Slide scanners

“Ok, I'm talking real, honest-to-goodness scanners that ONLY scan negatives or slides. NOT flatbed photo scanners.

Any recommendations? I have waaaaaaay too many slides just sitting around in dark corners. I want to scan them!! While I have an adequate Microtek flatbed scanner for photos -- with a crappy little slide attachment thingee -- it will not give me the quality of slides I want. And flatbeds don't give that quality for slides, period, because of the space between the slide and the glass.

I see there are some around the $400 range... I also see the $1,700 and up models <<< EEEK!! Definitely not affordable!!

I see some have around 2,800 dpi resolution. That is what magazines require for resolution for their photos, I believe. Not that I sell a lot of photos to magazines, but I have at times and would like to think the potential is there. (Lizs<<< head in clouds!! lol)

Anyhoo, what do I need to think about? I talked to a friend that said a file at 2,800 resolution is gonna be hundreds of MBs and very tough to send anywhere, at least by e-mail, due to its size. Anyone know anything about FTP? Is that a way to send a file?

I suspect I'll get a $400 model and most likely NOT get the high-quality, magazine-acceptable use out of it, but if someone can verify, that'd be nice.

Also, RECOMMENDATIONS???

Thanks for letting me ramble!! You'll be seeing a lot more of my photos if I get a slide scanner, for better or worse!! LOL :-)”

“lizs - Thanks for your post and your information. I'll be watching as I was planning to purchase a scanner like yours with a slide attachment.”

“Hi Lizs - as we speak I am scanning slides from my White Mts trip which was this past October. FINALLY getting around to it.

I'm using a Nikon LS-2000 film/slide scanner and it is terrific for slides. It scans up to 2700 dpi and I am able to print wonderful 300dpi 8x10s on my Epson 1270. NATURALLY, one month after I paid over $1400 for it, they came out with a newer version and the priced dropped to under $900.

The newer model, the LS-4000 scans up to 4000dpi but IMHO, that is overkill unless you want to print bigger than 11x17. Plus it's at that high end price.

I know, I know.... $$$$$$$, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. You might want to take a look at the HP Photosmart S20. It scans film/slides up to 2400dpi, good enough for those quality 8x10's. B&H in NY has it for $469. Here's the link.

You might want to do a web search for scanner reviews but the S20 might be the ticket for you. BTW, when I finish these scans, it might be sitting for a while. The new digi is a pure joy! Also, the Coolpix 995 package is still for sale. ;-)”

“Good thread. I've been scratching my head and wondering if anyone knew of a reasonably priced negative/slide scanner. Guess it's time to dig out the B&H catalog.

Liz why don't you buy one of those H-P S20s Pennys is talking about and let us know if we should invest in one?”

“I am starting to hear good things about the Epson 2450. Around $400. However, it is still a FLATBED, with attachments to hold slides. On the other hand, it also holds up to 4x5 slides or negs. Right now I'm talking with three people who have them.

I'd like to do a HUGE print, like 16x20, by taking MY SCAN -- burned to CD, let's say, that would work -- to a film/printing shop. Or to e-mail, as I first mentioned.

I've heard a scan at 2800 dpi might run 24 MB. That's a big problem for e-mail, but what about FTP? I've never used that. Burning it to CD would be no problem, since that's 700-some megabytes.

Here's B&H's page listing what scanners they have. The one Canon and Minolta I'm looking at are very reasonable. Not like Pennsy's Nikon stuff!!! LOL!

Scanners galore

That Epson I mentioned sounds tempting. I just saw a review on it in the March Outdoor Photographer magazine. Still, anytime you get that slide off the glass, even that tiny amount of the slide holder on a flatbed, you're gonna lose a little quality.

I'll continue looking... :-)”

“Lizs - I took a quick peek at the Epson. While it may be a very good flatbed scanner, the key phrase is "Letter Size Flatbed Scanner with Transparency Scanning Capability." In other words, it's main function is to scan documents/photos with the option to do slides. If you plan to scan mostly slides, my suggestion would be to look for a scanner whose main function is slides/negs. Dealing with those attachments and glass can be quite a pain. With my slide scanner, I first blow off any dust on the slide, stick it in the slot and go. There is almost never any post cleanup in Photoshop.

