Who believes in Global Warming?

“Oh really? Here's an interesting link where you can read about Bush's actions and his stance on the National Parks

http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1295845”

“national parks? geesh man, we're talkin global warming here....
we've had dozens of "evil bush decimates all trees" threads....

this is just another attempt by liberals to controll the world you....and their getting away with it

in one eruption, mt penitubo(sp?) put out more greenhouse emmisions than all of mankind in history.

a 6'x6' patch of ordinary grass puts out enough oxygen for a family of 4.


pollution sucks....just as bad as doomsaying, chicken little extremist who proclaim the end of history will soon be upon us unless we do what they say....


if God wants the planet hotter, it'll get hotter....with the breath from His nostral....whip out the sunscreen boys....”

“you're right, I digressed to something Backpackers should talk about pertaining to Bush

Here's the global warming proof
http://www.nrdc.org/air/pollution/fclearsk.asp”

“the article talks about the clean air act of 2003.....now you said.....and i quote; "One of the first things the Bush administration did when they got into power was to waive the requirements for companies to comply with EXISTING air quality standards"....

aside from the obvious lie of "one of the first things" the act does not waive compliance with existing standards at all...


unless you can provide real evidence of your statements, i'll have to ask for a full retraction, as well as a public apology to the admistration for defimation of character”

“Gore Calls Bush a 'Moral Coward'
Environmental Policies Decried as Driven by Campaign Funds
By Eric Pianin
Washington Post Staff Writer


Former vice president Al Gore called President Bush "a moral coward" yesterday for allegedly tailoring his policies on global warming and other environmental and energy matters to benefit his allies in the coal, oil and mining industries.

In a stinging assessment of the president's environmental record, Gore criticized Bush for reneging on his 2000 campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas blamed by many scientists for Earth's rising temperature, and for launching a "totally meaningless" voluntary program after disavowing a 1997 international accord negotiated in Kyoto, Japan, that imposed mandatory emissions cuts.

Gore also complained that Bush has appointed many industry lobbyists and lawyers to key policy and regulatory posts, that his administration has "routinely" drafted new regulations that favor industry and that the Environmental Protection Agency has slowed the cleanup of toxic waste sites under the Superfund program.

more...


Full speech here”

“The speech probably would have been much more effective if the air temp. wasn't below zero at the time.”

“Statement of the American Geophysical Union (largest organization of earth scientists): Human Impacts on Climate”

“Al is not running, so he can call Bush all sorts of things.

Heck, I'm not running... Bush is a #&%!$ing #&%!$bag.”

“In case you miss it in the AGU report:
"The global climate is changing and human activities are contributing to that change."”

“But the extent to which humans are contributing remains unclear.”

“I think it's a result of all that methane that is released into the air from cow's belching.
:D”

“The climate has changed throughout the past with or without us, and unfortuneatly we have no real way to tell at this point what kind of change would happen at this time without human input. So until we can do that I'm highly skeptical of any research that claims that we are the problem or that the worlds going to end.”

“Global warming is a hoax concocted by the leftist commie pinko elitist environmental bleeding heart socialist liberal coalition to stop Halliburton from taking over the world.”

“global warming isn't the hoax, although it is still somewhat questionable (my main concern being that different techniques are being used to ascertain the global temps vs. the techniques used to gather the temps they are being contrasted with), but the idea that humans are in some way responsible is what is very questionable. We could probably reduce all of our impact as close to zero as possible and still sit around twiddling our thumbs wondering why the temp keeps going up. Of course soon enough there will be a major eruption and we'll be back in a mini ice age, so let's not get all Al Gored gloomy and doomy about it.”

“well, we're certainly not improving the environment”

“Of course as only about 90 percent of scientists think humans are having a role in climate change -so we should do nothing.

Maybe we should even lift restrictions on the release of greenhouse gasses. After all they can't prove it for a fact.”

“Gee bison, don't you think you should contact the American Geophysical Union with your findings? Imagine that... an organization of over 41,000 scientists in 130 countries totally missing your insight.”

“You don't think those saying it's not happening could be influenced by their own economic interests do you? Surely not.”

“41,000 scientists that are unanimous on this topic? Yeah right.”

“"Adopted by Council December, 2003"”

“Unanimously?”

“Global warming is fact.

The sun is shining brightly and the temp has shot all the way up to 16.”

“Mutt - while we know it's not an exact science - the only people in denial seem to be coming from organizations funded by the likes of Exxon. That and right wing political groups who seem to want to claim its a left-wing conspriracy to thwart big business.”

