Who believes in Global Warming?

“Wood is stored solar energy from the last 0-1000 years(approx.) and really no different than that stored 65 million years ago. Mankind must someday use the heat of the suns rays, in real time, at a rate equal to what we create with all we do.
The Co2 and its'religion does have adverse effects, but not near the extent of what their movement requires. It, unfortunatly, does direct attention away from every day heat production and the resulting pollutants.”

“hyway, in your example the ski lodge becomes an unused structure that still requires maintenance, and therefore money goes in without any profit coming out. The grid will still be necessary, so it will still produce a profit while requiring the same maintenance whether its transporting energy that came from the sun today or 500,000 years ago. The generating plants are another story, and they are covered by other fees on your bill. The plants are more analagous to your ski lodge than the grid is.”

“not true, some people without RV's will still want to stay in the lodge. You can't deny them that service and you can't charge them prohibitive prices for the service. The Rural Sking Administration will not allow you to dump less profitable areas to concentrate on the majority areas.”

“I guess referencing the various idiotic laws from the last administration that placed MORE and MORE land off limits to timber clearing (in the west) thus producing more and more down timber and highly flammable undergrowth ...really doesn't matter?”

“I'm presuming the "ski lodges" won't be needed anymore because of oversized "RV's" all over the place. Eventually laws will be passed which will make it profitable to install overized PV arrays. Instead of installing a 4kW array to cover my anual useage, I can install a 6kW array, which (along with another neighbor's excess) powers yet another neighbor who only has north-facing exposure on their land (thus they can't install solar).”

“XL, down timber is vital to the overall ecosystem. You clear away all the deadfall every year and eventually your soil can't sustain plant life, and over the short term there's no place for lots of bugs and animals to live.”

“tech, I think you know that the connection fee will have to go up if a whole community becomes so energy efficient that they are selling energy to the power company. It just seems weird that you are arguing against that economic necessity.”

“nah, it's all just cyclical”

“This thread was actually informative and civil for a few days.”

“Mr. Personal Attack makes pretty silly statements some times.”

“SS, this is the 2nd non-fuego thread you've tried to enflame today. If you want to continue your career as net nanny, you're going to have to start walking the walk.

Hyway, I'm not trying to grind on ya, just looking for information is all. Here's a couple of questions:

What kind of fuel do you heat your home with? Why? Why is it better or sorse than wood?

A different scenario: I had my 40 logged last Dec/Jan, select cut. The logger was free to take the mature jack pine and poplar (aspen), but required to leave everything else. Additionally they were to leave a buffer on either side of the road. Since that time new growth has sprouted up to the point it is already 7-8 feet tall; deer love to browse on the new shoots. Left behind were tops and branches, some of which I have harvested for firewood, others I have stacked to provide shelter for ground animals. The prevailing argument in this area is that it should be harvested otherwise it will just fall and rot. What are your thoughts and why?

Another scenario has to do with where I am presently cuttig oak for firewood. There are more than 100 mature oak in this particular area of a 33 acre parcel. The owners actually want all the oak removed from the acreage. Why? Beats the hell out of me. They even offered it to the areas biggest logger who turned it down because the parcel was too small for him to bother with. This is a beautiful property and I hate to see it cut, but if I don't cut it, someone else will. I could see taking some of the biggest and sawing it into lumber, but it to clear it all bothers me. What's your thinking on this?”

“nimble, I have no problem with what you are doing. I am just asking what would it be like if EVERYONE was doing what you are doing? Thats the point of this whole thread isn't it? That all of our individual actions while minor add up to quite a lot collectively. Just trying to determine what would be the collective effect if we used wood to heat everyone's home, or worse, to have wood fired electric plants.”

“Everyone can't do what I'm doing. Most don't have the access and, amazingly, most around here with the means and opportunity are too damn lazy. The same folks who won't go in the woods unless on an ATV or hunt unless from a tree stand (but I get your point). My primary motive for this is purely monetary. Since I decided to help my daughter go back to school, I am cutting corners wherever possible.”

