Another responsible NRA member

“I don't know Nigal - every American family having their own arms dump would seem to be exactly what the nra would like to see.”

“perhaps a responsible arms dump. The Eddie eagle program has been recognized numerous times as one the best firearms safety programs for children that exists.”

“Interesting, bearm, and thanks. I never witnessed any veterans getting spit on. I'd hate to think I was believing an urban myth. I'll research that.”

“However, abortion is not a right specifically guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.

The right to "life" is. It doesn't guarantee your right to "choice".”

““I don't know Nigal - every American family having their own arms dump would seem to be exactly what the nra would like to see."

The NRA advocates the right for people to own legal firearms legally and responsibly. So lets turn this around then. Are you advocating that a person should be limited in the number of firearms they may own? What would you say if someone was advocating limiting the number of times someone can vote in their lives? Or limiting the number of time someone can use their free speech? The number of abortions they may get? How about limiting the number of cars someone can own? It’s the anit-gun advocates vilification of firearms that lead to this type of unreasonable thinking and frivolous attitude to constitutional rights.

Every hue of the political spectrum has their pet rights and this is fine. What is important to me may not be important to you. It’s when we hold one right above the rest or one below the rest that you compromise all rights. I don’t believe in abortion but I’d fight for that right too. The constitution is a package deal. Failure to uphold any single right and the rest will fall with it.”

“We keep forgetting that the foundation to Liberal Socialisim is "FEELINGS". There is no way to quantify or laogically explain a FEELING. It just is. Saying you are ANGRY about something...how can you quantify how much ANGRIER or Whatever you are than the next person.

Liberalisim works off emotion therefore you cannot truly carry out liberalisim and be logical.”

“I try very hard to divest myself from political parties when it comes to constitutional rights. It’s not liberal or conservative. It’s about liberty. I am always flabbergasted when someone asked, “Why do you want a gun? What do you need a gun for? Why do you want to carry a gun?”. The liberties and rights of the law abiding citizen needs no justification. We do not need to justify any of our other rights in order to exercise them. So why gun ownership?”

“The right wing god squad doesn't have any of those irrational emotional issues. Think before pulling out your big brush.”

““I try very hard to divest myself from political parties when it comes to constitutional rights. It’s not liberal or conservative. It’s about liberty. I am always flabbergasted when someone asked, “Why do you want a gun? What do you need a gun for? Why do you want to carry a gun?”. The liberties and rights of the law abiding citizen needs no justification. We do not need to justify any of our other rights in order to exercise them. So why gun ownership?”
DeadNBloated
8:49:29 AM
5/25/06

Great post.”

“The right to own guns exists for the sole purpose of deer hunting, plain and simple.

orrrrr ..... it's to be able to kill people and defend yourself in battle.

Which is it?

If I'm in battle, I sure as heck on't want a single-shot peashooter. (nor will that be what I have, regardless of what laws they pass)”

“All this time I thought Vietnam vets were being disrespected, but it turns out they were really the toast of the town and mothers brought them home to meet their daughters.


Urban myth or not, whether or not soldiers were spat on, the truth remains they were treated very badly by the American public and no rewriting of history can change that.”

“This is one of the reasons the NRA has started defending the hunter’s rights now. The anti-gun organizations are changing gears and going after hunting. No hunting, no reason for guns.”

“thats silly, the right to bear arms is in the costitution so that the people can rise up and overthrow the government if need be.”

“And to defend ones home from an outside invading army (Great Britain was still a threat at the time the Bill of Rights was writen).
last edited: 5/25/06 8:20:21 AM”

“The level of disrespect, to be spat on, is important. "Lefties spitting on soldiers" might be considered a cornerstone in the anti-leftie/protest rhetoric.

If it's a myth it needs to be exposed”

“And I think there is nothing wrong with owning guns. I do believe there should be more limits on type of weaponary, that's all.”

“"I do believe there should be more limits on type of weaponary, that's all.”

Can one limit the kind of free speech we use? There are already limits on what types of firearms one can own.”

“We should be allowed no less weapondry capability than the average American soldier.”

“Can one limit the kind of free speech we use? There are already limits on what types of firearms one can own.”
DeadNBloated
2:17:15 PM
5/25/06

Sort of. You can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded building. But I think that is analogous to using a gun to rob a bank.”

“GREEN RIVER, Wyoming (AP) -- A trooper shot and killed a motorist after the man rammed into and shot at several vehicles along Interstate 80, but no one else was seriously injured, authorities said.

Authorities said two people were treated for bruises and cuts from broken glass after Thursday night's incident.

The identity of the man police killed was not immediately released.

"He didn't know any of those people he rammed," Wyoming Highway Patrol Sgt. Stephen Townsend said. "We don't know where he was coming from or where he had been."

Authorities received several reports Thursday night of a man in a white Jeep driving about 100 mph and ramming vehicles along a five-mile stretch of the interstate in southwestern Wyoming.

The man switched directions several times and tried to hit cars head-on, Townsend said. Troopers fired at the man after he got out of his vehicle at one of the crash scenes.

"The individual raised up, raised his weapon as if he were going to fire at them, and that's when the trooper fired," Townsend said.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/26/wyoming.shooting.ap/index.html


Must have been another NRA nut angry that his gun rights might be taken away.”

