Who believes in Global Warming?

“I personally think we are contributing to the weather of the planet, but in the larger scheme of things, I'm not so sure it is significant in comparison to natural massive climactic changes in the history of the earth.

So it comes to being good stewards, knowing that there will be consequences to our actions, but know that there are natural events over which we have no control. What caused the ice age? The disappearance of the dinosaurs? Massive comets? Not to mention volcanoes, earthquakes. hurricanes, floods and tornadoes.

And of course a nuclear blast could ruin your whole day.

Do you really think global warming is our biggest problem?”

“Is it our largest problem? I think it's impossible to tell.

(stop me if you've heard this one...)

Almost seven years ago I did a programming internship at Goddard Space Flight Center just outside DC, at the Climate and Radiation Branch (the radiation in this case being solar). Being the space nut I am, I was in hog heaven. I had a few mindbending discussions with Dennis Chesters, the Project Scientist for the GOES satellites. You know those nifty water vapor loops and such that are shown on the Weather Channel... each one is processed by his team at the Laboratory for Atmospheres at Goddard.

But the main activity at the Branch is the study of climate. Every climate specialist there (and there were plenty) appeared to be convinced that global climate change was occurring and that it was driven by our activities. The only debates they had concerned how bad it was going to be. I've kept in touch with a couple of them and they are just as convinced as they ever were, if not more, by the data that have come in since. They compare it to the situation with the Antarctic ozone hole. Industries whose bread and butter was the production of ozone-depleting substances fought tooth and nail to discredit the research. Now we have coalmining interests and power companies who burn coal playing the same game. They can no longer deny that atmospheric carbon dioxide is increasing geometrically... but now they say that it's Great For Plants!

But is it our worst problem?

I wonder if the homegrown nutcase who released the Anthrax spores has access to Smallpox...”

“Industry scientists working in the interest of the petroleum and lead mining and auto and chemical industries fought like hell to keep lead in our gasoline supply and therefore at high levels in OUR blood.

It took about 60 years to win that fight.”

“I think we are, but am open-minded towards suggestions that the warming could be a natural trend. Either way, looks like something's going on, and I think it's better to play it safe than sorry and act now by taking dramatic measures to reverse the trend. It's just too big of a risk not to. Besides, if by chance this was just a temporary upswing in temperatures, would the efforts to cut back pollution have been bad?”

“I think it's a bunch of bunk. IMHO world hunger is a bigger problem.”

“Should this turn out the way an overwhelming majority of the scientific community says it could, there will be a famine and die-off of biblical proportions.

... so I take what Rush Limbaugh and other industry hacks say with a grain of salt.”

“Don't listen to the snake-oilers....”

“I think religious fanatism is our biggest problem.”

“If you believe global warming is caused by the buildup of CO2 in the atmosphere, then you have a personal moral responsibility to stop contributing CO2 to the atmosphere. Set the example for the rest of us by holding your breath for twenty-four hours.”

“Gordon, I tried your suggestion but kept passing out. I'll keep trying though.”

“I believe that librial thinking, and no one taking responsablility for there actions is our biggest problem. Globle Warming, its important, it is happing, I have no dispituse on that (as a republican), but I don't think that it is the most important thing to wory about. After all the water shortage in NJ is linked to Global Warming. We know that water is pritty important to live, so Global Warming is pritty important. But we should end librial thinking first.”

“On second thought the education of our youth is in some sereiouss twou;lbe?”

“We got twouble
Wight here in Wivva City

We're not talking about dry wells and a few hot years, here. I'm thinking in terms of CO2 levels not seen on Earth in a couple of hundred thousand years. That's what the folks who study climate have told me about the data from ice cores. It's unprecendeted.

Is it a Sure Thing? Hell No! I just think it's a helluva chance to be taking with other peoples' lives to simply dismiss out of hand.


Now, to a bit of housekeeping:

Gordon never answered the question about what set him off initially... was it from a lack of O2?

And I'm still working on that White Paper regarding the use of Theatre Nuclear Weapons (doncha just CRINGE every time George says 'nuculer'?).”

“More than likely it`s just those three kids of mine that left home a few years back! It`s true,.. they`ve never shut a door in their lives on their own, well, not without someone telling them to at least a thousand times.

