Who believes in Global Warming?

“A few ice fishing cabins sank or drifted away when the river ice melted yesterday. Unheard off in mid-January.
Pretty soon we'll be crawling on all fours since we won't be able to stand up, because the air will be so polluted.”

“There really isn’t concrete evidence that shows that humans are causing global warming, but there also isn’t concrete evidence showing that humans aren't causing it. My main point is that we, as a race, should be cautious with our actions when they potentially could alter our environment.”
lumberzac

makes sense to me”

“The Russians, the Indians, the Japanese, now the Czechs! The freezing is out of hand!!

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/23/060123162049.ytw6iw9u.html

Temperatures hit record lows in some parts of the Czech Republic on Sunday night, with minus 30 Celsius registered in the north of the country. The cold snap killed at least two homeless people in the capital at the weekend, pushing the winter death toll to at least 12, according to local press reports.”

“More for the list:

baltics to the balkans

Germany, Poland, Turkey

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/23012006/323/eastern-europe-freezes-killer-cold.html

Eastern Europe in killer cold.”

“Extreme weather events are part of the predictions. The don't prove anything in and of themselves though. Minnesota melting and Siberian cold spreading east is not a sign that the planet isn't warming.”

“Y2 - Make sure you post that when people post the opposing position on here too, ok buddy? I tried, but it doesn't work, so I tried this approach. Maybe you could do it? Will you do it Y2? I didn't think so.”

“The union guys were working on that solar heating system.”

“must be on strike or a break or something : )”

“Melbourne, Florida:
"It's been a mild winter so far. Is White Bear Lake safe for ice fishermen to drive on it?"

White Bear Lake, Minnesota:
"Very few people are driving on the lake, and there are very few fishhouses out there. Most park at lakeside, and hike out, dragging a sled with their fishing stuff. It's been the warmest January in 100 years; very strange."

Note:
White Bear Lake is usually frozen enough for cars to drive safely on it 1-2 weeks prior to Christmas. And it normally has a lot of fish houses and vehicle traffic.
last edited: 1/29/06 6:55:33 AM”

“Flagstaff, Arizona so far this winter has received less than 2" of snow, normally to this date would have received 40-50"

although had about 80" last year by this time - as reportd by The Weather Channel a few minutes ago

and Lubbock, Texas, zero rain in over 100 days

and January here in WNC has been like a cool early April.
last edited: 1/29/06 7:40:58 AM”

“Guys, Y2 is about to chime in here ...

_____________________


“Extreme weather events are part of the predictions. The don't prove anything in and of themselves though. Minnesota melting and Siberian cold spreading east is not a sign that the planet isn't warming.”
Y2
8:02:47 PM
1/23/06


“Y2 - Make sure you post that when people post the opposing position on here too, ok buddy? I tried, but it doesn't work, so I tried this approach. Maybe you could do it? Will you do it Y2? I didn't think so.”
Sarge
8:06:41 PM
1/23/06


last edited: 1/29/06 7:49:49 AM”

“Let's just hold on a bit so he can refute your points ...”

“How muich longer do I have to hold? How long is a "bit?"

---

two bits,
four bits
six bits
a dollar.
Let's hold until
the guy hollars!
last edited: 1/29/06 8:30:23 AM”

“Put it this way. Don't hold your breath.”

“two bits = .25 cents.”

“So , then, what's a bit "pusher"?”

“.25 cents = a quarter

a quarter = cocaine measurement

bitpusher ... well ... you decide.”

“If there is global warming happening, I'm blaming it on the Nuclear Plant protesters.

http://www.nirs.org/press/01-26-2006/1

"Alliance for Nuclear Accountability, the Arms Control Association, the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, Citizen Alert, Concerned Citizens for Nuclear Safety, Fernald Residents for Environmental Safety & Health, Georgians Against Nuclear Energy, GRACE Public Fund, Greenpeace USA, Steven and Michele Kirsch Foundation, Natural Resources Defense Council, Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, Nuclear Information and Resource Service, Nuclear Watch of New Mexico, Nukewatch, Peace Action, Peace Farm, Physicians for Social Responsibility, Physicians for Social Responsibility -Wisconsin, Public Citizen, U.S. Public Interest Research Group, Snake River Alliance, Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, Southwest Research and Information Center, Union of Concerned Scientists, Women's Actions for New Directions, and the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom."”

“After the weather we've been having in Iowa I'm starting to believe.”

“The pines around here are pollinating already. My black car now looks green.”

“flasher - move to Russia, India, Japan, etc. They are freezing their butts off.”

