Who believes in Global Warming?

“WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Ocean and so-called greenhouse gas levels are rising faster than they have for thousands of years, according to two reports published on Thursday that are likely to fuel debate on global warming.

One study found the Earth's ocean levels have risen twice as fast in the past 150 years, signaling the impact of human activity on temperatures worldwide, researchers said in the journal Science.


link”

“Dang that human industrial pollution from 150 years ago!

(yeah right)

I think they disproved their own theory right there.”

“So, am I to assume that you never heard of a little thing called the Industrial Revolution?

150 years ago makes pretty good sense if you take that into account.”

“If we have to reduce "greenhouse gas emmissions" to pre-150 yr ago levels, then you might as well just forget it folks. Lost cause.”

“So, am I to assume that you never heard of a little thing called the Industrial Revolution?

Blasted spinning wheels and steam engines! They're ruining the environment I tell ya!”

“Science v. blind faith
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Ocean and so-called greenhouse gas levels are rising faster than they have for thousands of years, according to two reports published on Thursday that are likely to fuel debate on global warming.

Another example. They don't know for a Fact what happened thousand of years ago. Was someone able to monitor these gases back then. :)”

“For those who haven't heard:

The next Ice-Age began back in about the year 1300 c.e., promptly devasted crop yields in Europe and brought on many plagues

and was really getting into full swing by the early 1800's

at which times the first real effects of the 'industiral revolution', mainly burning much coal, overcame the cooling and has continued to do so to this day

but the reasons for a soon drastic cooling are still here

and will soon overwhelm humanities best efforts to burn up the world.
last edited: 11/25/05 9:21:42 PM”

“The human created warming thus far is next to nothing.

The sun has gone through a hot period and has had a far greater affect on this planet, and our sibling planets, than man has.”

“And even if the case was cast-iron there would still be people their head in the sand. There are many people out there, particularly Americans on the right side of things, who have taken upon themselves to try and pull down the theory of evolution, which anyone clear thinking person can see with their own eyes.
What makes you think people like this are capable of looking at the evidence of a human role in climate change and come up with a rational view on the subject?”
Y2
3:07:19 PM
11/23/05


Y2, the people who do not believe in evolution and human influenced climate change amaze me. They are the same people who believe that Iraq played a part in 9-11 and that Iraq held WMD's. They believe the political and media driven horsechit and refuse to believe what is before their very eyes. What amazes me even more is that the population of our country has been dumbed down to the point that they are the majority.
last edited: 11/26/05 6:18:24 AM”

“How can anyone think that human effects on the environment are minimal.

Look around:

About half of the petroleum that took maybe one billion years to form so locking up solar energy has now been burned in the last 80 years.

With coal, less than half has been burned yet but we are working on it.

As well, a great percentage of the world is now plowed annually or covered with concrete, asphalt, rooftops, etc.

all this and more making a signifigant difference at the margin

which is all it takes in a well buffered system as the world generally is

to yield drastic results.”

“Blasted spinning wheels and steam engines! They're ruining the environment I tell ya!”
Sarge
7:20:01 PM
11/25/05

Actually, there was a lot of particulate matter and the air got extremely dirty in some areas due to coal usage. Ever heard the story of the moths that became dark during the industrial revolution and then lightened up as the air got cleaner?”

“Yes pedxing - but the peppered moth / pollution correlation is unproven, and highly disputed. The original study on this has been shown to be full of error.”

“I am a believer. the peppered moth study has errors but so do most studies. we are not perfect, or is the planet. We DO have finite resources and we DO seem to be using them faster than they can handle and that DOES seem to be contributing to the pace of global warming. i'm a believer. . .”

“"About half of the petroleum that took maybe one billion years to form so locking up solar energy has now been burned in the last 80 years."

The "experts" have told us several times that we are about out of oil and the "experts" have been wrong every time.

"What amazes me even more is that the population of our country has been dumbed down to the point that they are the majority."

Just because someone does not believe in your point of view does make make them dumb. Typical liberalism.”

“So, igeils, do you think less or far less than half of the original exploitable petroleum has been produced and used in the last 80 years?
last edited: 11/26/05 7:24:02 PM”

“lonesurveyor - Regardless of the percentage used, alternative sources are on their way. As prices go up b/c of less available resources, the move will go quicker. End of story. Everybody is happy. No falling sky. The earth will recover. It always does. We're not going to turn into Venus, and if we do, it's b/c of the sun's heat, not our burning of fuels.”

“Actually Sarge, my reference to the moth study was to remind you of how darkened the countryside had become due to coal dust - how significant pollution was in the industrial revolution - not to start an evolution or natural selection debate.