“all this talk of trees

Cut down two dead ash yesterday (they are in the drive cut and waiting to be split)

4 more tomorrow. The stove is going tonite, 81 in the back of the house, snuggy warm.

No way could everyone heat with wood. Thank God most folks are too lazy for the work.”

“Birch, it was 84 in here a few minutes ago. I'm still tinkering with getting it to burn slowly through most of the night. I haven't bought the fan for it yet, though the upstairs is warmer just with the door open. We're a long way from the arctic blasts of January/February, so the fan will be bought and installed pdq.”

“Nimble, I find that it really depends on the wood. I am burning ash, I will have some good elm once I get it split. I wish I could just have maple.”

“I have some sugar maple, but I intend to learn about tapping and boiling down the sap over the winter.”

“check out lehmans
http://www.lehmans.com/

you should be able to get all you need to make syrup.

FWIW you are living my retirement dream.

Ever read the book "five acres and independence"? I reckon you'd enjoy it.

*edit or "the homestead year"
last edited: 10/26/07 7:51:00 PM”

“nimble I totally respect and envy your retirement. I agree that very few people will actually heat there home with wood so its no worse than having camp fires in the backcountry. I was just commenting on the impact if they did, which means it wouldn't be a very good thing to recommend as a means of lowering or carbon footprint. Might start a movement to power our electric plant with wood”

“I'm surprised burning wood is carbon neutral. I think I need to clarify myself on exactly what carbon neutral means.

I thought burning wood polluted the air more than running your car. I'm not sure where I learned/heard that though. There's a lot of propaganda out there. It's hard to know what to believe sometimes.”

“carbon neutral has nothing to do with "pollution" You could poison a lake and still be carbon neutral.”

“Is global warming really global ??

Yes the arctic ice cap is melting, but it also seems that the antarctic is growing.
Glaciers in the Southern Hemisphere (South America and NZ) have been advancing over the last 10 years.

How or why would one half of the world be getting warmer and the other colder ?

One explanation would be a shift in the Earths orbit around the sun.
The earth is tilted which gives us the seasons, a slight orbit change where we are a little closer during the Northern summer, and a little furthur in the Southern would also explain the climate change.

Few orbits are perfect circles, and even they decay over time.”

“don't be so naive. Its a blistering world out there. Polar bears are dying, you heartless person. It can only be man made global warming and teh only way to stop is to support China's ever-enlarging carbon footprint and to wreck the US economy”

“nimble - check out American Science and Surplus online. I bought all of my doorway fans there for about 5 each, instead of over 30 at the local stove store. AS & S often has 6 inch biscuit fans which work great in the corners of a doorway. I use 3 & my house is all toasty.”

“If foreccasters can't predict a few months in advance, how can they 10 or 100 years?

The top guy who used to do this was much more accurate (and says GW is bullcrap) - yet somebody on here (tnt?) told me he was "over the hill". Seems the guys who do it now have no freaking clue!

http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/~maue/tropical/

Forecasters Blow It, Again: '07 Hurricane season may rank as most 'inactive' in 30 years...
last edited: 10/29/07 8:09:38 AM”

“LOL...RIGHT now...they are...what zero for the last two years?

These are the same people who can't guess the weather three days in a row.”

“Where are the GREAT LIBERATOR greetings in Iraq, Storm chasers?”

“why do we have to cross pollinate our politics?”

“The bees are lazy.”

“That psycho Dobson says if you care about the environment, you hate America.

Geeeee, that sounds familiar.”

“The problem for America haters is that no matter what they do the end result is that they hate America”

“Nimble and birch --

I've haven't had to use any resources yet. South facing house = passive solar energy and 65 confortable degrees constant, even in winter. The three cords of wood, one of which was paid for (the rest I harvested for free and split in all in August), will not even be touched until Thanksgiving, nor will the heater switch.

Good luck, y'all!”

