What would you do?

“I'm divorced & remarried, my kids do not like the fact I remarried so when I get them, its not the best time for them so I try to do things as hike and things they like to do but can't everytime I have them. Now their mother uses my weekends as threats "behave or I will send you to your Dads" so now I'm "punishment" Can you put yourself in my spot? what should I do, Slam the #&%!$, or just talk to the kids, they are 15 & 17 girl & boy any advise welcomed.”

“OK, muttley, here goes.
Rule#1. Do not refer to your childrens' mother in negative terms. I refrained from this, although it was difficult and she was no angel, and my two adult daughters have told me that they feel closer to me because I didn't cross that line.
2. Don't shut the door on your kids. Even though you might be used as "punishment" by your ex, children are very perceptive and can tell when someone is loving and supporting them in spite of all of the difficulties.
3. Don't talk to your kids about the troubles between you and your ex. It is not their fault. You have to work out all of that with your ex, however difficult that is.
4. Don't try to become a one-man Disneyland for your kids. You are much more than an entertainment committee to them, and you can never please teenagers anyway. Just be straight with them and display your love when the opportunity arises.
It is a tough situation you are in, but how you handle it now will make a huge difference down the road.”

“And most importantly: 15 - 17 year olds don't like anything!”

“My children are 11 and 7. They were 7 and 3 when their mother and I were divorced. The single biggest revelation I had in this ordeal was when I realized that children (even young children) comprehend much, much more than we (adults) think that they do. I have found the absolute best policy is to sit and talk to my children about issues that affect them or that affect me. They have come to appreciate the open and honest relationship. Also, I think that they take comfort and some pride in the fact that they can help me with my problems as much as I can help them.”

“Dunadan has the plan down pat. You can’t go wrong with his advice. Just to add, never let it come down to the stepmother vs. the kids. Be 100% honest with the kids.”

“I'm reading into your statement, "its not the best time for them." My experience was that they would weigh the experience of the entertainment, that I was presenting, against their planned activities. Unfortunately, they will have conflicting activities, especially at that age. If you live close enough, try to work with them on these conflicts. When they have other plans, you might try to visit with them on some other days, perhaps in the evenings. Talk with them about it and do a lot of serious listening. Try to bring them into an arrangement that will work better for them.

I would suggest that you quit trying to entertain them until they show that they enjoy it. Forcing them makes it a negative event. Just visit and try to let them lead you.

Whatever you do, try to maintain some contact with them. If distance is a problem, try to make plans with them well in advance of your visits. (But you still need to expect some conflicts. They do have their life with its' interests and activities. Give them your respect and work with them.)

They are at a very critical period in their lives. When I took my 18 yr. old daughter to college last Aug., one of the speakers said, "It's time to let go." I knew that, but it does not mean to break with them. It means that you have to allow them to make their own decisions and to live their lives without too much interference. But, you need to keep assuring them that they have your support and backing whenever it is needed. Keep your love flowing and, eventually. it will pay dividents.

"Now their mother uses my weekends as threats." I don't know how to handle this stuff. It caused me to "Slam the #&%!$." I made a big mistake!

(My experiences really helped with a subsequent, second family.)”

“Thanks, Nigal. I think Chili is speaking wisdom, also.”

“I see that other have expressed similar things while I was composing my post.

Good luck in your difficult situation.”

“Damn nowslimmer, your wisdom exceeds your years! Great advise! I love my wife as much as life itself and have no kids but I’m writing that chit down!”

“I am not remarried, but it is still an adjustment for the teenage kids to come over to Dad's. When they are at Dad's we spend time together. When they are at Mom's they spend time with their friends and pets. It is a difficult age for children regardless of the family situation. Two sets of rules, extra commitment on their time, etc. make it tougher.

I have struggled with girlfriends who want to 'Mother' my kids. My kids have a mother they don't need two. Your wife needs to give these kids lots of space. She should be their friend not their second Mom.”

“And here I had you pegged for the O.J. Simpson type of ex?”

“What bacpac said.”

“Lots of good advice here. I went through 10 years of hell, but never turned my back on my kids or closed the door.

