Death to the environment

“I got the sarcasm loud and clear (sarcasm rules!) it's just that you were, in a sarcastic way, doing what you claimed the other guy does. IMHO.”

“HyWay, your family history is misdirection.
Congratulations dude, you are a self-made man.


My point is that you parrot right-wing propaganda and that makes you look like a tool.”

“Wrong NonCon, I was making fun of the scapegoaters with my ridiculous "assertions".

Pointing out wrongs does not make one(me) a "wronger".

To answer some of that above misdirection......
I was raised by a very straight working class family that played by the rules and were not drunks and sponges.
That's not to say that I don't know anything about fukkups.”

“MarkO, so since you parrot left-wing proaganda, are you a tool?”

“Pointing out wrongs does not make one(me) a "wronger".
MarkO
8:08:38 AM
11/28/07



True. Okay, you get a pass---this time!”

“OH Marky Mark...see when you elect "DE RAY NAGIN" cause he be onna you..this is what you get...and apparently the people like him because even after his totally incomptent handling of the Disaster...THEY FREAKING REELECTED HIM!!!!

So for that I say..Natural Consequences. Worms gotta eat too”

“"Blame the victim" is an excellent strategy for those who lack a sense of true compassion and are so stuck in the our pride they can't see beyond their own failures as community people.

At the same time there are many who reject the that strategy who continue to support a system that feeds and rewards failure to take responsibility for their choices.

I will spare you all my resume "of suffering" but it is life experience as well as the evil "book learning" so many people seem to reject.”

“Marko, from my eyes you are easily the tool. I tell you what I tell you to show you that my knowledge of this topic comes from hands on experience and NOT what someone else has told me. I see it first hand. I see kids come to school with no desire to learn nor to better their situation at all.

Unlike you, I know what I am talking about. The City of New Orleans had hundreds of school and local transportation route buses that they had in their emergency plan to use to move the people out. They didn't use them AND even if they did its doubtful that very many people would have used them.

By the way, I wasn't raised by drunks and sponges, I just visited them when I was forced to. My dad was a enlisted military man in Korea who educated and worked his way to a Captaincy during the Vietnam war. My mom worked breakfast shifts in a restaurant.
last edited: 11/28/07 7:33:01 AM”

“MarkO, so since you parrot left-wing proaganda, are you a tool?”
Sarge
7:10:22 AM
11/28/07

Example, please.

Sure HyWay, there were plenty of buses or at least enough to make some kind of difference.
The local government messed up by not getting with it, but you are blaming the poor.

Which brings us to Point # 10......
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

You can call it left wing propaganda if you care to but I hardly see how studying fascist regimes constitutes left wing anything.

NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).”

“Sorry, I live in a Right to Work state, unions aren't a big issue in North Carolina. If you want a job, you don't have to join a union to get it it.

The problem you have is that you think I have contempt for the poor, but you are wrong. I have contempt for people who accept their lot and do nothing to change it. Unlike you I do not think people can't better themselves with hard work and personal effort. Every 6 yo child in America has access to public education. Stop telling them they can't succeed and start telling them they can. An education and desire for work is all thats needed to succeed in America.”

“Example, please.

I believe I heard recently that Maryland is now the wealthiest state per capita or something like that.

Maryland is also solidly Democratic.

Why DO you hate successs?”

“Example, please.

It is an interesting news story that is not entirely negative regarding an illegal immigrant who rather than being a heinous criminal is an angel of mercy in a tragic incident.
A bandito with a heart of gold?
Antonio Banderas can play the lead role.”

“"OH Marky Mark...see when you elect "DE RAY NAGIN" cause he be onna you.."
XLax

Your "Ebonics" references only cement your reputation as a racist honky.

".....you elect...." ??
I vote in the state of Maryland.

"....a system that feeds and rewards failure to take responsibility for their choices."
Revvum

I'll agree with that, Rev.

But there has got to be something besides continuing with a system so rife with failure and simply "cuttin' 'em loose".

Do we want to see shanty towns like Haiti and Brazil and all that sort of thing spawns.??

HyWay, I worked blue collar jobs most of my life with "the dirty people".
I've spent plenty of time in places from the D.C. ghetto neighborhoods to working with Northern New England hillbillies with sawdust in their hair and extreme lack of education.
In all those places I also saw examples of hard-working people with hearts of gold and of people who were pretty much no-good.


"I wasn't raised by drunks and sponges,..."

I didn't mean to imply that you were.
I just meant that I had no experience with people like that when I was growing up.


"I tell you what I tell you to show you that my knowledge of this topic comes from hands on experience and NOT what someone else has told me."

My knowledge of people comes from experience too, not from what someone told me.

