Who's winning this war?

“GUANTANAMO BAY, Cuba (CNN) -- At least two U.S. service members have been transferred from the temporary facility for Afghan war detainees in Cuba after psychologists recommended the move, military officials said.

It was not clear whether they were transferred to other parts of the Guantanamo Bay naval base or off the island altogether.

"We've had a couple of [service members] who have just been assigned to other jobs," said Brig. Gen. Michael Lehnert, commanding general of the U.S. naval base. "Not all people are built for that kind of job."

There have been numerous other reports of US soldier inferiority to to the enemy.”

“I doubt soldier inferiority however I do doubt the plausibility/logistics/affordability of carrying out the war on terrorism on the battlefield(vs intelligence gathering etc).The following article is what concerns me about the effectiveness of our military mission.

By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press Writer


GARDEZ, Afghanistan -- To some veteran Afghan commanders, the recent U.S. offensive against al-Qaida fighters in eastern Afghanistan failed because most of them got away.

Moreover, they say, this month's Operation Anaconda, the biggest U.S.-led offensive of the Afghan war, should serve as a warning of what lies ahead if the United States wants to crush al-Qaida and Taliban forces still in Afghanistan.

According to the Afghans, themselves veterans of the brutal 1980s war against the Soviets, the Americans must be prepared for a protracted series of battles, in which an elusive opponent seemingly suffers a terrible pounding, only to disappear into the formidable terrain -- perhaps to return and fight another day.

"There will only be a guerrilla war with al-Qaida," said Commander Abdullah, a leading Afghan military figure here in Paktia province. "They know how to fight from the jihad (against the Soviets) in small groups in the mountains."

The U.S. military has declared Operation Anaconda, which began winding down last week, a success. The U.S.-led coalition seized control of the Shah-e-Kot valley after nearly two weeks of punishing airstrikes and ground combat -- losing eight American and three Afghan troops.

"Operation Anaconda ... is an incredible success," said Maj. Bryan Hilferty, spokesman of the 10th Mountain Division. "It took only 20 terrorists to kill 3,000 of the world's citizens in the World Trade Towers. We've killed hundreds and that means we've saved hundreds of thousands of lives. This is a great success."

However, Afghan commanders here question that assessment -- as well as the estimate of hundreds of al-Qaida and Taliban casualties.

"Americans don't listen to anyone," said Commander Abdul Wali Zardran. "They do what they want. Most people escaped. You can't call that a success."

U.S. officers have publicly downplayed the significance of body counts, perhaps trying to avoid a repetition of the Vietnam experience where ground commanders felt pressured to report elevated enemy casualties.

"I don't know why we get into a body count," said Col. Frank Wiercinski, brigade commander of the 101st Airborne Division, dismissing questions about the numbers of al-Qaida and Taliban dead.

Apart from killing al-Qaida members, the operation was successful because it broke up a major concentration in a strategic area and yielded valuable information on the terrorist network, U.S. officials say.

To the Afghans, however, killing or capturing the enemy is the whole purpose of guerrilla warfare and the principal measure of success. Otherwise, they say, the opponent will fight again somewhere, someday.

"In my opinion, the campaign failed," Abdullah said. "There were some forces there but during the very heavy bombardment and air strikes they left."

By that measure, the Afghans find little evidence of success.

Shireen Gul, the first Afghan commander to enter Shah-e-Kot at the end of the 12-day operation, found 10 bodies scattered about the area. Commander Zardran, who entered the Shah-e-Kot valley from another direction, said he found 20 bodies in one place and three in another.

Other al-Qaida fighters may have been killed during punishing bombing raids that collapsed a warren of caves burrowed into the mountains.

Asked about estimates of hundreds dead, U.S. special forces troops here cite an intelligence report which said that during the fighting, al-Qaida commanders sent word to a nearby village to prepare hundreds of coffins.

"We heard this thing, but it's not true," Abdullah said. "We don't put our dead in boxes. During the jihad, we buried the dead where they died because they were martyrs. These people would do the same thing."

The Afghans believe that al-Qaida and Taliban forces began leaving the area in small groups once the U.S. bombing intensified, using exfiltration techniques refined against the Soviets.

"I remember once the Russians were bombing and bombing," former guerrilla Mullah Mohammed Khaqzar said. "We left the area in groups of five and 10. We stayed away hidden in the mountains until we knew it was over and then we returned."