On the other hand, the evidence on the Peppered Moth has really held up very well. Research needs to be done and re-done in the course of science. Most studies don't completely answer the questions they target.

Here is one link on the subject:

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/Moths/moths.html


Of course, the study only illustrates natural selection, and is not evidence of evolution (i.e. speciation through natural selection).
last edited: 11/26/05 7:32:36 PM”

“jgeils, you anounce that scientists believed the earth is flat and then you complain about dumb liberals?

Of course prognostication is a risky business and trends often change. This is no reason not to try to figure out what the future will be like and to do something about it.”

“On the other hand, the evidence on the Peppered Moth has really held up very well.

I had already read that link that you posted. If anything, it says we do not know if there was a correlation. It's not about an evolution debate. It's about if the pollution was so bad that a certain species thrived. The bottom line is they do not know, and the original study was obviously flawed. So, saying it's so doesn't cut it. Chill out with the evolution debate thing. It never even occured to me about the evolution side of this. It's irrelevant. What matters is did one thrive due to pollution. Answer: inconclusive”

“PS pedxing - Your patronizing "read this so you'll be as smart as me" crap is getting so old. Give it a rest.”

“No one is suggesting the world's atmosphere is going to become like that of the planet Venus which averages 700 to 900 degrees farenheit in temperature

but a one percent change in that direction, namely about a 6 degree rise in this world's atmosphere will be hostile towards life here

and might would happen anyhow from natural cycles just before the 'impending Ice-Age'.

Its likely beyond people to make a difference one way ot the other anyhow.”

“So Jgeils, which part of this research do you disagree with?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051125/NEWS07/511250505/1009/NEWS07

And sure, people who have different views are not necessarily dumb, but when they choose to ingore things because they don't suit their world view, then what does that make them?

If people of a certain view accept that global warming is taking place, then that would mean that some action might need to be taken. That action likely imvolves some form of government legislation, restricting power station emissions or manatory fuel economy standards on cars - things that no 'right-thinking' adovcate could agree to. It would also involve criticizing the stance taken by the present administration. To claim there's no problem means you don't have to admit to failing to address it.

So the easiest thing to do, rather than try to find the right solution to the problem, is to pretend the problem doesn't exist at all - and start trying to portray any evidence contrary to your politcal view as coming from extremists. (As a comparison on a different subject look at how they tried to associate the hawkish Murtha with Michael Moore in the past week or so).

The same is happening here. Look at one of the strogest voices in the head-in-the-sand crew, Michael Crichton. He writes a book and even some 'non-fiction' work potraying 'environmentalists' and extremist wackos, whereas in reality, all but a tiny number are more likely to be people who love the beauty of the planet and are trying to do something to help stop it being abused. This could be a couple trying to make their homes more energy efficient, a guy riding his bike to work, or a housewife recycling her family's trash.
It could also be a guy living in alaska who can feel the permafrost melting beneath his feet, or a fisherman who sees his cold-water catch moving further north.

What it's not likely to be is a guy who ignores anything that is happening in the world unless it's happening in his back yard.

Sure, I'd like the scientists to be wrong. No problem is a good thing. But I'd rather they be wrong and the effort to clean things up be wasted, than for them to be right, and for the world to have ignored the warnings. Even if they are wrong is limiting the pollutants put into the atmosphere such a bad mistake to make?”

“And sure, people who have different views are not necessarily dumb, but when they choose to ingore things because they don't suit their world view, then what does that make them?

That's the exact same argument Christians make of non-Christians.”

“

"If people of a certain view accept that global warming is taking place, then that would mean that some action might need to be taken."
Y2

Why? Perhaps no action needs to be taken. Perhaps your conclusion has been substanciated elsewhere, but I don't see that it follows here. The only action I can see might be to investigate possible consequences of no action, followed by an investigation of possible actions, if needed, and their consequences.”

“Sarge scroll to your post of "6:50:58 PM
11/25/05" to see where a superior tone started in this discussion thread.

I don't think providing a link to a supporting statement is patronizing, it's offering back up. You've demanded supporting evidence before - no need to get ornery when it's offered.”

“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2545759.stm

I sure am glad we're using more coal lately.
last edited: 11/26/05 10:14:40 PM”

“jees, my typing in that post, I should lay off the scotch ;o)”

“I didn't call anyone dumb. And as far as how much of the resources have been used, I have not a clue. All I know is the experts have been wrong in the past about how much oil was left so why should I believe them now?”

