Who believes in Global Warming?

“I'm getting less concearned about the use of fossil fuels causing global warming. As we near peak oil prouction the problem will be self limiting. Basically we are going to start running out in the not so distant future. I'm sure we have at least 50 years of oil left. In those last 50 years though the cost will continue to increase. The cost will inhibit wasteful use. In that timeframe alternative fuels will become profitable due to the high cost of fossil fuels.
There will of course be more climate change. The climate always has and always will change. In our lifetimes it is possible that we will see some expensive beachfront property disapper as well as many port cities. Here in Louisiana the process is already happening. Rising seas contributes to a portion of our land loss. According to this chart on the EPA's website if you live in a area in red your future is bleak. Well over a million of us live or lived in that zone. Katrina has proven this chart to be effective. Almost everything in red had severe flood damage along the Lousiana and Mississippi coasts. Katrina will end up costing about 200 billion dollars. We are building and now rebuilding in the danger zone. This is where your tax dollars will go to die for a long time coming.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/gulf_flc600.gif?openimageresource”

“Oh ballz, another reformed drinker telling me to mend my ways!!
No way, Righteous Johnny!!

My whole point is the environmental Righteous Johnnys are telling us what to do, but aren't doing it themselves. Funny how you pick and choose your hypocrites.

I wasn't telling you at all what to do - I was saying that IF you are going to tell me what to do (with my recyclables) then you need to do something about the amount of trash you generate yourself. That's my whole point, and you seemed to walk right into your own words there.
last edited: 3/01/06 2:28:13 PM”

“Sarge - you seem to want to take this argument and want to make it one of crazy extremes - in reality the steps to start doing something are really very basic.

Not at all. Why did you say that. Listen again. The environmentalists are telling us that it's too late, we are either at or have just passed the point of no return. It's not me saying that! It's them. I am saying those same people (as a general rule) aren't doing squat themselves to make a real difference. Talking trash about enviro-friendly dishwashers is just that, talking trash. It's not helping the problem - by their own definition, not mine.

You've said already that you use energy-efficient lightbulbs, what else could you do?

Why do you ask? What does that have to do with anything? I am not the one going around telling others how to save the planet. Not sure where you're going here.
last edited: 3/01/06 2:27:41 PM”

“I've been saying exactly that to my tree-hugging friends for years now. Glad we see eye-to-eye.”

“Bateaudriver states there is probably 50 years worth of oil left.

Maybe so at current world consumption levels and then only if tar sands, oil shales etc, are counted (in terms of typical crude oil that is pumped out of the ground, there is only about 25 years of consumption left, thats 30 billion barrels per year with suspected recoverable reserves at about 750 billion barrels).

But demand by billions of new consumers is increasing rapidly, so the 25 and 50 year estimates might be trimmed considerably.

Not to mention, the best of the high quality light sweet crude is already nearly used up, and the remaining reserves are lower quality.
last edited: 3/01/06 2:37:06 PM”

“lonesurveyor - That's awesome! That will force us to buy into alternative fuels quickly.”

“HMM, so this is the planet that took a direct hit from an asteroid (more power than ALL THE EXPLOSIVES IN HUMAN HISTORY) and survived....and we are going to kill it...LOL. Why is it that the biggest polluters CHINA, INDIA etc are not included but the nations that are the wealthiest are hamstrung....It is called shared misery.
Forget it.”

“Sarge:

There are no alternative fuels worth mentioning except natural gas, coal and uranium and the natural gas will be depleted as rapidly or more so than oil. Methane hydrides?

There are alternative sources of power generation.”

“Um, I said that.”

“XL, You frequently mention the concept of 'shared misery'.

Do you honestly believe that it has been, is or will be otherwise for the nearly full percentage of people who have, are or will be living on this world? Admittedly, a select few that have ever lived including likely every poster on this message board have got it pretty good, right now.

It would be curious for you to spell out your agenda for maintaining a carefree and comfortable world.
last edited: 3/01/06 2:57:53 PM”

“Temperatures below 20 degrees were not seen here this winter in the NC foothills, normally there are several days in the single digits and many with lows in the teens although it is not to late yet.

Today is starting off like mid-May.
last edited: 3/02/06 6:30:27 AM”

“Y2 argues that proves nothing.”

“True, it proves nothing but is a curious indication, possibly a new trend or maybe just a local brief anomaly.”

“Spell out how to live in a carefree comfortable world...not possible. Yes I guess it is in the utopian belief of the Socialists. But the real truth is that Life is a Challenge. The only way to make life "good" is to spread freedom, it ain't the lack of capital its the lack of capitalisim that holds third world countries back.
I keep noticing that every panacea we get shown of GOVERNMENT TAKING CARE OF US...results in disaster as soon as the majority of the population figures out they can get Free MONEY.
Canada, once touted as the "GREAT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE PROGRAM OF HILLARYCARE" is now failing. Private Hospitals are being set up to cover people who have money and don't want to wait months for treatment.
My belief is this,"People are incredibly creative, if allowed to be creative. When you cut the chains of government you notice they will naturally tend to thrive."
There is a great difference between chains and laws. We are slowly becoming a country where the people want a LAW to tell them WHAT THEY CAN DO.”