My ex signed a lease in Montreal for my 16 year-old daughter to live with her 22 y-old boyfriend because youth protection was on her @ss. The principal would call me and we'd call the department. The Montreal people wouldn't have anything to do with me (fathers are the official bad guys).

My daughter wouldn't talk to me because I was getting in her way. She ended up living from friend's place to friend's place and landed in the hospital. Guess what? the only person they could get in touch with was me. It tore my heart to pick up the big hockey bag that had all her belongings in someone's basement guest room. It had a broken china doll in it that I had given her (it's repaired now).

She came to live with me, got a part-time job, went to college and works in an office in northern Ontario. We talk every day now and we see each other regularly - I'm driving up at Easter.

My son was always exteremely difficult. He was hit by a car in 1999, July 8 (my birthday). He spent six months with me after the accident just one week after my daughter left. He was on a liquid diet for eight weeks. I had to get up every couple of hours to change his position in bed and give him pain killers, or bring him a pee bottle.

He was verbally abusive and would throw things at me. The following year he had his first psychotic episode and we learned he had been fighting a private, losing battle with manic depression for most of his life. It wasn't my parenting, or the divorce, it was (and is) mental illness.

Now he and I understand our situations at last and we get along famously. He has a steady job and lives with his girl-friend who is a beautiful and brilliant post-grad student at McGill.

Muttley, I often wanted to get out of parenting as badly as I wanted to get out of my marriage, but I never did it and was always there for them. I lost girl-friends (my friends stood by me) who wanted me to 'stand up for myself' etc.

My ex got custody by accusing me of beating my children. For years I couldn't face people, or walk in the village. Now everyone - and most importantly my kids - understands. People that hadn't talked to me in years make a point of asking me how things are and being pleasant.

My decade of hell is finally over - oh yes - my ex sued me for the child support I didn't send her when the kids were living with me. The (Cdn) IRS seized my salary because they said I couldn't claim my kids. The gov't gave me back my money and the loan I took out for the support payments is paid off. I finally bought my second childhood Jeep Wrangler and parents at the last parent-teacher night came and told me that they had heard that things were finally going my way and they were happy for me. I couldn't walk in the village because I thought people believed what my ex was saying and now I know that they were worried about me and knew the truth.

Mottley, never give up and never close the door. One day they will understand and that will be the most wonderul day of your life; and you must never give up hope that that day will come. God bless you and I have to go for a walk because I don't want anyone to see me crying.”

“Lets keep it above the belt!!

My experience in this limited, I only have observation to go by. One, I think children in general are growning up faster(forced into maturity) than they did in my era. Primarily do to single parenting, I believe.
Second, I don't like the notion of using the children as pawns, tools use to manipulate, to gain an advantage over the other. Children can recognize this tug-of -war. Siblings siding with opposing parents, the parents will show a closeness never before seen in order to win a child over.

Thirdly don't give up on being a more of a father than a friend. You are still a role model for both your daughter and son. Since your exposure with them is limited the time spent with them becomes 2x as important. Make good on your promises to yourself and them. Rise above the nonsense and mind games that are often played and forget about your ex and focus on the children. These times will create lasting impressions about relationships for them, so you must shine.”

“Lots of good advice, guys. My parents divorced also (they have since remarried), and not badmouthing the other parent to the kids is real important, and probably one of the hardest things to do. I think if you follow the advice given above, and grit your teeth, things will get much better in five years or less.”

“Thankyou for posting that, Gremlin. You are a brave man.”

“Dunadan = Dear Abby?”

“Dunadan, Chili36, Nigal, nowslimmer, Bacpac, Gremlim Thank you!!

I hope my kids will eventually understand the why's.... I don't spoil them because thats what their mom does, I try to give them a taste of what real life is like. So they want to be with their mom (and friends) I realize they need to be with their friends so usually friday nights they have that but on sat afternoon,eves and sundays I require them to be with me ex wants to "make them come with me on friday as punishment (can't be with their friends) for behavior at her place but on her weekends she will not punish them. So I'm the bad guy.

We live 40 miles from each other we try to talk but they can't call me Because its long distance.

I won't slam her I promise I'll listen to your advise.

Two sets of rules do exist mine being more restrictive.. but I'm not out of line they get away with whatever they want at her place an she has no clue as to what is going on.

