Another responsible NRA member

“Nigal - so the answer, rather than trying to find something that works is just to shrug and make sure there are more guns out there?”

“Y2
It's not racist to tell the truth. The fact of the matter is that if you statistically separate crime rates out by race, white Americans have a violent crime rate similar to that of the citizens of Liechtenstein. It is only when you add in the violent crime rates commited by minorities than the USA has one of the highest crime rates in the industrialized West. It's the perverbial elephant in the kitchen that no one want to talk about, but the sad truth is that it's there. Now why minorities commit more violent crimes is open to all kinds of speculation. A racist would say that it is the very nature of the volk. I think that rational people would agree that it really has to do with nurture and a lack of opportunity. That's my opinion. Don't try to put words in my mouth.
>
Violin,
Overall, violent crime has been declining because of age demographics. The assault weapons ban or localized gun control in general had nothing to do with declining crime rates.
>
Countries that have recently had gun ownership outlawed like Canada and Australia are experiencing rising crime rates. Now whether this has to do with the bans is debatable because both countries are experiencing large influxs of minority immigration. Many of these immigrants are on the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. They get mixed up with crime gangs. This happened in the 1850s in NYC when many Irish immigrated to the US and so it was with the Italians when they came over.
>
The bottom line for anyone who feels threatened by crime is this. Do you feel safer with a gun or without one? Remember one thing though, the criminal is always going to have his gun.
>
My preference is to be at the mercy of no man or government. Especially in a country with Orwellian laws such as the PATRIOT Acts I & II.”

““Nigal - so the answer, rather than trying to find something that works is just to shrug and make sure there are more guns out there?”

No I never said that. I just said it wouldn't work. This still is not a reason to not seek registration and required training and testing. If nothing else it would make legal owners safer.”

“Solitary, it is nice to see someone speaking frankly and openly about taboo subjects. I do think a big factor is also economic too.

No one likes to talk about things like the preportions of prison in mates either. Especially when it comes to the percentage of violent criminals who happen to be illegal imigrants.”

“Since Chicago banned handguns, this city often has led the nation in homicides. The gun ban just disarmed the honest citizens. The Chicago Police still confiscate 10,000 illegal guns each year. Gun bans don't work. Gun control just increases crime.”

“I guess its just a matter of time before the Idaho story gets posted. Where two Darwin Award nominees were trying out a flack jacket. Sadly,, one will not be able to attend the ceremony.

Some interesting clips about the AWB,,

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040816-m114754-1427r.htm
The federal assault-weapons ban, scheduled to expire in September, is not responsible for the nation's steady decline in gun-related violence and its renewal likely will achieve little, according to an independent study commissioned by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ).
"We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence," said the unreleased NIJ report, written by Christopher Koper, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. "
(snip)
"The report also noted that assault weapons were "rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban." (snip)
"The report said assault weapons were used in 2 percent of gun crimes reported nationwide before enactment of the 1994 ban. "(snip)

and a few others,,http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba102.html
http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2004/alexander/qtr4/1029.htm

The AWB only covered 19 firearms out of how many makes and models?”

“BR,
The first link didn't work. The second one is a very good read. Thanks for the info.”

“Interesting,,, here you go SH,,

The federal assault-weapons ban, scheduled to expire in September, is not responsible for the nation's steady decline in gun-related violence and its renewal likely will achieve little, according to an independent study commissioned by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ).
"We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence," said the unreleased NIJ report, written by Christopher Koper, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania.