I also think that huge file sizes are overrated. I've scanned at 2700 in raw tiff mode and produced sizes up to 55mb. I've scanned the same slides using 90% jpg compression that produced files from 2-6mbs. I cannot see any difference at all between the 2. Maybe with a loupe I could so I stick to jpgs.

I've never sold anything to magazines (or anyone for that matter LOL!), but wouldn't a magazine just want the slide?

Somewhere around here I have a link to a good filmscanner discussion board but darned if I can't find it. I'll looks some more but in the meantime I found this scanner review site: imaging-resource.com
The Minolta Dimages look promising. Hey, don't tell Nikon that one of their best customers is recommending other stuff. ;o)

Happy hunting!”

“Here's another site with scanner info to confuse you. ;o) scantips.com”

“Pennsy, If you want some stuff to scan I surely could help you on that one!!!

:-)”

“Lizs -

I too used a Microtek with the attachment thing. I could get mediocre scans, but nothing of the quality necessary for publication or large prints. So, I drop a few dollars and bought the Canoscan FS4000-US. It will scan at 4000 dpi and I can always scale down. Yes, the files are large, but when I have prints made from slides, I do all my work in Photoshop, (using color profiles) and then FTP the files to a professional lab in jpg format at high quality. The results have been outstanding. An added bonus is the auto scratch and dirt removal.

I considered a lower resolution scanner (2800 dpi), but then I knew I would be starting out resolution-limited. I added a few extra dollars for the 4000 knowing I can always scan at a lower resolution when I don't have to be so particular. Be advised, the high res scans are time consuming, but worth it.

I bought my scanner from B&H and I do not regret it.

http://showcase.netins.net/web/ladagephoto/”

“Come back Lizs, it ain't all that bad! ;-)

Snacks - great website and wonderful photography. Plus I learned something.... I didn't realize you could ftp files to a pro lab. Interesting.

Oh yeah Adventurist - I kinda remember some fool volunteering his scanning services. Woops.... BUT, bring them into work one night and I'll see what I can do. Call my cell (still got it?) before 3:30 and I'll run over after work.”

“Hey Snacks,

Can you elaborate on your scan settings, how big the file is, and how you FTP it? Do you have to have your own website to do FTPs? I would need to get a website set up first, if that's the case. If it IS the CASE, can you use some online service for a website, or does it have to be through your local ISP?

I know ProColor in Mpls has had some info in the past on FTPing files. Then I read some stuff from a lab in Omaha that sounded totally different. They said crap like make the file 75% dpi of final expected....yadda yadda. Stuff that made no sense to me. (Plus, they wanted people to ZIP their photo files. YIkES!!)

Say for an 8x10 or 16x20:
1. What dpi are you scanning at?
2. Do you then size the image to be the finished size? Or is it enlarged at lab?
3. How many MBs do you go up to?
4. How long does it take to FTP? (and where do you send yours? I got fed up with ProColor and am looking for a new semi-local lab)
5. Do you send scans to mags? (SEE...Snacks does magazine work, and good work!)
6. What steps would you take for, say, a finished size 7x7 shot?
7. Can you e-mail at all? (Hey, I got the stuff from Iowa Natural Heritage mag, just like I'm sure you did. hehehe)

This is all so confusing..... scanning! It seems whenever I learn something, I then need to re-learn for other situations. I had always sized photos for inches, cuz of my newspaper work. Now I also post to a website where you go by PIXELS wide and tall.

Toooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuch!!! I'm sure you can help me see clearly, no pun intended. LOL

Thanks!!”

“lizs - A Google search on FTP brought up numerous sites. Here are three which may help you. Good luck.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3”

“Lizs and others interested –

Here is a basic (that usually means boring) explanation for your questions. Hopefully I have answered them clearly. If not, post the question again.


