small wooden bowl and a razor for shaving their heads (to me they could have lost the razor and saved a tenth of an ounce, lol!).

Thank you Pekka for the critical thinking. Your correct in your statement that the configuration that the end product is carried isn't truly relevant (at least at this stage), and will likely be determined by what's most comfortable. Your design concepts for packing (and their explanations) were exactly the input I was looking for.

I realize that when this is all said and done, I may get a couple miles into the woodline and just not be happy with what I have. Simple solution is to bring a pack and leave it in my car, get the pack, and enjoy the rest of my trip, then go home and try a little re-engineering of the concept.

Bottomline is that we should never be satisfied and complacent about the prevailing convention or paradigm of how things work. While the ultralight theory is not for everyone (or I might content most people), there will always be a way to improve they way you do backpacking. If you bring the kitchen sink, is there any reason that it can't stronger, more streamlined, or even asthetically pleasing? We can always be passively (if not actively) looking for improvements. No doubt that's why we all subscribe and contribute to this forum.

Thank you again for all the input, and keep it coming! Believe it or not, thanks to many of your posts, I've made several changes in the design and implementation, and have several pages of notes to the effect.”