Commander Zardran, wrapped in a brown woolen shawl against the wind that whipped thorough his command post south of Gardez, estimated as many as 300 fighters escaped Operation Anaconda and headed toward Pakistan through Urgoon in neighboring Paktika province.

He believes that constituted most of the al-Qaida and Taliban force arrayed against the coalition when the offensive began March 2.

Abdullah agreed that the al-Qaida and Taliban force was smaller than the upper estimates -- some of which ranged as high as 1,000 -- which circulated at the height of the battle.

"When we entered the area, I didn't see any big ammunition stocks and no signs of a big force," Abdullah said. "It's my idea that there was not that many people even in the bunkers and the caves."

Abdullah knows the area well because he fought there in the 1980s with the U.S.-backed Harakat-e-Inqilab Afghanistan, or Revolutionary Movement of Afghanistan.

Khaqzar said the al-Qaida and Taliban fighters will probably travel in small groups throughout the mountain ranges that crisscross Afghanistan until they find a safe place to regroup.

His advice for winning the war is "to know where they are hiding and then send in small commando units to take them out."

"Bombs from B-52s won't defeat al-Qaida or the Taliban," he said.

Copyright 2002 Associated Press

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Copyright 2002 Los Angeles Times
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Powered by Genuity”

“The winner will be stockholders of U.S. defense industries.

Yeah!!”

“now you're gona say that uz by design.”

“We will blow all kinds of crap up, kill hundreds if not thousands and unleash the fury of the the US Military and the talibahn and its supporters will continue to live on and fight another day. Its what they have done for decades and its what they will do forever.”

“Taliban didn't attack the US on 9/11. T'was all Saudis. Is Dubya attacking them? NOOOOOOOOOOO! Is Iraq attacking the US? NOOOOOOOOOOO! But Bush wants to attack them also. Let's just bomb the hell out of France too. Makes sense according to the Dubya Doctrine.”

“You are so nutz!!!!!!


8|”

“Israeli refuseniks. Nearly 400 Israeli army officers are refusing to serve in the occupied Palestinian lands. They see it as immoral and unjust. Yet our two-bit president-appointee Bush continues to support the terrorist tactics of Sharon. This is why America will be destroyed.”

“Ooooooooo!
I'm so skeerd!”

“(CNN) -- In two audiotaped messages broadcast Saturday, a man purporting to be Osama bin Laden discussed Iraq and threatened to launch suicide attacks against the United States and any countries that help it.

According to a CNN translation of the messages aired by the Arabic-language news network Al-Jazeera -- one addressed to Iraqis and Arab Muslims throughout the world, the other to the American people -- feature a man claiming to be the al Qaeda leader discussing suicide attacks against U.S. troops in Iraq and against the Iraqi Governing Council.

He also gave specific figures for the U.S. economy, saying the country is facing a deficit of more than $450 billion. The United States announced an expected $455 billion budget deficit in the current fiscal year July 15.

...............$455 billion annual deficit, and yet Bush still can't get the economy going after writing all that red ink. Imagine the state of US affairs if Bush (like a good Republican) was balancing the budget.”

“Interesting piece from the Charleston (WV) Gazette:

Link to story”

“Despite the provacative language, the article has its facts right, and given the sound premises, it's hard to argue with the conclusion:

A tiny clique planned the Iraq assault for a decade, and the 9/11 tragedy gave them a smokescreen to use as an excuse to start the war. No other explanation adds up.”

“The Pentagon has war plans for every one. That's what they get paid to do.Ask them nice and they
will show you the plans for Canada,etc. Iraq has been skirmishing with us for quite a while. I guess this is the downside of being a super power.”

“Read the article, Elfy. We're not talking about the pentagon.”

“Does anyone else ever get the feeling that the US will fall just as all other empires(superpowers) in history have fallen? And it seems we're moving faster and faster in that direction all the time. The two main ingredients are arrogance and greed.”

“I know,the military takes it's orders from our politicians. The pols decide who to sig them on.
Whether it's a Balkan "diversity war" for Clinton,or pay back from
Bush. Depending on which political camp you set your tent.
I wonder with all the money we spend on Vietnam, Gulf war,etc.
Couldn't we just use all those
Greenbacks to make every one a
Capitolist?”

“Indiana John I agree with you 100%”

“Ultimately you are correct IJ. It's just a matter of when and how. As George Harrison put it, All Things Must Pass.”