"It is thus premature to make definitive assessments of the ban's impact on gun violence. Should it be renewed, the ban's effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement," said the report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times.
The report also noted that assault weapons were "rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban."
NIJ is the Justice Department's research, development and evaluation agency — assigned the job of providing objective, independent, evidence-based information to the department through independent studies and other data collection activities.
The assault-weapons ban is set to expire Sept. 13, and at least six bills reauthorizing it are pending in the Senate and House.
The issue has sparked nationwide debate: The National Rifle Association has called the ban ineffective in curbing crime and a violation of the Second Amendment, while gun-control advocates have said the nation's streets will be filled with automatic weapons if the ban is not reauthorized.
The assault-weapons ban imposed a 10-year moratorium on the "manufacture, transfer and possession" of certain semiautomatic firearms designated as assault weapons. It banned 18 models and variations by name, as well as revolving-cylinder shotguns, and prohibited flash hiders, folding rifle stocks and threaded barrels for attaching silencers.
A number of the banned weapons were foreign semiautomatic rifles that have been barred from importation into the United States since 1989. The ban also prohibited most ammunition magazines holding more than 10 rounds.
According to recent surveys by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), firearms-related crime has declined to record levels. The violent crime rate has fallen 54 percent since 1993, and there were more than 980,000 fewer violent crimes in 2002 than in 2000.
But in the past three years, according to the BJS, federal gun prosecutions have increased by 68 percent, with the number of persons charged with federal firearms offenses rising by more than 22 percent in fiscal 2003, the largest single-year increase ever recorded.
The 102-page NIJ report said the assault-weapons ban was intended to "reduce gunshot victimizations by limiting the national stock of semiautomatic firearms with large ammunition capacities," although it said the automatic-weapons provision of the bill targeted a "relatively small number of weapons" based on features that had little to do with the weapons' operation.
The report said the removal of those features, such as detachable high-capacity magazines, was "sufficient to make the weapons legal."
In 1994, when the ban was approved by Congress, 1.5 million privately owned assault weapons were thought to be in the United States. The report said assault weapons were used in 2 percent of gun crimes reported nationwide before enactment of the 1994 ban. It also said assault weapons and other guns equipped with large-capacity magazines accounted for a higher share of the guns used to kill police officers and in mass public shootings, although such incidents were "very rare."
The report said the relatively rare use of assault weapons in crimes was attributable to a number of factors: Most assault weapons are rifles, which are used much less often than handguns, a number of the weapons were barred from importation before the ban was enacted, and the weapons are expensive and difficult to conceal.
"The ban's success in reducing criminal use of the banned guns and magazines has been mixed," the report said, noting that because the ban had not yet reduced the use of large-capacity magazines in crime, researchers could not "clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence."
The report said although the ban's reauthorization or expiration could affect gunshot victimizations, predictions were "tenuous." It said restricting the flow of large-capacity magazines into the United States from abroad might be necessary to achieve the ban's desired effects.
But it said it was not known whether mandating further design changes in the outward features of semiautomatic weapons — such as removing all military-style features — would produce measurable benefits beyond restricting ammunition capacity.
Past experience also suggests that congressional discussion of broadening the assault-weapons ban to new models or features would raise prices and production of the weapons being considered, the report said, adding that if the ban were lifted, gun and magazine manufacturers could reintroduce weapons and magazines in substantial numbers. But, the report said, any resulting increase in crimes with assault weapons and large-capacity magazines might increase gunshot victimizations, "though this effect could be difficult to measure."

By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES”

“Lake Elsinore man fired on group toilet-papering houses

A Lake Elsinore man allegedly chased down and shot a soldier home on leave from Iraq early Thursday, after catching him with a group toilet-papering his yard and other homes in the neighborhood. Aubrey Weldon, 34, a construction worker, was so angry about his Riverside County neighborhood being festooned with toilet paper that he chased down the group in his truck on the 29000 block of 3rd Street, started fighting with them and then pulled out a handgun and opened fire at 12:30 a.m., said Sgt. Earl Quinata of the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.
[...]
Michael Lombardi, who said he is Weldon's best friend and owns the house where Weldon lives, defended his roommate.

"It's a damn shame it had to turn out that way, but you have to protect what's yours," Lombardi said. "I'm not saying [Alvarado] got what he deserved. I hope he lives. I really do for my roommate's benefit…. [But] don't paint this rosy little picture of innocent little teens. The man lying in the [hospital] bed is 25 years old."
[...]
"My roommate made some … poor decisions. On the flip side, he's not going to watch those punks take over this neighborhood," Lombardi said.
[...]”

“The man flipped.

Maybe the title should read, "Another responsible construction member".”