Say for an 8x10 or 16x20:
“1. What dpi are you scanning at?”
For a high-quality finished image, I start out with a scan of 4000dpi. This creates a large file (50-60meg) that allows me to clearly see all details, including individual grain! I then crop/resize my image to the desired finished size at the resolution required by the lab. When working with a professional lab, it is important that you assign your file an image profile used by your lab. My lab uses Prophoto RGB or sRGB IEC 61966-2.1 modes. It is important that you understand color management. If you don’t, you will forever be fighting mismatched colors. Your lab should be able to explain the basics to you. Of course, the web has info too.


“2. Do you then size the image to be the finished size? Or is it enlarged at lab?”

Each file I ftp to a lab is a completed product. I do any resizing since I want to select exactly what is in the finished print and what isn’t. The various aspect ratios commonly produced from a 35mm slide or neg. still require, just like darkroom work, some cropping. However, instead of using masks, you use your cropping tools in your manipulation programs.

Any finished file I send to a lab ideally should require no adjustments. I know the lab opens each file to assure all is well, but I try to have everything complete – resolution, sizing, color profile, manipulation, dust/scratch removal, etc – before the image file is processed.


“3. How many MBs do you go up to?”

My completed files, in psd format (Photoshop Layers), will be in the range of 20-26 meg for an 11x14 print. I always save the finished file in psd so further manipulation can still be done if the customer is not satisfied. After I have cash in hand, the psd file is deleted. After saving the file in psd, I then flatten the layers in the psd file and save the file in high quality (12) jpg format. This will be the file I FTP to the lab. That file will typically be in the 8-12 meg range.


“4. How long does it take to FTP? (and where do you send yours? I got fed up with ProColor and am looking for a new semi-local lab)”

I am still using a dial-up connection, which means the FTP process is time consuming. I plan to spend 20-30 minutes per file for an 11x14 file. The lab I use has an Internet based file transfer program, but I repeatedly had trouble. I worked with the lab and now have an FTP account. The FTP account has worked flawlessly. You do not need a web site to ftp files. For the record, I use “WS_FTP95” for file transfers.

The lab I use is American Color Imaging in Cedar Falls, Iowa. (1-800-728-2722 and www.acilab.com). This lab is primarily a portrait/wedding photographers’ lab, but they do my nature related work as well. I have been very satisfied with their work. They have gone out of their way to make sure the migration to digital has worked for me. One other comment about this lab is that their product is still produced on true photo paper. The finished work looks great!


“5. Do you send scans to mags?”

Some magazines are encouraging digital files, some aren’t. If I don’t know, I assume they are (the power of positive thinking???) and I explain my digital capabilities. I am sure this area will expand soon.


“6. What steps would you take for, say, a finished size 7x7 shot? “

A – Scan the image at 4000
B – Assign a color profile
C – Crop/resize as needed at required resolution
D – Manipulate the file as needed.
E – Save finished file in psd format.
F – Save file in jpg format – compressed at high quality (12)
G – FTP to lab
H – Wait a week or two for the brown truck to deliver the print
I – Ship print to customer
J – Go to the bank!
K – Delete the psd file when I am sure no further orders are expected.


“7. Can you e-mail at all?”

I do not routinely e-mail the large file images due to the time it takes to me to upload the message with the attachment and the recipient to download. If a sample is requested, I do a low-res scan or low-res sample of the finished work, with my name burned in, and send that as an attachment.

Is anyone still awake out there? Good luck with your files and scanner choices.

Lizs – let me know which scanner you finally choose.

Snacks”

“snacks - Great information. Thanks for taking the time to enlighten us.”

“Lizs what really matters is the quality of the flatbed scanner. Just cause it's a flatbed does not mean that it isn't good for scanning slides.

I've scanned transpariences and slides on a Linotype/Hell flatbed for many years with exceptional results. Granted it could scan at 9600 DPI and that is massive overkill for most scan work. But all the color work for Rodale Scuba Diving Mag has been done on that unit for years and still is last I heard.”

“Great stuff snacks. Thanks for sharing. I especially like step 6-J. ;o)
Again I learned something new. I didn't realize you could save an image as a .psd, close it, reopen it and still edit layers. Cool! I'm just learning Photoshop - soooo much stuff!