“Hurricanes Shape New Natural Order
Sunday, January 29, 2006
OVER THE NORTHERN GULF COAST - Last year's record hurricane season didn't just change life for humans. It changed nature, too.

Everywhere scientists look, they see disrupted patterns in and along the Gulf of Mexico. Coral reefs, flocks of sea birds, crab- and shrimp-filled meadows and dune-crowned beaches were wrapped up in - and altered by - the force of hurricanes Katrina, Rita and Dennis.

"Nothing's been like this," said Abby Sallenger, a U.S. Geological Survey oceanographer, during a recent flight over the northern Gulf Coast to study shoreline changes.

For him, the changes are mind-boggling: Some barrier islands are nearly gone; on others, beaches are scattered like bags of dropped flour.

Hurricanes have been kneading the Gulf Coast like putty for eons, carving out inlets and bays, creating beaches and altering plant and animal life - but up to now, the natural world has largely been able to rebound. Trees, marine life and shoreline features tourists and anglers enjoyed in recent years were largely the same types as those 17th century buccaneers and explorers encountered.

But scientists say the future could be different. Nature might not be able to rebound so quickly. The reason: the human factor.

"Natural systems are resilient and bounce back," said Susan Cutter, a geographer with the University of South Carolina. "The problem is when we try to control nature, rather than letting her do what she does."

The seas are rising, the planet is getting hotter and commercial and residential development is snowballing. Add those factors to a predicted increase in nasty hurricanes and what results is a recipe for potentially serious natural degradation, some say.

"It may bring about a situation (in which) the change is so rapid, it's something that's very different from what the ecosystem experienced over the last three, four thousand years," said Kam-biu Liu, a Louisiana State University professor and hurricane paleoscientist. "We may be losing part of our beaches, we may lose our coastal wetlands, and our coastal forests may change permanently to a different kind of ecosystem."

Between 2004 and 2005, "we've basically demolished our coastline from Galveston (Texas) to Panama City, Fla.," said Barry Keim, the state climatologist in Louisiana. "It's getting to the point that we might have to rethink what our coastal map looks like."

The Gulf, scientists say, won't turn into an environmental wasteland, but it could be less rich in flora and fauna.

Surveys of the washed out Chandeleur Islands, an arc of barrier islands off the coast of Louisiana, found nesting grounds for brown pelicans, royal terns, sandwich terns and black skimmers gone.

"Hopefully the birds will be resilient enough to move to other areas," said Tom Hess, a biologist with the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries. "We will have to see."

Salt water spread by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita killed marsh grasses across the Louisiana coast, leaving little left to eat for Louisiana's most hunted bird - the duck.

"Most of the marsh where that salt water sat for a long time looks dead. It looks like it is does extremely late in the winter and you've had several extreme frosts," said Robert Helm, a state waterfowl biologist. "Where we found birds, they seemed to be concentrated in the habitat that was not impacted by the storm."

Duck hunters ask themselves: If Louisiana's abundant wetlands keep getting knocked out, will the ducks head to greener fields?

"You don't go to the restaurant, find it empty, and hang around," said Charlie Smith, a duck hunter.

Katrina and Rita didn't only kill plants. They annihilated more than 100 square miles of wetlands in Louisiana alone, scattering huge chunks of soft marshy earth.

"The hurricanes may have changed habitat in ways that we have not even begun to assess," said Harriet Perry, a fishery expert with the University of Southern Mississippi.

A lot of things are happening under the water, too.

With their towering waves - well over 50 feet high during Katrina - hurricanes move huge volumes of mud and sediment on the ocean bottom, burying clam and oyster beds and seagrass meadows where crabs, shrimps and fish hide and feed. Can the sea plants spring back?

"It depends on the light penetration, how deep they are buried, and factors like that," said John Dindo, a marine scientist and assistant director of the Dauphin Island Sea Lab in Alabama.

Farther out, where the continental shelf drops off, the wild seas kicked up by the hurricanes damaged the Gulf's coral reefs.

After Rita's 30-plus-foot waves, surveys of the coral at the Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary 100 miles off the coast of Louisiana and Texas showed damage to about 5 percent of the reef. Brain and star coral was toppled and smashed into other coral heads. About 3 feet of sand was dispersed on sand flats in the reef where trigger fish and queen conch burrow and nest.

Also, a large plume of contaminated runoff from the mainland's towns and industries befouled the reef for a couple of days, said G.P. Schmahl, the sanctuary's manager.