“another responsible 34-year old

oh crap, that includes me

ban crash! bang!”

“I didn't see anything about this guy being in the NRA.”

“WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A three-star Marine general who said it was "fun to shoot some people" should have chosen his words more carefully, the Marine Corps commandant said Thursday.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who commanded Marine expeditions in Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday during a panel discussion in San Diego, California.

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/general.shoot/index.html”

“I didn't see anything about the NRA even mentioned.”

“Oh yeah! I'd feel comfortable serving under that moron...”

“When I heard what he'd said, the very next thing I thought of was Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.”

“C'mon Nigal, ain't that the type of personality that would join the NRA?

"You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."
- Lt. Gen. James Mattis

That's probably what those in the middle-east think about American soldiers who kill their women and children.”

“White Supremacist Charged With Selling Machine Guns

SEATTLE (AP) - Federal agents arrested three men on gun and explosives charges Tuesday, including a white supremacist who once served time for plotting to kill Martin Luther King Jr.
Keith Gilbert, 65, a former associate of late Aryan Nations founder Richard Butler, was arrested at his Seattle home, FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said.

William D. Heinrich, 50, a former aide to Butler, and John P. Hejna, 44, were also arrested.

A complaint said Gilbert had sold AK-47 assault rifles and other weapons to a confidential informant working with the federal government over the past two years. He was charged with various weapons offenses, including being a felon in possession of a firearm.

Gilbert was arrested in 1965 and convicted of stealing 1,400 pounds of TNT, which authorities said was part of a plot to kill King by blowing up a stage while he spoke at an Anti-Defamation League convention in Los Angeles.

After serving five years in Alcatraz for the plot, Gilbert moved to northern Idaho and became involved with Butler's neo-Nazi group. They had a falling out in 1977.

Gilbert was convicted in 1983 of assaulting a teenager from a racially mixed family.

A separate complaint accused Heinrich of selling a pistol to an informant, and Hejna was accused of being involved in selling the plastic explosive C-4.”

“Looks to me like there is a closer connection with Sen. Robert Byrd (D,WV) than there is to NRA. I guess I must have missed something.”

“I'll bet that Byrd is a member.”

“Seattle ??

Blue State values ??”

“Unless the man modified the AK-47 it was not a machine gun. And where in the article does it show the man's NRA membership card?”

“what\'s wrong w/ that? church-affiliated groups in montana here raffle guns away:

http://missoulian.com/articles/2005/02/16/religion/zreligion02.txt
Banquet will raise funds for High Point Adventures
High Point Outdoor Adventures\' (formerly Christian Sportsmen\'s Fellowship) annual fund-raising banquet is Feb. 12 at 5 p.m. at the Holiday Inn Parkside. Featured in several Missoulian articles, HPOA serves the area with everything from hunting/fishing trips for needy and handicapped individuals to family camp-outs to relationship building between one another and God, organizers said.

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2004/12/02/outdoors/od01.txt”

“SH - If anything has to do with guns you are automatically an NRA member. You know the Violin rules.”

“Tis is a lame article. The headlines said the same kind of thing about Randy Weaver when they tried railroading him after Ruby Ridge. That was when an FBI agent murdered his 15 year old son by shooting him in the back and in the subsequent standoff murdered his wife as she held a one year old baby in her arms.
>
Trust nothing the FBI says. They are pond scum.
last edited: 2/16/05 3:02:52 PM”

“I am a member of the NRA! I'm also a member of the Sierra Club and Oxfam too. There is nothing wrong with any of those organizations.”

“I didn't say there was anything wrong with them.

It would be funny to pack heat at a Sierra Club meeting though.”

“SH, shoot a starving whale....eh? :o)”

“"Violin I'm surprised you would post this crap
“Tis is a lame article."

I nominate solitary Hiker as the most gullible Tter ever! Violin has always used half truths and out right lies in his posts.”

“This stuff is posted on this thread to represent the implications of the policies backed and lobbied for by the NRA. You don't need to take it that everyone that does a bad thing listed on here is a member.”