“Sarge go back and read your post. You didn't say that, lol.

Lonesurveyor, that was one of my favorite Novas in awhile. I wonder if the crew would have stayed w/ the ships had the ice not crushed them? It amazed me the incredible amounts of worthless junk they chose to drag along w/ them. I wonder if they weren't quite sane at that point.”

“I was able to see the world's foremost scientist of Anthropology speak last night about enviromental issues and societies. Jared Diamond, author of "The Third Chimpanze", Pulitzer Prize winning "Guns, Germs and Steel", and most recently "Collapse", gave a great presentation describing how global warming, pollution and deforestation are sending us to ruin. He took many, many pot shots at the Bush Administration, of which many recieved applause from the audiance of scholars and anthropology lovers.

He made a great point about the island of hispanola (The Dominican Republic & Haiti). Haiti has deforested 99% of thier half of the island, and is the poorest nation in the AMerica's, while the Dominican Republic has 34% of it's half of the islands forested, and has enected legislation to protect the forests. Per capita income in the Dominican is 3x that of Haiti, and the people of the DR live much fuller lives. He pointed out that basball produces many major leaguers, where Haiti produces little, if any. (The guy is a huge Red Sox fan - loves Pedro)

Anyway, the guy is a great scholar, and has written great books. Check out "Collapse" if you get a chance.”

“Taking pot shots at Bush is what makes a foremost scientist, foremost.

I've always said that.”

“Bateux - it's a good point. The overreliance on the finite resource of oil could have a bigger impact. Even before it's all gone the price will rise to levels where people will have to use less or look for altenative sources of energy.”

“Driving? everyone else is doing it.”

“Methinks Haiti's problems are more based in Geography than anything else.”

“Haiti's major problem is it oligarchs grip on and milking of the poor.

Its an odd sort of colonialism......a kind of racial caste system.”

“BB - As you said, Haiti is the poorest Nation in the West. Do you know who is 2nd?

The DR, of course. 3x of nothing ain't much.

;)”

“The most important thing in real estate is ;'population, population and population'.”

“I keep hearing about this marvelous "scientific consensus", and that "the vast majority of scientists agree" that global warming is happening. And yet, nobody can point me to a reliable source on this. Nobody can point me to a site that says "x percentage of these scientists believe man-made global warming is happening, and x percentage of these scientists". Without that, the claim that there is a scientific consensus on this is just an unsubstantiated statement.”

“It's most of the "reputable" scientists. But, in order to be considered reputable, you have to believe in manmade global warming.”

“Does this group include the "expert" pre-season hurricane predictors?”

“The IPCC is obviously not reputable enough for some.
Because they're fairly careful in what they say, and make sure they not to overstate the case - some like to use this to throw doubt over the whole subject.”

“Obviously the IPCC is a bunch of Wacko Environmentalist Libbies who base all their research around an irrational hatred of Dubya - blinding them to the truth.”

“It's commutative, things got warmer so that people could burn more ancient fuels. The End.”

“I just posted this on Hey Stovestomper!

Is this the beginning?

“There is a mass of thunderstorms in the mid-gulf region. I have looked of the SST's and the water is warm enough to support tropical activity. This could be the beginning. One thing for sure it ain't far away. It is 84 degrees here right now. I have actually been sweating while hooking up lights and ceiling fans out in the boathouse. Gonna need those fans to sit on the deck in comfort as hot as it is already.

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/gmex-wv-loop.html

Max Mayfield said to prepare for what very likely will be a 2006 repeat performance of 2004 and 2005. Mayfield even suggested that due to the La Nina effect, there could be more hurricanes in 2006 than there were in 2005.
"Homeowners in areas where previous hurricanes have damaged their property need to complete minor repairs before the next hurricane season," Mayfield said. "What seem like small items, a loose shingle for instance, will be weaknesses if another hurricane comes through, and could result in major damage if not repaired now."

Bateauxdriver
2:12:12 PM
3/02/06”

“Well, its not to early for hurricanes.

Technically, the blizzard of 1993 which came ashore at the Florida panhandle on March 10 had hurricane strength winds and an extremely low pressure as it came ashore.
last edited: 3/02/06 4:26:13 PM”

“I listen to AC/DC on the subject.”

“http://www.waterkeeper.org/mainarticledetails.aspx?articleid=175

Our generation faces the greatest moral and political crisis in human history. Will we take the steps necessary to avert catastrophic global warming or will we doom our children to a new Dark Ages in a world that is biologically and economically impoverished and defined by ever diminishing quality of life?

According to the grimmest forecasts, extreme global warming could give us a future where erratic and chaotic weather, rising sea levels, and melting snowpack usher in an epic of drought, crop failure, famine, flood and mass extinctions – and the political instability that invariably accompanies dwindling resources. Millions of environmental refugees uprooted by these calamities will challenge the existence of democracy, freedom, justice and human dignity in every corner of the globe. Our grandchildren may look longingly at our era as the apex of civilization and human progress.