“Ynami, I agree. I believe humanity is having a large impact on warming. However, I am correct in saying no one knows the extent of humanity's contribution?”

“The Nuts and Bolts of the Show
"The jist of the show was this:

1. Over the life of the earth, there have been dramatic temperature changes that have can be conclusively traced to Ice Ages.

2. Over the past 100 years, the average temperature has risen by approximately 5 degrees, a huge change, and one that will lead us to a new ice age.

3. The Ocean's deep sea currents are generated by dense, cold saltwater off the coast of Greenland, sinking to the bottom of the ocean, and circulating south along the Americian coast, then east toward Australia where the water wrams and rises, and recirculates up to greenland where the process happens again. This creates a "air conditioner" effect that regulates temperatures world temperatures.

4. As a result of global warming, greenlands freshwater arctic glaciers are melting, diluting the heavy condensed saltwater, which is diminishing the sinking of the cold, heavy, arctic water near Greenland. When this happens, the world becomes cooler, creating ice ages.

5. Scientists estimate based on the number of Greenland based ice floats that the "air conditioner" will diminish and stop due to the glacial melt, gradually creating another Ice age in the future.

I wish I knew some of the hard numbers, but the arguement was very compelling."”

“Of course - I think that's part of the problem - but I don't think not knowing is an excuse for sitting back and doing nothing.”

“Buddha, the process seems to be linked to ocean currents. At the present time, salinity increases near the poles, sinking to the bottom as cold water and being replaced by warmer water.

Melting ice infuses large amounts of fresh water, decreasing salinity and eventually affecting the currents, which now carry warm water from the tropics pole-ward, thus moderating temperatures.

If the currents shut down or are modified so that warm tropical water does not flow pole-ward, another ice age is the likely result.

This is apparently based on extensive modeling. How much warming it would take to make those things happen is not very definitive just yet, but they suspect late in this century the change could take place. The next question would be how long it would take for an ice age to reach the extent it reached in the Wisconsin. They assume centuries at least, but nobody knows. Given the chaos theory of things, it could happen quite quickly or in the other event go in the other direction and take thousands of years.”

“Good points Geobeet.

It's also known that this deep ocean current took effect after PANGEA broke apart and came to rest close to it's current position (the world land masses), which, coincidentally is the same time that the world went through a period of the steadiest temperature control known. For some 100,000 years, the world average temp hasn't varied more than 3 degrees (Or maybe it was 2 degrees). The only exception is over the past several decades.”

“My argument is that, even though we might not know the extent to which we are contributing to global warming, we should err on the side of caution. As a race, we have the intelligence and technology to base our energy consumption on a much "greener" footing. However, the entrenched interests of many powerful companies could be at stake, thus making the switch to a cleaner technology that much more difficult.”

“ahem, having worked in the academic community (as a researcher not a professor) I think it's time some of those blaming economic interest might want to take some time to look into the economic interests of those who are proponents of the idea that global warming is in large part caused by humans. Make no mistake they are well aware that if there were no controversy on the issue their life's work, and the funding that goes along with it would be gone.”

“That principal applies just about everywhere in academics not just global warming. But I've personally seen plenty of academics both in liberal arts and in hard sciences flat out ignore research with well drawn conclusions that did not fit into the work they had been doing for years.”

“From the left wing, radical, rag, Fortune magazine:

Mother of all national security issues.
By David Stipp


Global warming may be bad news for future generations, but let's face it, most of us spend as little time worrying about it as we did about al Qaeda before 9/11. Like the terrorists, though, the seemingly remote climate risk may hit home sooner and harder than we ever imagined. In fact, the prospect has become so real that the Pentagon's strategic planners are grappling with it.

The threat that has riveted their attention is this: Global warming, rather than causing gradual, centuries-spanning change, may be pushing the climate to a tipping point. Growing evidence suggests the ocean-atmosphere system that controls the world's climate can lurch from one state to another in less than a decade—like a canoe that's gradually tilted until suddenly it flips over. Scientists don't know how close the system is to a critical threshold. But abrupt climate change may well occur in the not-too-distant future. If it does, the need to rapidly adapt may overwhelm many societies—thereby upsetting the geopolitical balance of power.

Though triggered by warming, such change would probably cause cooling in the Northern Hemisphere, leading to longer, harsher winters in much of the U.S. and Europe. Worse, it would cause massive droughts, turning farmland to dust bowls and forests to ashes. Picture last fall's California wildfires as a regular thing. Or imagine similar disasters destabilizing nuclear powers such as Pakistan or Russia—it's easy to see why the Pentagon has become interested in abrupt climate change.