“Nigal,
I'm not gullible. I know $hit when I read it and I said so. This article had nothing to do with the NRA. If Violin is trying to bait me that's fine. I look for opportunities to tell gun control idiots and the federales what I think about them.
>
v2
"This stuff is posted on this thread to represent the implications of the policies backed and lobbied for by the NRA."
>
You're full of $hit too. My guns and the guns of other NRA members are the only things keeping this sad "republic" from being a 100 percent police state right now.”

“I didn’t mean to make it sound like you’re dumb or anything. It’s no secret that Violin will say any and everything he can simply to get a reaction. He has even resorted to out right lies and more often, half-truths just to get people going.”

“Today's paper had an article about a couple Sheriff Deputies who got fired for spotlighting deer. I am not sure who to blame.

The NRA
Law Enforcement
All Hunters
George Bush
White people
People who eat meat
The taxidermist
The deer?”

“All the world's ills are but six degrees from Bush. It all goes back to Bush.”

“No offense taken. And about the deputies? What happened to personal responsibility? They're the ones who were spotlighting. Let's blame them.”

“Ouch!! What a concept.

You are way too wack, dude.”

“My faith in liberals has been wounded.”

“Sounds like the system is working to me. Illegal gun sales busted by law enforcement. What's the issue here?

I love how the the media calls an AK a "machine gun". How slanted can you get?”

“Yeah I don't get it. For someone who's such a touchy racebaiter like Violin he sure does like to paint other groups with a wide brush.”

“Racebaiter? Like how?”

“He claimed I called his wife a wetback and then fabricated a post to try and prove it. And then got busted on it. He never even apologized for it and I've never let him forget it. Real stand up guy that Violin is. LOL!”

“Ouch! Thanks for the heads up.”

“Nigal.......cry baby !!

Without ViOlIn you would probaby leave TT.”

“Thanks for the advice Gramps.”

“Just wanted to warm my ass by the fire.”

“No wonder he hikes alone. The paranoia might make him shoot anyone he heads off into the woods with.”

“TYLER, Texas (AP) -- A man angry about being sued for unpaid child support opened fire with an AK-47 assault rifle outside a courthouse, killing his ex-wife and a man trying to help the couple's adult son.

The gunman, 43-year-old David Hernandez Arroyo Sr., was killed Thursday afternoon in a gun battle with officers a few miles away after wounding his son and three law enforcement officers, one critically.

The son had been acting as a mediator between his parents, police said.

Police estimated that Arroyo, who had a history of spousal abuse and weapons violations, shot 50 rounds in the historic town square. He was wearing a military flak jacket and a bulletproof vest.

"He definitely came well-armed and prepared," police Chief Gary Swindle said. "We do understand there had been some threats made by him the previous week."

But the attorney representing Maribel Estrada, 41, said he doesn't believe she thought her ex-husband was dangerous. Estrada worked at a meat packing plant in Tyler and raised a 17-year-old and a 6-year-old with the help of her eldest son, Joshua Wintters said.

The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds. A sheriff's deputy, Sherman Dollison, 28, was in critical condition after being shot in the liver, lungs and legs; a sheriff's lieutenant and a Tyler police detective were treated and released.

"One of the deputies at the scene said if it hadn't been for Mr. Wilson," said Sheriff J.B. Smith, "the son would be dead."

Friends who visited the son in the hospital Thursday night said he told them that his father was always open about having a collection of weapons.

Aurea Seanez said the son told them, "And look now, he used them on us."

Wilson, a gun enthusiast who once owned a shooting range, intervened after Arroyo killed his ex-wife, witnesses said. Swindle, the police chief, said Wilson shot at Arroyo several times but his rounds weren't penetrating the armor.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/25/tx.town.square.shootings.ap/index.html”

“If I'm reading this correctly, the good guy (Wilson) saved the life if the son by being armed.”

“Too bad Wilson didn't shoot out the killer's legs (maybe he was hiding behind a car). I know, automatically, a shooter will aim at the biggest mass (chest area), under stressful conditions.

It's only when you have a few seconds to think....before you aim at different parts of his body. And it's still hard to hit them...especially if the killer is moving around.”

“and got killed in the process?”