Gremlin, I hope that I can have just half of the strength that you have! I do hope that the day will come when they relize that I didn't leave them.

I had to go for a walk also, that seems to be a fairly common thing for me to do. maybe thats why I BP ...again thanks to all for the advise & pep talk we'll see how this weekend goes?@#”

“All kinds of good advice here. Can you talk to your ex about not using you as a punishment without starting a battle? If so, see if you can covince her of how detrimental it is to the children. Never, EVER, say anything negative about the ex. Remember, whatever kids hear about either parent they apply to both and to themselves as well. If you can't get her to see reason then at least make sure the kids know that you love them and that it's not a punishment to you to have them there. Good luck.”

“I hope you all know how much I appreciate this!

:-)”

“Get them a cell phone with free in-state long distance. They're only $45 a month....
They can call you whenever, and only $45 a month!

Cheap compared to all the therapy they'll need later for not having access to their Dad”

“A prepaid calling card maybe, but cell phone - NO WAY - unless you find a plan that has blocks on it.

It's hard now muttley but if you stand firm with what you know is right, your kids'll be ok. My parents were divorced when I was 13, and to this day they STILL bad mouth each other (I'm 42 now) I've spent my life wishing they'd both just #&%!$ing grow up.”

“I agree with twigeater.

8)”

“I agree with Mike...”

“Twigeater. I always wonder if people who continue to fight like that still love each other. If not, why bother? I think a lot of divorced couples do not stop loving each other.”

“I agree with Nigal..

Don't have kids, therefore can't offer any advice.. but hang in there, and best of luck.”

“I believe that's true Dunadan, but my parents haven't spoken to each other once in 29 years - he won't go where she'll be, she won't go where he'll be. gawd! They bad mouth each other to ME - STILL - since I'm the only child who has contact with both. So much hurt and bitterness and anger, I just don't understand it.”

“Well, Smartarse (me) offers to repair the climbing wall in the gym. They had the gym painted last summer and they screwed off the holds and spray painted all the walls. The @$$holes never masked the holes and the nuts fall out when you try to screw the holds back in. We tried removing a side panel, but that was impossible.

I've had to keep driving into Montreal for pieces. Part of the solution will be to patch parts of the wall with plywood sheets with the holds and sling anchors in place. This and the Santanoni Range have been driving me crazy.

I primed the sheets in the stair well and to-day I started putting on the textured paint - a nightmare job in itself.

The janitor saw me and stopped to talk. We went through a lot of shyte at the same time and would talk about it.

His daughter has refused to speak to him for seven long years. A couple of weeks ago she got in touch with him. She has a little girl and a job. She has left her boyfriend and has a nice apartment. He waited to tell me because he couldn't believe it was real or would last. She invited him and his girl-friend to her place for dinner this week-end.

Well, we both got a little teary.

I told him and I believe that one day kids figure things out and that the joy after years of suffering is the great5est joy I have known.

BTW, my son has has a few bad episodes. Last summer I basically watched him dying. His mother actuallly got involved and did a great job helping me get him into the hospital and on welfare - I couldn't have done it without her. He is living in an nice apartment with his oldest friend, the son of a colleague as a room-mate. He turned 25 last Monday; I saw him the week-end before and his mother drove in from Ottawa to see him last week-end and I'll be seeing him agsin on Saturday.

My daughter is moving in with her boyfriend who has just bought a house. She is finishing her second year of university and has a bursary (partial scholarship). I can't wait to drive up to see her in a couple of weeks.

We live in a society that hates men. Every time you turn on the TV or go to the cinema, men are @$$holes and losers.

Keep the faith.

Just had to share.”

“I'm a little teary to-day.

My son - who has becomne a best friend - took me for dinner and to see Daniel Lanois (Bob Dylan - U2) and Emmy Lou Harris at the Montreal Jazz Festival last night. He has a new job and got a raise - it was my birthday present.

In two weeks I'll be driving to northern Ontario to get my daughter's things. She has just finished her degree in English (like her dad) and wants to teach ESL in Korea to pay off her student loans. I told her that the rules have changed here because of a major teacher shortage and that I can get her a teaching job here.