This all may sound to some like absurd exaggeration, but climate change is real and you don't need a weatherman to know which way the mercury is already headed.

http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/img/sgw.logo.gif
last edited: 3/08/06 7:05:26 AM”

“According to the grimmest forecasts, extreme global warming could give us a future where erratic and chaotic weather, rising sea levels, and melting snowpack usher in an epic of drought, crop failure, famine, flood and mass extinctions – and the political instability that invariably accompanies dwindling resources. Millions of environmental refugees uprooted by these calamities will challenge the existence of democracy, freedom, justice and human dignity in every corner of the globe. Our grandchildren may look longingly at our era as the apex of civilization and human progress.

The weather guys always overestimate the upcoming storms.”

“Time to buy stock in companies that supply artic gear”

“http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyid=2006-03-06T204858Z_01_N06327000_RTRUKOC_0_US-SPACE-SUN.xml&rpc=22

OH dear, the sun will be getting HOTTER????now how did we Americans do that?”

“The cycle of Solar Maximum has been occurring for a long time, every 11 or so years for eons.

It is a natural thing.

This time though the Solar Maximum will occur at a time when the level of CO2 in the atmosphere of earth is higher than in 500,000 years.

Could be curious.”

“Scientist Alleging Bush Censorship Helped Gore, Kerry
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
March 23, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - The scientist touted by CBS News' "60 Minutes" as arguably the "world's leading researcher on global warming" and spotlighted as a victim of the Bush administration's censorship on the issue, publicly endorsed Democrat John Kerry for president and received a $250,000 grant from the charitable foundation headed by Kerry's wife.

Scientist James Hansen has also admitted that he contributed to two recent Democratic presidential campaigns. Furthermore, he acted as a consultant in February to former Vice President Al Gore's slide show presentations on "global warming," which Gore presented around the country.

But Scott Pelley, the "60 Minutes" reporter who profiled Hansen and detailed his accusations of censorship on the March 19, edition of the newsmagazine, made no mention of Hansen's links to Kerry and Gore and none to the fact that Kerry's wife -- Teresa Heinz Kerry -- had been one of Hansen's benefactors.

[url]http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200603\POL20060323a.html[/url]”

“CBS

Continuous
Bull
Shlt”

“I believe in global warming, especially when my wife leaves the door open on a not-yet-spring day! lol”

“"A survey of climatologists from more than 20 nations has revealed scientists are evenly split on whether humans are responsible for changes in global climate. The findings refute a widely reported study by a California “Gender and Science” professor who claimed that, based on her personal examination of 928 scientific papers on the issue, every single one reached the conclusion that global warming is real and primarily caused by humans."

In another statement, the Heartlanders claim to have a petition signed by 19,000 scientists (some with advanced degrees, imagine that!) who do not believe in Global Warming or Climate Change. And further, the Heartlanders claim a little warming would be a 'good event' and there will be absolutely little or no rise (they express it as only 1/20th of one percent of ocean depth, lets see 40,000' deep ocean, thats a 20' rise, miniscule!) in sea levels even from the melting of most all ice on Earth.

Best for last, my gosh, atmospheric CO2 levels have only increased by 80 parts per million in the last 60 years, can you imagine how insignifigant that is, only 80 ppm, thats only one part in 12,500 parts (but of course since there was only 300 ppm to begin with 60 years ago, its a 25 or so % increase to a level that a report I read the other day stated might be the highest CO2 level in Earth's atmosphere in 30 million years - hmmmm, we all know what a 100 year flood might be like, I wonder what a once in 30 million years flood might be like?)!

http://www.heartland.org/IssueSuiteTopic.cfm?issId=2&istId=284”

“funny stuff aside - Anybody want to retract their support of the Hansen story?”

“So what is wrong with scientists and politicians who share the same views supporting each other? I doubt anyone is paying anyone to be dishonest in the case mentioned.”

“So what is wrong with scientists and politicians who share the same views supporting each other?

I'll have to remember that one.”

“For the record, scientists are people who derive theory from facts, and supported hypothosis, not the quacks sarge thinks he's talking about.

Just because you have a theology degree from John the Baptist Bones Mary Magdeline University doesn't mean you are a credible scientist on Global Warming, unless, of course, sarge can find a right wing blog that publishes your nonsense and calls it a fact.”

“Buddha Bear ... making it about me again ...

Must be a lonely life.”

“WHOA!!! $250 K. That's quite a "bribe" sarge. Yeehaa! I bet that nasty liberal scientist really partied with that money.
Went out and bought himself a big SUV. He must be a liar if he took that HUGE amount of money from the likes of those liberals scumballs. I mean after all, they have some motives probably; gonna make money off this somehow. I bet he is purposely lieing and cooking his data. All that CO2 isn't doing anything out of the ordinary.
Heck...those eskimoes are gonna like the warmer temps. Maybe they can trade in their kayaks for an outboard motorboat or even an SUV after they pave over the tundra.

Sarge, the perpetual victim of the taunts of TTers. You are a putz. A pencil d_cked, nit wit, attention seeking little man.

This is about science sargent wusspad. Not hearsay nonsense. Get back on the porch and read your bible.”

“Speaking of science yet another study reveals the threat of global warming.”