My best guess is the three of `em have got the heat on full blast where ever they are cause they`re freezing their butts off and there`s no one there to scream at `em to close that freakin` door! If I said it once, I said it a few hundred times a day,... GET IN, OR GET OUT, I don`t much care which, but SHUT THAT FREAKIN` DOOR, I can`t afford to warm the whole state by myself!

You think?LOL”

“Big Foot
I'm having a FLASHBACK!!!!!!! OOOOOOOHHHHH NOOOOOOOO”

“My problem is that, as a statistician, I don't believe most of the statistics put out by the mailstream media. Everything has a "spin" on it.

Global warming could be occurring, but I haven't seen any sort of trend analysis or other evidence published in the mainsteam media to prove the case. On the other hand, I haven't taken the time to search through the journals on global warming to check out legitimate research.

I don't doubt that mankind has affected the ecology of our planet, but I get tired of the spin-meisters and sensationalists in the media. I didn't like Ross Perot, but at least he had a few charts and graphs.”

“Tango313,.. I know what you mean, I was one of nine kids, (3 girls & 6 boys) I bet I heard dad say close that door a gizillion times a year!

And you know those cool summer days we get from time to time? You guessed it, it`s just those kids of mine leaving the door open and letting all the cool air out of the house!

My kids love to tease me, just `cause a few times I mightta said to `em, this house is so cold `cause you keep leaving the doors open. I bet right now I could climb into the freezer and warm up,.. would you Please shut that door?LOL

They get their meaness from their mother`s side of the family, I`m guessin`!LOL”

“Phil, every major climate study that has come out in the past several years (at least all the ones I'm aware of) has concluded we are in a period of rapid global warming. There's still a valid debate as to man's role in the trend.

I've noticed an interesting shift in the pro-industry types as the evidence has mounted on the reality of global warming.

First, there was outright denial that global warming was taking place. Then, the critics started focusing on the lack of evidence that mankind's activities are responsible, seeming to concede that warming is occurring. Most recently, I've heard the remark that massive global warming is inevitable and won't be so bad after all.

The most extreme shift has been that position that goes something like, "all species die out eventually, so there's nothing unnatural if man goes too." (I myself don't think global warming would necessarily cause our extinction, however desireable that may be!)”

“Compare historical fluctuations in temperature to the worst case scenario predicted for the next 100 years.

The predicted global warming is well within the range of previous sudden climate changes.”

“I am not sure if there is global warming or not but I do know that I haven't seen the snow or cold weather I use to see when I was a kid.”

“When the icecaps melt, we're all gonna die....well, at least the ones that's living by the oceans.

Maybe not...I read somewhere if the north and south poles melt...only a part of the Himalayas will be above water.

Maybe it's time to build really big boats.”

“The whole situation is a catch 22...If we alone dramatically reduce our emissions it will put us at a competative disadvantage with the rest of the world..especially countries like CHina and India...Both of these countries can't afford to take on a program like this...it in its self would cause a die off of biblical proportions...So at this point in the game I don't think there is anything that can be done dramitically that wouldn't be disasterous to the world economy...It comes down to individual responsibility..and that would be addressed through personal example....Me...I've decided to take the Blower of my 1968 426 Hemi Dodge Charger ....I feel better already...”

“There isn't enough data yet to support the theory that we are responable for global warming, it could be a natural part of a long cycle. I thought the oceans were big enough sinks for the CO2.

Our biggest problem is the lack of education in America (you only have to look at postings by people like Ice Tea to see how bad it is).”

“China and India won't be able to compete if their reckless environmental policies continue.

One can only stack #&%!$ but so high.”