Coral reefs are resilient, for the most part, but like much else in nature along the Gulf Coast they could be devastated by an onslaught of powerful hurricanes and warming seas. A coral reef near Jamaica, for example, was wiped out by Hurricane Allen in 1980, Schmahl said.

"If they're hit continually with a whole variety of stressors they may not be able to recover, and that's the big concern right now," he said.

Among fish, species shift locations when runoff from towns, septic systems and farms causes algae blooms or storms change salinity levels in coastal bays and channels. Still, not all changes are detrimental: When Gulf commercial and recreational fishermen are knocked out of the water in storms, overfished species like the red snapper get some breathing room.

Nor are the effects confined to the water or the shoreline. Go inland, and millions of trees - cypress, gum, pine, oak - were snapped like toothpicks. Wild fires fueled by fallen timber break out and kill even more trees. And plant diseases like citrus canker and soybean rust can be spread by hurricanes from one region to the next.

The Gulf is in the midst of flux - heavily developed, heavily fished and buffeted by climate change and storms. It's becoming a perfect place for oceanographers, marine biologists, geologists and geographers to study, said Steven F. DiMarco, an ocean researcher Texas A&M University.

"I think," he said, "people are looking to the Gulf of Mexico ever more as a microcosm of the world."


And then in New York TImes another lead story on Global Warming.

And then today Blair is singing about global warming.

In addition to elevated temps and disrupted ecosystems in the gulf of mexico... we have a lot of our own hot air on the issue.

Planet warming is real. Media frenzy is hyped.”

“Clinton: Climate change is the world's biggest worry
By DAN PERRY
Associated Press Writer

January 28, 2006, 2:00 PM EST

DAVOS, Switzerland -- Former U.S. President Bill Clinton told corporate chieftains and political bigwigs Saturday that climate change was the world's biggest problem _ followed by global inequality and the "apparently irreconcilable" religious and cultural differences behind terrorism.

Clinton's comments provided something a freewheeling and philosophical finale _ ahead of Sunday's formal wrap-up _ to several days of high-powered discourse on the state of the world, and the mostly admiring audience seemed to hang on his every word.

"First, I worry about climate change," Clinton said in an onstage conversation with the founder of the World Economic Forum. "It's the only thing that I believe has the power to fundamentally end the march of civilization as we know it, and make a lot of the other efforts that we're making irrelevant and impossible."

Clinton called for "a serious global effort to develop a clean energy future" to avoid the onset of another ice age.

He also said the current global system "works to aggravate rather than ameliorate inequality" between and within nations _ including in the United States, where he lamented the "growing concentration of wealth at the top," alongside stagnation for the middle classes and rising poverty.

"I don't think we've found the way to promote economic and political integration in a manner that benefits the vast majority of the people in all societies and makes them feel that they are benefited by it," he said. "Voters usually see ... issues from the prism of their own experience."

Clinton won frequent enthusiastic applause _ not a common situation at the annual gathering in the Swiss Alps _ for articulating a global vision more conciliatory and inclusive than the one many of the assembled tend to associate with U.S. politics.

People around the world "basically want to know that we're on their side, that we wish them well, that we want the best for them, that we're pulling for them," he said.

Clinton called on current world leaders to seek ways of easing the "apparently irreconcilable religious and cultural differences in the world, that are manifest most stunningly in headlines about terrorist actions but really go far beyond that."

"You really can't have a global economy or a global society or a global approach to health and other things unless there is some sense of global community."

Former Australian foreign minister Gareth Evans was listening. "He's a great performer and then he's got the greatest convening power of anyone now in the world, I think, and the greatest capacity to articulate things that matter," said Evans, who now heads the International Crisis Group, a think tank.

Clinton also dispensed advice on the issues of the day.

In Iraq, he said, the United States should not "give this thing up and say it can't work," but should consider "drawing down some of our troops and reconfiguring their components, trying to increase the special forces (and) putting them in places where they're not quite as vulnerable."

Iran, he argued, must not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons, and neither economic sanctions nor "any other option" should be ruled out as ways of preventing this. But he warned there would be "an enormous political price to pay if the global community ... looked like they went to force before everything else has been exhausted."

Clinton also suggested the West should be more open to eventual dialogue with Hamas, the radical Palestinian group whose election victory stunned the world this week and clouded the prospects of any resolution to the conflict with Israel.

"One of the politically correct things in American politics ... is we just don't talk to some people that we don't like, particularly if they ever killed anybody in a way that we hate," he said. "I do think that if you've got enough self-confidence in who you are and what you believe in, you ought not to be scared to talk to anybody."