“Birch may (or may not) be able to piss further, but I've been pissing for more years and, therefore, have more total gallons. He can't compete. I must have cut a good 7 cords thus far, just picking up the dead and down. Much more to go, but I'm tiring quickly:)”

“If man is responsible for global warming, then who caused the ice to melt to form the Great Lakes?

http://www.emporia.edu/earthsci/student/damery1/gl_form.html”

“LOL nimble!

Little House in Livonia!”

“Should the old be allowed to own an axe, especially a real one?”

“Axes are almost obsolete...so maybe that's all I should own.”

“Really you want a splitting maul, not an axe, anyways.

Little house? I don't know. Little gas bill, yes. $23 last month. =)”

“NM
last edited: 10/30/07 6:27:29 PM”

“Im sure Burch has more then enough GAS to heat your house :D”

“pfffffffffffft”

“Al Gore says global warming is a planetary emergency. It is difficult to see how this can be so when record low temperatures are being set all over the world. In 2007, hundreds of people died, not from global warming, but from cold weather hazards.



Since the mid-19th century, the mean global temperature has increased by 0.7 degrees Celsius. This slight warming is not unusual, and lies well within the range of natural variation. Carbon dioxide continues to build in the atmosphere, but the mean planetary temperature hasn't increased significantly for nearly nine years. Antarctica is getting colder. Neither the intensity nor the frequency of hurricanes has increased. The 2007 season was the third-quietest since 1966. In 2006 not a single hurricane made landfall in the U.S.

lots more good stuff follows .....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/COMMENTARY/10575140”

“All I know is this...


If you go up to somewhere, like Clingmans Dome, and compare the quality of air in terms of the distance you can see on a normal day, it doesn't take long to figure out that the view isn't nearly (not even #&%!$ing close) to what it was 20 years ago.

With all that #&%!$ in the atmosphere, it doesn't take rocket science to figure out we are trapping heat AND #&%!$ing up the environment.”

“As opposed to say what one MAJOR Volcanic eruption can do reference...Krakatoa....?

Check it out Chili....cehck the earth has survived worse.

Is it a problem...MAYBE...but I do not believe it is ANYWHERE as urgent as the Socialist/High Church of Manmade Global Warming members are saying...simply from THEIR BEHAVIOR.


Hence http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/12/17/1197740183601.html

AMID talk of offsetting the hefty carbon footprint of the United Nations climate conference in Bali, organisers missed a large elephant in the room.

The air-conditioning system installed to keep more than 10,000 delegates cool used highly damaging refrigerant gases - as lethal to the atmosphere as 48,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide, and nearly the equivalent of the emissions of all aircraft used to fly delegates to Indonesia.

Sorry but it is like going to the American Lung Association and finding them passing out cigs to their staff.
last edited: 12/19/07 7:28:37 AM”

“You know XL, you just won me over. As a rational human being, I see the light. Let's just keep spewing pollutants into the air, let's keep on burning down the rainforest, and hell, the earth will heal herself.

I can absolutely see the logic in that.”

“I'd like to see Al Gore's carbon footprint........”

“Sarge and XL don't really exist.

They're limited-function AIs distributed across the 'Net by fossil fuel interests.”

“LOL...sorry Tilty is kinda grumpy today...three of the biggest obstacles to Augusta Moving forward....just LEFT OFFICE!!!WHOO HOO...Can't wait...MONDAY WE SERVE THE WARRANTS!!!! (or maybe not Tilty...only THEY know)
\

Sorry Tilty...but you never said what YOU do in this world for employment

Now Chili....first of all that is not a response I would expect from you...there is NOTHING I have ever said that favors destruction of the environment. Rather I teach respect and proper MANAGEMENT. I have no problem encouraging people to consider their impact. But that is not ...repeat NOT the path of the HIGH Church of Global Manmade Climate Destruction. Theirs is totally intented to encourage GOVERNMENT control...look at EVERYTHING they support. Somewhere in there it involves the GOVERNMENT using FORCE to take from the successful to GIVE to the failues. Everything is pat Socialisim.
last edited: 12/19/07 7:53:20 AM”

“Just keep that damn environmental crap out of my back yard.”