“Is there such an occurrance of a Greenhouse Effect...YES!
Do we humans pump greenhouse gasses (carbon dioxide, methane, CFCs, etc.) in to our atmosphere...YES!
Would there still be a Greenhouse Effect if we humans didn't contribute greenhouse gasses...YES!
Does our contribution of greenhouse gasses via the burning of fossil fuels (coal, oil and gas) make a difference in our atmosphere wrt compounding the Greenhouse Effect...YES!
Do natural earth processes add greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere...YES!
Are there *sinks* (oceans, trees, etc) that absorb greenhouse gasses...YES!
Is there scientific evidence proving the levels of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere have been increasing in the last 40 years...YES!
Is there scientific evidence showing the average global temperature has been rising in the last 40 years...YES!
Is there scientific evidence showing the ice caps are melting...YES!
Is there scientific evidence proving the sea level is rising...YES!
Could these trends be caused by natural phenomena such as Milankovich cycles...YES!
Does the Greenhouse Effect also influence these trends...YES!
Are so arrogant to think that our *contributing variable in the Greenhouse Effect formula* does NOT have an effect that changes the total outcome...YES!(imo)”

“Just an aside... we Do have evidence that so-called 'runaway greenhouse effects' can occur: the planet Venus, for example.

Which, BTW, (segue alert) is becoming more visible in the West each day after sunset, along with a naked-eye visible comet (shameless plug for another thread) AND a crescent Moon on Friday & Saturday...


Oh, and you Might want to invest in some Canadian farmland, *G*.”

“Exactly what time does Art Bell come on and does it play in my area? I just want to try and gain a more complete understanding of what ya'll are talkin' 'bout.”

“Art Bell's show usually plays on stations in the middle of the night.”

“Art Bell in your area. You gotta be a night owl.”

“The damage is already done!!! I suggested you all get your kicks before the whole #&%!$house goes up in flames.

Even in this age of the insects we are by far one of the most adaptable creatures to walk the planet. Even if this 'greenhousing' were to accelerate more we would still find a way to survive and combat it.”

“Is Bell still around? I heard he disappeared... like the aliens finally got him.

Well, Briar, folks with the wherewithall (the cash, the technology, etc.) can pull up stakes and survive quite nicely. Folks in the Third World would be screwed, as usual... probably the Second World and a lot of the First, also. But it would begin slowly, gradually... like turning the heat up slowly so that the frog doesn't hop out of the pan.

Hmmm... the forecast for Friday is sunny and 80 degrees.”

“Geez, I've never listened to this dude.
Maybe I'm not getting enough of whatever he's peddling.

If he's sellin' crazy, then I'm not interested.
I'm all stocked up.”

“Art Bell made a killing hawking Y2K stuff.”

“But I don't think we are the only reason...nature takes it's course.

Also, I thought I heard that most meteorologist's believe it's NOT happening? Now that's not the end all ruling, just thought it was interesting. I believe I heard it's like a 80% believe it's not occuring?

This was on talk radio though so who knows???

Live well...”

“As if we can cut down the majority of the trees and burn a zillion barrels of oil without having any effect...sheesh.”

“I don't!

8)”

“Lots of intelligent and informed opininons here - on both sides. It's a professional day here at school after March break; my meetings are over and I'm bored (and putting off correcting - as usual). Here goes.

Whatever is happening climactically - and SOMETHING is happening, the so-called 'experts' and their ridiculous statements drive me crazy. They have far too narrow a view to ever be trusted.

As an example from another field, CBC radio recently interviewed an anthropologist who is an 'expert' on aboriginal nutrition. Here in southern Quebec that means Iroquoian. The Iroquoian peoples (with the semi-exception of the Huron) were agricultural and the agriculture was based on maize (corn). So far so good, but then he went on to discuss corn and state that it was the ONLY vegetable available to the native peoples. This is, of course, rubbish. The Iroquois also cultivated beans (not the European string beans, but 'pork and beans' beans) and several varieties of winter squashes. They also gathered cat-tail tubers and even made flour from them.

This was an expert on aboriginal nutrition in this part of the world, remember.

Now what really makes me crazy about global warming experts is statements such as the melting of the ice caps will cause the inundation of seaboard cities, such as London and New York.

Now, one thousand years ago (just about exactly) the world was beginning to get cold again and Norse settlements were soon to be abandonned because grazing was becomine more and more difficult for the much longer winters. Also fish species were changing because the Arctic Ocean was cooling. Soon the Esquimaux would begin moving in with a technology better suited to a colder climate.

Did I say grazing? Yes I did. Eleven and twelve hundred years ago, Norse settlers from Iceland colonised the west coast of Greenland where there were vast grasslands, hence the name. There they fished and grazed cattle.