"You've got to find a way to at least open doors ... and I don't see how we can do it without more contact," he said. Hamas might "acquire a greater sense of responsibility, and as they do we have to be willing to act on that."

Klaus Schwab, the forum's founder and organizer, asked Clinton to advise the next U.S. president, noting that this person might either be married to Clinton or listening in the audience _ an apparent reference to Sen. John McCain, seated in the first row along with Microsoft's Bill Gates and other invitees.

"In this world full of culturally charged issues I think we should make it clear that Senator McCain and I are not married," Clinton joked as the audience burst into laughter.

The comment earned Clinton a slap on the back from the Arizona Republican, who fought a crowd to get to the former president after the event.

"Interesting talk," said the beaming possible 2008 presidential contender. "You got us both in trouble!"

Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.”

“So, four bits would be fitty cent??

One bit is enough.”

““flasher - move to Russia, India, Japan, etc. They are freezing their butts off.”
Sarge

Glad they are freezing there butts off. Just putting in my two cents that 40-60 degree days in January 5 years ago was for the most part unheard of.”

“Yes but were they unheard of 200 years ago or 2000 years ago or 20,000 years ago. Its speaks much on the vanity of man that we think if something hasn't happened in our lifetime then it couldn't have possibly ever happened before.”

“Vanity or not. The lets go beyond my lifetime. It's warmer now compared to my grandfather and father. Sure its not 20,000 years but it spans the past century. By the way speaks alot in the fact I'm a republican but I do believe in global warming. Or maybe that doesn't mean I'm a republican and that I have my own train of thought and see many sides of many stories.”

“The sun has increased it's output recently also. Since we get our warmth from the sun, it stands to reason there would be a correlation.”

“I'm sorry, when did I bring politics into this. I never said you were or weren't republican. I just said that its vain, or lets put it in a way that doesn't make you fall on your sword, its bad science to say that something was unheard of 5 years ago as a means of supporting a planitary shift in weather patters. Or even the span of your grandfathers lifetime.”

“"Now that most scientists agree human activity is causing Earth to warm, the central debate has shifted to whether climate change is progressing so rapidly that, within decades, humans may be helpless to slow or reverse the trend.

This "tipping point" scenario has begun to consume many prominent researchers in the United States and abroad, because the answer could determine how drastically countries need to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years. While scientists remain uncertain when such a point might occur, many say it is urgent that policymakers cut global carbon dioxide emissions in half over the next 50 years or risk the triggering of changes that would be irreversible......"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012801021.html
last edited: 1/30/06 9:26:15 AM”

“Whatever I'm done with stupid argument. Think what you want I gave my opinion.”

“Here it comes Detroit. You asked for it ....”

“My ski orienteering meet tomorrow got cancelled...it`s been raining for two and a half days. :o( Supposed to be good tomorrow...but the ski trails might be icy.

What`s coming in Detroit? A big snow storm during the football game?”

“cold/snow - but they have a dome”

“i thought weather was supposed to be part of the game - it is an outdoor sport, or at least its supposed to be.”

“N.O. had a dome.”

“It was so cold last year that I didn't really believe in it. But this year is is raining buckets on February 5, so now I believe in it. Winter is awful this year.....”

“He can disagree with the weather! Guess he's never seen it rain buckets. If he claims that it is not raining, perhaps it is because he is used to walking on water!”

“Ok, heard on the news that Detroit was supposed to get 15cm of snow during the Super Bowl. Guess it didn't happen.”

“Nope, only about three of the predicted 8 inches.”

“I confess. I broke the dam.”

“1. Weather does not equal climate.
2. If global warming is occurring, there's no way to tell if it will get better or worse in the future, if it's part of a long term trend, or if human activity is to blame.
3. The whole global warming issue has been blown totally out of its proper scientific proportion by people with a vested interest in fear of business and industry.”

“ANother Limbaugh/InsHannity Parrott!

Caw-caw!”

“It suits them BB, the leaders of the wacko-right don't want people to think for themselves. Just do as they're told.”

“y2 - Where were you on Skeetah Bait's post? You let me down man.

233 dead in Poland ... http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/06/060206172833.gzx8ex3h.html”

“It's easy to say "he's stupid, he doesn't know what he's talking about." In fact it's the favorite tactic of the left. One wonders when they'll start actually addressing issues instead of throwing insults.”

“No, I broke the dam!

I could not stop laughing at that.”

“mr dark - you mean like the right ignoring the opinion of 95% of the world's scientists covering the matter, and 95% of the world's government, simply because it doesn't suit a political agenda.”