I don't know what she will do, but I want her to know that she has choices.

I drove up for her 25th birthday three weeks ago and will see her again in three weeks.

Last year she got a drive to Montreal with an English prof and a few kids who were going to a conference. It was my rugby club's annual dinner and they were to present me with a life-time award. She was brought up on the side of a rugby pitch and wanted to be there with me.

I think I've told this story before.

She came to my table and said - after dancing several times with a former student and rugby player - she had a ride home.

I was asleep when she got in.

The next day I drove her back to Montreal for her lift back and asked her how the rest of her evening went.

'Don't ask,' she said, 'Everybody kept shoving his finger in Simon's face to say, "She's Murdoch's daughter and you'd better be f*cking careful."'

I said, 'I'm probably the only father on this planet that has to apologise to his daughter for not getting laid on a Saturday night.' And we laughed.

My therapist was shocked when I told her this, but I explained that had I been a 'traditional' father I'd have lost my daughter forever.

Then my daughter said to me (I always say that I have no grey hair - only brown and white and every white one has a story - and my daughter says 'A lot of them belong to me.' and I answer, 'Yeah, a few belong to you.') She says:

'You know, dad? When I was off the rails and lost I always knew you were there. No matter what happened or what I did I knew your door would always be open and that you would never turn me away - I always knew that.'

I answered, 'Sweetheart, I don't know if I should laugh, cry, or kick your ass out of this car.'

And we both laughed.

All the critics here agree that the Daniel Lanois - Emmy lou Harris concert was the highlight of the festival (notwithstanding Paul Simon, Tony Bennet, BB King et al.).”

“I just wanted to remind you all that it is never 'over' - that as long as we are there for our kids good things must happen and that nothing is ever lost.

God bless and help us all.

Doug”

“...as long as we are there for our kids good things must happen and that nothing is ever lost...

Doug

here here Doug - you are wise.”

“:-)”

“Wonderful to hear from you, Poppa!

I often wonder what I would have done with three girls instead of three boys.

The music must have been great!

Here's hopin' I'll see you in a couple of weeks in Gorgeville.”

“Thanks Gremlin. I really needed to read that today. My youngest is off to college next month and the thought of not having any kids at home is killing me. I just don't know how to not be a mom every day. Hopefully my kids and I will still be close like you are with your children.

Emmy Lou Harris' last cd is great!”

“What's the title, CD?”

“I think it's "Stumble into Grace".”

“Thanks! Now if it sucks I'm going to blame you for that wasted money! ;-)”

“LOL. Well, there are a couple of songs that I don't like, but overall it's pretty good. I can send you my copy to listen to first if you like.”

“Saturday I had dinner at my ex's cottage with her boyfriend and my two kids.

My son has been stable for three years and was recruited from his old job to a new one (inside sales) - he has a nicer car than I and is doing really well.

My ex and I drove up to Sudbury, ON (450 miles each way) two weeks ago to move my daughter back to Ottawa to her mother's house where she will stay for the next couple of weeks.

My daughter has FINISHED HER DEGREE (in English and film)! She and her boyfriend are going to South Korea to teach English for a year. She wants to pay off her student loans and start her Master's.

Two years ago during an e-mail conversation she said how much she missed me and how much she'd like to go to the annual rugby banquet with me. She sent me another e-mail saying she could get a ride to Montreal with a prof and some students going to a conference.

I picked her up on Friday evening and drove her back to Montreal on Sunday. She said that during the years when things were crazy she always knew that I would be there for her and would never close the door. I said I didn't know whether to laugh, to cry, or kick her a$$ out the car and we both laughed.

I was refereeing in Montreal last Saturday when and my cell 'phone rang after the match while I was having a beer (it is rugby, after all). It was my daughter who said that her mother had driven her to our club's old boy match and that my son had driven down too.

I live about an hour souhtwest of Montreal on the NYS border and my ex's cottage is in Westville, NY. She spent a couple of days at my place.

I drove my daughter back to Ottawa yesterday, stayed over and stopped at the internet café in the village of Huntingdon on my way home to-day.

I'm a pretty happy guy.

Never lose hope.
Never give up.
Never close the door.