I see why you like the 4000dpi and the big file sizes. It's part of your biz and that is important. My point about dpi and size overkill was geared towards amateur schmos like moi who aren't doing it for a living. Since Liz is on a budget, I still believe she can do very well with a 2400-2700 dpi scanner and manageable jpg files. I am quite pleased with the 8x10's I produce on my rather inexpensive Epson printer with matte paper. I'd love to see what a pro-lab could do with them.

HPM - I wasn't implying that all flatbed scanners are crappy with slides. I was keeping in mind Liz's price range like the HP flatbed scanner I have. The slide attachment is pretty much worthless. The Linotype/Hell sounds like high end stuff?

Wow, look what you started Lizs. LOL! Need any more links?”

“How's this.... just send all your slides to snacks? ;o)”

“Wow, Snacks, I KNEW you were the man for the job!!

Very, very informative. I woulda e-mailed you on this, but figured there might be a few others here who would also welcome the information you'd give.

OK, one more question.......hehehee. In No. 6, when I asked about a 7x7 shot? Can ya please run through your A-B-Cs as they relate to that being a photo you are sending to a magazine? Muy appreciado!!

And hey Snacks!! Did you know Crazy Mike on this site is having a hike at Yellow River over Memorial Day weekend? He's got it listed on his website. I'm sure gonna try to do this one. How 'bout you??”

“Lizs -

There really won't be much change in procedure for a digital file going to lab for a print or a file going to a magazine unless the magazine publisher wants color separation. To date, I have been able to send my files as high quality jpg or tif and the color separation is done later. I suppose at some time in the future, depending on the publication, we will have that option. But since many people don't closely follow color management, the publishers probably would receive files with so many variables that the consistency needed wouldn't be there from one submission to the next, or even from individual files from the same photog.

Those are just my thoughts on it. Ask your magazine editors how they want the files and I'll bet you will be sending a jpg or tif.

Concerning a lower res scanner vs. higher res. Yes, the lower res (2400-2700) will do fine for most work. I even considered one myself until Canon came out with a 4000 for slightly more than half the price of the Nikon. My main consideration was that I didn't want to put myself in a position where I would become unable to compete with others in a short time because I wanted to save a few dollars. Sadly, photography is not my primary source of income yet, so it was with considerable thought that I spent the extra for the 4000. That said, I should add that the ability to produce excellent 11x14 images, with and without digital enhancement, and word of mouth advertising has brought me a steady supply of work that has nearly paid for the tool already. If I had intended to use it only for personal work, I too would have opted for the lower res (but still high quality) scanners. I am sure there is nothing wrong with them.

One other thing I should mention - You don't need to completely close and reopen a file to save in different formats. Just do your save in psd, then flatten the layers and save the file as a jpg. Photoshop will ask which compression rate you want to use to allow for various file sizes.

And now for something completely different...

A Yellow River hike sounds like fun. That is a busy time for us so I'm not sure that I can make it. I will try though.”

“Okay, here's my vote after carefully reviewing your options. (for what it's worth hey?) Given your budget restraints, and knowing what you hope to accomplish, I'd shop around for either a new or used Nikon LS-2000. The new generation of Nikon 4000 dpi scanners has really brought the price on the LS-2000 down a lot, and I'm betting e-bay has a ton of them. 2700 dpi is more than adequate for what you hope to do with it, and my experience with this scanner has all been good. Just a thought.”

“Pennsy, sorry dude you are right about the price range thing. I'm thinking way out in happy land where cash isn't a problem.
LOL.

I guess my only point is that the issue with flatbed slide scan quality isn't only the space between the neg and glass (although it does affect quality)it is the quality of the scanner optics and the scanner software. A lot of the cheapie scanners have decent optics but bottom basement software.

Linotype/Hell is high end allright, try $45K. I really miss that scanner! :( They used to have an extremely nice unit for less than 2K but I can't seem to find them anymore. Oh well, I no longer work in print so I don't need that level anymore.

Lizs the magazine will tell you exactly what they want when you submit images. The mag will let whoever does their prepress do the color correction and separations.”