Bubba, you don't know the places I've been and the people I've seen.”

“"Unlike you I do not think people can't better themselves with hard work and personal effort. Every 6 yo child in America has access to public education. Stop telling them they can't succeed and start telling them they can. An education and desire for work is all thats needed to succeed in America."
HyWay

There ya go, telling me what I think.
I don't believe any of what you say I believe above.
It's nothing more than simple-minded demonization of me by you right out of the right-wing pundit's play book.
Turn off the "Faux News" and listen to what people are actually saying.
last edited: 11/28/07 8:00:43 AM”

“You know DR. Mengele studied many of the famous Physicians in history...but that didn't make him all that FREAKING great at remembering the First Law of Medicine (LOL)...

Marky mark..the question is, "what responsibility if ANY did the Leeches in N.O. Have for their place in the disaster.

We can look at it from the LIBBIE point of view where no one is reponsible unless they are successful then they should have everything taken away and pure victimhood is rewarded. Or we can see what positions they were in.

1. They were in a lifestyle of repeated failure and continuing activity that results in failure. Refusal to take responsibility for ANYTHING they did, or had done. They sat and waited for the First Tuesday of the Month for the "Free Money" to arrive. Coruption was accepted like illegitimacy, and illiteracy. I have to deal with some 100 families from that area (oh actually the number is down to the low 60's now the rest eventually ending up being evicted as major family members went to the OTHER form of Public Housing). The running line among them seems to be "We be victims...where my new house."

2. They elected and supported a mayor who by all accounts had overseen the squandering of Millions of Dollars intended for the Levees and who was more or less looking for a way to blame the Other Political Parties even if he had to drown a few supporters in the process.

3. The Hurricane did not sneak up on the people. They had plenty of warning...the truth is they wanted someone to come, take em by the hand and carry their fat asses to the bus to new free money.

4. The fact is they are victims, meaning you can control them with MONEY and libbies like that. It means every few years you can be assured of being reelected by Leeches who you control....slightly above starvation, like little slaves.”

“I believe I heard recently that Maryland is now the wealthiest state per capita or something like that.

Maryland is also solidly Democratic.

Why DO you hate successs?”
Sarge
8:46:20 AM
11/28/07

It is an interesting news story that is not entirely negative regarding an illegal immigrant who rather than being a heinous criminal is an angel of mercy in a tragic incident.
A bandito with a heart of gold?
Antonio Banderas can play the lead role.”
Sarge
8:47:52 AM
11/28/07

Those are statements of fact and hardly any sort of "propaganda".......with a little humor thrown in for free, of course.

Keep trollin', ya BIG DUMMY.
last edited: 11/28/07 7:58:06 AM”

“MarkO would treat drunks and sponges poorly! Put him on ignore Hyway!!”

“MarkO, I have never seen you say how the poor can become unpoor that doesn't involve action on someone else's part. Everything you say makes them out to be helpless and helplessly stuck in their situation. Nothing is ever their fault and they have no possible way to make things better for themselves unless someone else does it for them.

If you were to be taken to a city you have never lived, left without money and cut off from every contact you know - family, friends, etc? - would you starve to death and/or go on welfare? Or would you find a way to better your situation?”

“The illegal alien is an actual angel of mercy, or is that your opinion?”

“Then you have people who appear to walk the walk, like Governor Bob Riley of Alabama.

    Pick your own source.”

“Hey, I think we should cut taxes on everyone. Does that mean I walk even better? Once again, you are telling me that people can't become less poor unless they get this tax change?”

“"....a system that feeds and rewards failure to take responsibility for their choices."
Revvum

I'll agree with that, Rev.

But there has got to be something besides continuing with a system so rife with failure and simply "cuttin' 'em loose".

Marko... I totally agree... there is something besides that. Of course you and Hyway would both be skeptical of the most effective alternative, so I'll not elaborate further and spare this thread the inevitable degradation the alternative would bring.”

“cool!”

“For the record, I have never proposed "cutting them loose". I say put time restraints on welfare. It shouldn't be a life sentence that you pass on to your kids. I am saying offer aid where its needed and only for a specified period of time. Unemployment isn't offered for life. Its given for a certain number of weeks and then you lose it. Welfare should work like that.

To bring this back to the environment, I will say that on some other thread I discussed a system that requires every citizen (with exceptions for special circumstances) should serve his civic duty in either the military or a military like program that domestic in nature - wildlife rescues, parks adminstration, government operations, etc. The money that we currently spend on the welfare state will more than pay for that.
last edited: 11/28/07 8:42:04 AM”

“Welfare should not work that way. If you NEED it (physical/mental need), then you get it. If you want it, but you don't NEED it, you don't get it. Simple. You're in it for life unless you get cured.”