Now, London and Dublin, as well as Paris and who knows how many other coastal cities (towns) had already been founded. And guess what? They're STILL THERE - RIGHT where they USED to be!

I'll start worrying about global warming, coastal flooding and universal desertification when they start grazing cattle on the west coast of Greenland again. On second thought, No I won't - because I won't be around.

Meanwhile, happy trails, everyone.”

“Coastal flooding would be a good thing. I won't have to drive my SUV as far to get to the beach.”

“gremlin, where the heck do you find maps that show London and Paris on the coast of anything? WTF?!

Tilt, yes I do CRINGE every time I hear Dubya (or anyone else) say 'nookular'.”

“They'll be on the coast AFTER the global flooding....”

“Global warming is simply GAIA’S ATTEMPT to slough off the HUMAN PARASITE that has invaded her skin. Most of Japan, northern Europe, and the western portion of the United States will SINK to the bottom of the ocean, like Atlantis did. The Great Lakes will EXPAND and MERGE, and empty DIRECTLY south to the Gulf of Mexico. Several small bands of humans will be isolated in four different areas of the globe. The population will dwindle to NEAR EXTINCTION. Right now, your government is working with the Orion Grays to create of A SPACESHIP OF MAMMOTH PROPORTIONS, which will be used by the elite to flee mother Earth. They have no interest in slowing the rise in Gaia’s fever as they plan to be LONG GONE before the CATACLYSM. The approaching comet Ikeya-Zhang, is the LONG AWAITED REPTOID INVASION FORCE. The Hubble ‘telescope’ was recently refitted to improve defenses. They don’t intend to SAVE THE PLANET.”

“Gaia is dead.

I slew her.”

“Is it getting hot in here, or is it me?

testing: 1, 2...


(if this is too small to be useful, give it a click)”

“I think Gordon is forgetting about the Huorns...”

“I saw a scientist on TV recently pushing a theory: that as the atmosphere picks up more carbon dioxide from man's activities, the resulting climate change (global warming) will cause more rain in the far north, and mess with the Gulf Stream and other ocean currents ultimately causing a new ice age.

I can't take it. It's gonna get too hot, it's gonna get too cold, it's gonna get too stormy. Give me a break. There's a simple solution the people have always employed during climate changes. ADAPT!

You might have to farm in Canada or Mexico or grow cotton in Minnesota. Get used to it. The climate will change whether we screw with it or not. If the ocean rises rebuild on higher ground or build dikes like the Dutch. Just Adapt. We always have, always will. Floods come - people rebuild. Tornados come - people rebuild. Look at the rebuilding cycle in Las Vegas. Build a palace (casino). Run it for 30 years. Tear it down. Rebuild a bigger palace..

The alternatives that are being pushed by the scaremongers always, always, always result in more regulations, rules, and loss of freedoms. You can't drive here. You can't build that car. You can't burn this coal. You can't drive to Yosemite because you've exceeded your carbon dioxide allotment. And on and on.

By the way, ya'll are paying my salary to study methods of cutting back on greenhouse gases. Thanks.”

“Here's a link to those wacko's at GSFC I was talking about.”

“Anyone in the DC/Baltimore area could catch a seminar. They're usually held in Building 33 on the east campus.”

“Apparently the majority of the senate doesn't believe in that or that oil is the reason were in such hot water. IDIOTS!”

“Yep, tilt, this sound right up my alley: "Retrieval of columnar aerosol phase function and single-scattering albedo from sky radiance over the ocean: Measurements of African dust"”

“The ice ages always run in cycles, who knows what other factors may be at work. I honestly can't say, but lead, PCB's, and all that other crap is not helping anything. The energy CEO's are worried about the bottom line; while I'm worried about the bottom of my favorite Lake. I always get a good laugh when I see those corporate commercials that parade how much the company "cares" about the environment. If that were true they would make a point of spending a large portion of their profits on R&D related to cleaner operations. It must be a lot cheaper to buy a politician (note: I said politician, not Rep. or Dem. they both do it.)
than to worry about the future. After all their old, and the old #&%!$s only want "thiers" before they go to hell.”