Climate researchers began getting seriously concerned about it a decade ago, after studying temperature indicators embedded in ancient layers of Arctic ice. The data show that a number of dramatic shifts in average temperature took place in the past with shocking speed—in some cases, just a few years.

The case for angst was buttressed by a theory regarded as the most likely explanation for the abrupt changes. The eastern U.S. and northern Europe, it seems, are warmed by a huge Atlantic Ocean current that flows north from the tropics—that's why Britain, at Labrador's latitude, is relatively temperate. Pumping out warm, moist air, this "great conveyor" current gets cooler and denser as it moves north. That causes the current to sink in the North Atlantic, where it heads south again in the ocean depths. The sinking process draws more water from the south, keeping the roughly circular current on the go.

But when the climate warms, according to the theory, fresh water from melting Arctic glaciers flows into the North Atlantic, lowering the current's salinity—and its density and tendency to sink. A warmer climate also increases rainfall and runoff into the current, further lowering its saltiness. As a result, the conveyor loses its main motive force and can rapidly collapse, turning off the huge heat pump and altering the climate over much of the Northern Hemisphere.

Scientists aren't sure what caused the warming that triggered such collapses in the remote past. (Clearly it wasn't humans and their factories.) But the data from Arctic ice and other sources suggest the atmospheric changes that preceded earlier collapses were dismayingly similar to today's global warming. As the Ice Age began drawing to a close about 13,000 years ago, for example, temperatures in Greenland rose to levels near those of recent decades. Then they abruptly plunged as the conveyor apparently shut down, ushering in the "Younger Dryas" period, a 1,300-year reversion to ice-age conditions. (A dryas is an Arctic flower that flourished in Europe at the time.)

Though Mother Nature caused past abrupt climate changes, the one that may be shaping up today probably has more to do with us. In 2001 an international panel of climate experts concluded that there is increasingly strong evidence that most of the global warming observed over the past 50 years is attributable to human activities—mainly the burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal, which release heat-trapping carbon dioxide. Indicators of the warming include shrinking Arctic ice, melting alpine glaciers, and markedly earlier springs at northerly latitudes. A few years ago such changes seemed signs of possible trouble for our kids or grandkids. Today they seem portents of a cataclysm that may not conveniently wait until we're history.

more...”

“"Though triggered by warming, such change would probably cause cooling in the Northern Hemisphere, leading to longer, harsher winters in much of the U.S. and Europe."

With the winter we are having in the Northeast, this line stood out. I keep hearing that this years cold air is caused by Artic air coming down... as opposed to less warmth coming in from the Gulf Stream. I am assuming, for the moment, that there wouldn't be a direct connection between these two.”

“Global Climate Change.......”

“It is being theorized that overall global warming will lead to changes in wind patterns and ocean currents. Some areas warm while others chill.

Anybody care to wait and find out? Putting the extra carbon dioxide into the atmosphere over the last 200-300 years has to have some effect.”

“I've heard this theory before about the Gulf Stream shutting down. LyndyS first posted an article on it a few years back. I think it started off as a somewhat radical theory proposed by an oceanographic institue in Massachussets, but is now obviously gaining more and more acceptance in scientific circles. It's interesting to read that the Pentagon is coming up with a plan for said event.

From what I remember of the old article, it's very possible we were in the middle of one of these "mini-ice ages" up until 1830. It's difficult to prove outright, because meterological data back then was sparse. But personal accounts point in that direction. The Hudson River (New York City) used to apparently freeze over every winter and people walked across it. Also, in the famous painting where George Washington is crossing the Delaware River, if you look closely, there are people on the boat pushing aside huge ice chunks with gaffs and their boot:

It never looks like this these days, to my knowledge:

”

“


Delaware River Ice jam
January 30, 2004 — Authorities in Pennsylvania and New Jersey are keeping a close eye on a huge 6 mile ice jam that has formed in the Delaware River. It's not a problem now, but it sure could be later.

There is a stretch of what's actually a 6 mile long ice jam gripping the Delaware River from below the Scudder Falls Bridge to south of Mercer County Waterfront Park. The concern is that this freezing will eventually lead to flooding in parts of Trenton, Yardley, or Philadelphia just to name a few.

That was the case in Bucks County during the Winter of 1999, when Delaware River flood waters caused extensive damage and left behind enormous chunks of ice after the water receded.


Ice-filled waterways raising flood concerns
Ice has played a memorable role in Delaware River history.

Gen. George Washington and his troops battled it on their way to their historic 1776 victory in Trenton.

In 1996, 2 inches of rain fell a week after a Jan. 7 blizzard, causing flooding around the region, including the Delaware River and Assunpink Creek.