“pedxing -

Pick one:

a) Two wrongs make a right.
b) You were "getting me back from 2 days ago when I wasn't talking to you.
c) You exude patronizing behavior on a regular basis and don't even realize it even though you are told over and over because your superiority complex has gotten the better of you.

Asking somebody for supporting evidence is different than trying to "educate" somebody who needs to "catch up" to you. This isn't the first time, second time, or even 10th time you have done that.

Imagine if I had said, "Here pedxing, read up on the subject with this general link which has nothing specific to do with anything I've said, and get back to me."

never mind - you just don't get it”

“deadm-untainp-ak, maybe pedxing seems to have a superiority complex to you because he IS superior to you.

i dont think his posts seem patronizing at all (it is, after all, a subjective opinion. can a subjective opinion be wrong? im sure youre going to tell me mine is) hes just willing to go toe to toe with you and you just cant stand it

oh, and ditto all that for pitts/jimmysan”

“I knew you were going to jump in.

Your response demonstrates you don't even understand what we're talking about. Nobody was discussing anybody's subjective opinions.

typical crash bang style ... crashing on in all loud and stuff ... not paying attention to nothing no how”

“"What amazes me even more is that the population of our country has been dumbed down to the point that they are the majority."

jgeils
7:15:40 PM
11/26/05

This explains my theory on the Bush re-election word for word! I'm glad we can agree on something during the Thanksgiving Holiday jgeils!”

“ps crash - I don't know who made you the hall monitor, but if you'll notice, you seem to think your my mommy. That's sass's job (to think she's my mommy). Please don't interfere with her job. It makes her feel important. (just kidding sass, don't get your boofie mommy hair in a bunch)”

“"Nobody was discussing anybody's subjective opinions"

actually, you were when you called ped "patronizing"

nice to see trolls-rge is back”

“Ok, now that you've narrowed down where you got the "subjective opinions" thing, you have really demonstrated that you didn't follow along at all.

(if you want to prove me wrong, just tell us exactly which "subjective opinion" of his I had an issue with) None? Correct. My issue is with him doleing out advice as to what I should read to educate myself.

I'm not trolling. Just the opposite. I'm asking pedxing to have a normal conversation. If anybody is trolling here it's you.
last edited: 11/26/05 11:53:10 PM”

“wood eye trawl ewe? ~makes innocent eyes~

so let me get this straight: if people dont back up their claims, you give them a hard time, and if they do back up their claims, you give them a hard time. makes perfect sense”

“ok, I'll take the troll-bait ...

That's the point. pedxing wasn't backing up anything. He was just providing me a general link on a subject we were discussing, as if I knew nothing about it. He wasn't saying "Hey, my point is proven HERE." or "This guy backs up my point HERE." ... he was just saying "Hey Sarge, read this general link about the subject." That's not backing up a claim.

PS - If you would have read what I wrote earlier, you could have saved us some time. Then again, you are trolling, so there is not point.
last edited: 11/27/05 12:00:00 AM”

“(if you want to prove me wrong, just tell us exactly which "subjective opinion" of his I had an issue with) None? Correct

nice strawman

no, i was only talking about your subjective opinion

btw, youre free to jump off this thread degeneration train at any time. i hope you dont anytime soon, for you amuse me :-)”

“no, i was only talking about your subjective opinion

Well, since that has no contextual relevance to our conversation whatsoever, I'm going to assume you've gone off the trolling deep-end and have lost total control.”

“by the way - Hey, did you quit your job to hike the AT, or what? Did the boss give you a leave of absense? Just curious since it's such a big step to take off that much time.”

“ok, granted, peds link was more along the lines of "general info" than actual support. but i still dont think hes patronizing

i got approximately $15,000 buyout from verizon to quit.”

“i got approximately $15,000 buyout from verizon to quit

What does that mean?”

“Also, don't you think this picture of Clooney looks like the gay guy who won the first Survivor?

”

“company heads decided we had too many employees and offered to pay people to quit. but i think they way underestimated how many would take the offer, and probably screwed themselves.”

“hey, richard hatch won the first survivor, and there is a "hatch" on the "lost" island. coincidence?”

“Oh.

Last thing before bed.

Here's a picture of Richard Hatch.




And here is another guy named Richard Hatch:

”

“It never ceases to amaze me that anyone in thier right mind would venture to argue with the douchbag who takes the shape of sarge on this board.”

“Buddha Bear - You said your lawyer was going to contact me. What happened there big boy? You weren't lying were you? I'm still waiting.

(Buddha Bear, you'd be "amazed" what people say about you behind your back.)”

“it beats hitting yourself in the groin with a hammer. barely”

“BB knows what we think of him.”