“You can not fight the bell curve.Infact an old tale is: The man who lies close to the summit of the bell curve can see both shoulders.
last edited: 11/28/07 8:50:10 AM”

“Rev, I don't see how this thread could possibly be degraded further,   LOL

It seems that some people don't want to talk about the environment.  Perhaps it's too painful a subject.”

“Tilt....

Oh it is easy to imagine how much further this thread could degrade. hehehe...”

“The language filter catches some of that, though ----”

“Dang HyWay, what this country needs is to do what ever it takes to see to it that generations of kids move up and move on.

Don't you be tellin' me that I want to keep anyone in some kinda "government slavery", that's pure nonsense.

When I was a kid you didn't have to go far to find a construction site and a summer job.

Young men have a natural sense of competition and I remember humpin' with shovels and blocks and mud and lumber so's the other kids wouldn't show me up.

Maybe it's the era I came from but most of us guys took pride in not only keeping up with the others but staying fit too.
Notice that in movies from the '70s the boys not only had their drawers pulled up but that most of us were quite trim, too.

Yeah, that world is long gone but the work is still out there and our young people are not gettin' with it.

What to do?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Require job sites to hire only citizens and make it stick?
Recruit kids(round 'em up) and shove their noses to the grindstone?

Make a list and bug the hell out of our legislators?
...............if we can get their attention away from lobbyists waving cash in their noses.

Oh yeah, death to the environment!!!”

“It seems that some people don't want to talk about the environment. Perhaps it's too painful a subject.”
Tilt
10:50:11 AM
11/28/07


Okay, so talk about it.

PS: By "talk about it" do you mean cite some source that claims that man-made global warming is real and then call everyone who doesn't believe it a moron or pro-pollution and anti-environment?”

“Please, separate the Gorebal warning from the facts of polution and man generated warming.”

“If this climate change/global warming thing turns out to be true all you deniers can each send your apologies written on a twenty dollar bill.


Uh................to me, that is.
last edited: 11/28/07 10:09:41 AM”

“Seriously - if the biggest loudspeakers for the GW sky is falling cause are also the biggest instigators, why should we believe them? Plus, Al Gore lied in his movie multiple times. That's a fact.”

“We have to set a timeframe MarkO because I want the twenties if I'm right!”

“Why would I waste my time?

The record is there for anyone to see.”

“"Climate change" is inevitable. Why is it taking people so much by surprise? Humans caused it, in the long run. The diagnosis of the problem is nothing new.”

“
Why would I waste my time?

The record is there for anyone to see.”
Tilt
12:09:42 PM
11/28/07






Yep, it is---just as I said it was.
last edited: 11/28/07 10:10:57 AM”

“Noncon - Gore said 10 years. Rush has a countdown on his website.”

“I'll see your time frame and raise you a future draft pick.”

“10 years??? I think I'm going to be about 95 by then!”

“If you get your science from Rush Limbaugh you'll be sorry later.”

“Rush has a countdown on his website. One libby, two libby, three libby, fore libby - oh it still hit him, five libby, six...more.”

“Why would I waste my time?

The record is there for anyone to see. - Tilt

Translation: "Why would you want me to waste your time? I'm uninformed and ineloquent."”

“Cuz now I'm all confused and stuff.



It seems that some people don't want to talk about the environment. Perhaps it's too painful a subject.”
Tilt
10:50:11 AM
11/28/07

____________________________________________

Okay, so talk about it.

PS: By "talk about it" do you mean cite some source that claims that man-made global warming is real and then call everyone who doesn't believe it a moron or pro-pollution and anti-environment?”
Nonconformist
11:46:04 AM
11/28/07
ignore this user


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Why would I waste my time?

The record is there for anyone to see.”
Tilt
12:09:42 PM
11/28/07”

“With you?

No.”

“With who then? Only those "open-minded" people who agree with you? You really need that kind of validation in your life?”

“Owned.”

“Guys...Manmade Global Warming is a RELIGION it meets all the standards for a religion. There are WAAAY too many scientists who are saying Man Made Global Warming is crap. There are way to many examples where there have been climate change over the life of the EARTH that we can document NO human activity. Plus we have yet to have a single testable study that can predict the warming or the effect.

The Weather Service can't get the damn weather right one week ahead of time....but we want them to guess 20 years in the future. The real scary truth is that the Highchurch of Global Climate Change is the last bastion of the failed Socialists. Their intention (reference UN activity) is to tax..>I.E. Steal from the successful to set up a world wide Welfare game.

The best part is even our Poorest live better than most of the world's middle class..”

“This from a fundaMENTAList kook who throws out conspiracy theories and lame references to WWII.”