Fais qve dois (that will be on my headstone).

Doug”

“Fais qve dois? You know we don't speak Spanish!





(Great story though Doug, thanks for sharing.)”

“I think it would be best translated as 'Do what you ought', it's old French.”

“Nice Story.”

“Nice story in a rich and poignant thread.

I am reminded of an old Velvet Underground Song (What Goes On):

What goes on in your mind?
I think that I am falling down.
What goes on in your mind?
I think that I am upside down.
Baby, be good, do what you should, you know it will work alright.
Baby, be good, do what you should, you know it will be alright.
I'm going up, and I'm going down.
I'm going from side to side.
See the bells, up in the sky,
Somebody's cut their string in two.
Baby, be good, do what you should, you know it will work alright.
Baby, be good, do what you should, you know it will be alright.
One minute born, one minute doomed,
One minute up, one minute down.
What goes on in your mind?
I think that I am falling down.
Baby, be good, do what you should, you know it will work alright.
Baby, be good, do what you should, you know it will be alright.”

“Had dinner with my son last night. He is doing great, but working very hard.

My daughter is in Korea now and having a blast - BUT is a little surprised by just how hard teaching is. Her last e-mail said how much she missed me and how she wished I could still jump in the car and drive up to see her as I used to - I'd jump in on Saturday, get there 7½ hours later, we'd go out to dinner and I'd drive back Sunday - 1 500 km later.

I'm using her e-mails as texts for my students (I teach English as a second language in a French language school).

Doug”

“You know they say the worst fear a parent has is that when they are gone the children will not be able to survive.
I am dealing with a situation where one half of the team wanted to be the kids BEST BUDDY. I was left having to be the adult. Now after three years of watching my son sit in the back of squad cars, and having to literally order other law enforcement officers to do their job (it is tough on a patrolman when they are dealing with the son of a superior officer from another department) we are starting to see some growth.
Still taking it a day at a time, still finding out that there are little shocks everyday, but you know what? I truly believe that I am learning a little too.

Gremlin, good to hear it is going good. I have noted that the people in my life I truly miss are those who pushed me to exceed what I thought were my limits (if that makes sense). I see now that the people who demanded I perform better and pushed me to DO SOMETHING with my life were those who truly loved me.”

“Thanks, XL, that's why I still post occasionally on this thread.

I know some TTers are going through a rough time and instead of moralising I post to show that we go through, then come through some pretty rough situations.

I still believe that we can survive and still never close the door, or give up.

Take care,

Doug”

“Damn right XL.”

“I try really hard to never say anything bad about my ex-wife in front of/to my girls, and up till now I have never slipped, but the other day I did a little. Things have been building around my house and the pressure is on.

We were running late the other morning, and my oldest was helping her youngest sister pull her shorts up when the 8y/o comments "When are you going to learn to do this yourself kid?" To which I told her to remember that she is only 3, and has trouble sometimes. So the 8y/o says "well that's what mommy said last time we were over there."
I blew my stack, and shouted "we'll how would you mother know how a 3 year old is supposed to act? She hasn't been around one long enough to find out in forever!"
All three of them just stopped, frozen in their tracks, and I could see the little gears turning in their heads processing that one. Finally the 5y/o says "because mommy never sees us very much..."
I said I was sorry for saying that, and that I shouldn't have. We then went about our business.
Anyone divorced got any feed back on this one? It has really been bugging me. I have always said that I wouldn't be the bad guy, and would let them see the light on their own, and in their own time, but I slipped up on this one. Was it bad?”

“horrible, just horrible.

nah, if thats the worst youve slipped, id say youre doing great.”

“Well, It's that time again, and the girls are going to see their Mom for the night. Again, I'm wound tighter than a two dollar Rolex. I've promised my self I'm going camping tonight after I get off work but them being there, and me being completely cut off really nuts me up. I went through all the contact numbers with my oldest, and told her that she can call any of them if there is an emergency, and I know that any of them would be there in a heart beat if needed, but I still have trouble letting go. I know I need some time in the woods, but I'm not sure if I can make myself go tonight. I hate it when they are over there. I'm not sure what I'll do. I guess I'll find out when 7:00 rolls around.”