Now, after weeks of almost constant below-freezing temperatures, a 6-mile-long ice jam is clogging the river from just below the Scudder Falls Bridge south to below Mercer County Waterfront Park.

And forecasters are hoping history won't be repeating its icy self.

"It's basically along the entire waterfront," Walt Nickelsberg, a hydrologist with the National Weather Service's Mount Holly office, said of the latest ice pack.

<snip>
The Delaware isn't the only area river with ice jams. The Hackensack, Ramapo and Raritan rivers have had ice, and New Jersey-to-New York ferry service has been disrupted by ice in the Hudson River and Raritan Bay.”

“well everyone knows that the earth goes through changes constantly and that there have been several ice ages...which were caused by the temp heating up??? i that is correct....im sure humans have affected the process but you ahve to make mistakes to learn from them....i do think that we as humans should do all that we can to protect nature if not as a whole then at least sections such as national forests...”

“Its very cold here, and its been cold this winter. Like pedxing said, it's caused by the artic air though. I dont see any global warming around here. Only because i spent last night out in a tent in the middle of the woods.”

“Guaranteed to be the wildest article on Global Warming you've read to date.


CLIMATE COLLAPSE

The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare

The climate could change radically, and fast. That would be the mother of all national
security issues.

FORTUNE Monday, January 26, 2004 By David Stipp


Global warming may be bad news for future generations, but let's
face it, most of us spend as little time worrying about it as we did
about al Qaeda before 9/11. Like the terrorists, though, the
seemingly remote climate risk may hit home sooner and harder than we
ever imagined. In fact, the prospect has become so real that the
Pentagon's strategic planners are grappling with it.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,582584,00.html


Hordes of bikini-clad Swedish Commadettes sweeping southward! I #&%!$ you not, Dude!
”

“'Commandettes'

sheesh.”

“How ironic.

Well sounds like a good excuse to invade Iraq and steal their oil, wanna keep warm after all during those summer snow flurries.”

“Great article Tilt.

Do me a favor and reset your date range on this thread to 2 weeks.”

“Missed it the first time.

I just got the link in the mail from a guy who does climate research at Goddard Space Flight Center. The folks over there got a tremendous laugh out of it.

Maybe Bush will invade a coalmining state now.”

“(CBS) It's an over-the-top disaster film where global warming wreaks havoc at warp speed as a White House and Vice President Cheney look-alike ignore scientists' warnings of doom that global warming is real and its affecting us now.

Not surprisingly, environmental activists have seized the film as a tool to bash the Bush administration, reports CBS News Correspondent Jerry Bowen:

"This administration has been trying to stifle the national debate on global warming," said Robert Kennedy Jr. with the Natural Resources Defense Council. "I think this movie gives us an opportunity to start talking about global warming."

President Bush outraged environmentalists when he abandoned the Kyoto treaty meant to cut harmful emissions worldwide, calling for more research and voluntary cutbacks instead.

"I will not accept a plan that will harm our economy and hurt American workers," the President said.

Now, just as the film debuts, the administration is trying to beat back a senate bill aimed at fighting global warming.

Pure fiction, say the president's allies.

"With all the hysteria, all the fear, all the phony science, could it be global warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people? I believe it is," said Sen. James Inhofe, R-OK.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/20/eveningnews/main618801.shtml”

“Melting Canadian glaciers sinking Chicago
Associated Press

CHICAGO — Shifting land caused by the melting of Canadian glaciers causes Chicago to sink at the rate of about a millimeter a year, a Northwestern University study has found.

Regions south of the U.S.-Canadian border are generally sinking, while regions north of the border are generally rising, the study found.”

“Didn't they build it in a swamp to begin with?”

“The head of one of the world's biggest oil companies has admitted that the threat of climate change makes him "really very worried for the planet".
In an interview in today's Guardian Life section, Ron Oxburgh, chairman of Shell, says we urgently need to capture emissions of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, which scientists think contribute to global warming, and store them underground - a technique called carbon sequestration.

"Sequestration is difficult, but if we don't have sequestration then I see very little hope for the world," said Lord Oxburgh. "No one can be comfortable at the prospect of continuing to pump out the amounts of carbon dioxide that we are pumping out at present ... with consequences that we really can't predict but are probably not good."

His comments will enrage many in the oil industry, which is targeted by climate change campaigners because the use of its products spews out huge quantities of carbon dioxide, most visibly from vehicle exhausts.

His words follow those of the government's chief science adviser, David King, who said in January that climate change posed a bigger threat to the world than terrorism.

continued...”

“instigator!

you are a trouble maker, aren't you, V?”