“Hmmm, nope, nothing about the NRA in this story either. Why can't anyone find me actuial news stories about the evils of the NRA?”

“Think of the NRA as an enabler Nigal.”

“uummm... because there isn't any?”

“so floods are a reason to loot? is that what you mean y2?”

““Think of the NRA as an enabler Nigal.”

How so. Can you give an example?”

“The successful NRA campaign for the removal of the assault weapons ban makes it easier for most anyone to go any buy one and shoot up the local police station.
last edited: 5/26/06 2:42:13 PM”

“LOL @ Y2 - that's gotta be the dumbest thing I've seen you say about guns.”

“Well Mutt - I'd say the fact that the guy's house in Fairfax contained 15-20 guns made it easier for him to load up, walk to the local police station and kill two police officers and injure at least one other.”

“The Assault Weapons ban wasn't "removed", it expired. Do you know of or can you find any instance where a legally purchased "assault weapon" was used toshoot up a police station?”

“If someone steals one from the legal owner and uses it, what ?”

“I believe the shooting Y2 is referencing involved an AK-47. Legal? Not sure yet.”

““The successful NRA campaign for the removal of the assault weapons ban makes it easier for most anyone to go any buy one and shoot up the local police station.”

Why do you think it was allowed to expire? Because it did absolutely nothing.”

“If these laws do nothing why do we need the NRA?”

“Charlton Heston would have to go on a killing spree through your local Walmart before you'd accept that the NRA's campaigning has any role in the numerous crazies that are able to arm themselves to the teeth and shoot anyone and everyone they come across.”

““Charlton Heston would have to go on a killing spree through your local Walmart before you'd accept that the NRA's campaigning has any role in the numerous crazies that are able to arm themselves to the teeth and shoot anyone and everyone they come across.”


Emotional outbursts like this are what show just how divorced from reason you are.
It’s completely devoid of any substance too. My suggestion to you is to avoid these discussions where you’re only armed with rhetoric. They never go well for you.”

“Thank you Nigal!!! I try to stay away from all the fuego, but I cant help myself on this topic. I heard so many of these foolish claims that the laws are going stop gun voilence, and keep guns away from kids, and criminals etc... but I couldn't help but truly laugh out loud at Y2. You know, I bought my daughter her first rifle for her 7th birthday, and this year she got a bow. She loves them. It teaches excelent hand-eye coordination, patience, discipline, and is a lot better for her than playing video games. I have been target shooting, and hunting since the same age, and have never aimed a firearm at another human. God willing I wont need to, but threaten my family and see what happens. Read the stories about New Orleans in the days after the storms, and the mayor started confiscating guns. There is your proof, that can't be denied.


BTW, Bmag my father flew into NY in uniform, and was given the bird by passing cars shortly after getting his duffel. This is not being spat upon, but a serious insult none the less, especially when directed at someone simply for wearing a U.S. Army uniform. Had they knew what they were doing, they may have thought twice. My father was never in Vietnam, though he was drafted, and served as an MP in Germany during the Vietnam war.”

“Gun Seller's Case Reveals Hurdles Of Enforcement
Md. Shop's Decade of Lapses Brings Scrutiny to House Bill

By Amit R. Paley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 23, 2006; A01

PARKVILLE, Md. -- Sanford M. Abrams began selling guns from his shop in Baltimore County in 1996 and almost immediately started losing track of them.

In 1997, he couldn't account for 45. In 2001, it was 133. In 2003, there were 422 firearms missing -- more than a quarter of his inventory -- including semiautomatic assault rifles, 12-gauge shotguns and Glock 9mm pistols, according to federal investigators.

This year, a decade after he started losing track of guns, Abrams's store lost its firearms license. But he still intends to sell guns.

The tale of Abrams and his Valley Gun Shop -- which regulators describe in court records as "a serial violator" that has "endangered the public" -- illustrates the difficulty government regulators face in shutting down even those dealers found to have persistently flouted the nation's gun laws. The controversy is the subject of fierce debate in Congress.

Abrams, a member of the National Rifle Association's board of directors, did not dispute the substance of more than 900 violations of federal gun laws filed against his store. But he called them unintentional recordkeeping errors that posed no threat to public safety and said it is impossible for anyone to comply with all firearms regulations...

...By 2000, ATF had identified Valley Gun as one of the 41 most "uncooperative" dealers in the country in responding to requests for information needed to trace guns linked to crime. Abrams sued the agency after it asked him to turn over records, but the courts eventually ruled against him.

An inspection the next year revealed more than 100 missing guns, failures to perform proper background checks and improper sales records on 419 of 933 transactions examined. Under normal circumstances, the agency would move to revoke his license. But because of Abrams's position on the NRA board and his previous lawsuit against ATF, agency officials chose to hold a highly unusual second warning conference, according to two senior ATF officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case...

Then a 2003 audit found that several machine guns had been sold without proper records; a gun had been sold without a proper background check; and 422 guns -- 28 percent of the 1,524 that should have been in his inventory -- were missing. Some of the guns were later found to have been sold but not properly accounted for...

...Valley Gun was then ranked 37th of 80,000 dealers in the country for firearms linked to crime, according to a 2004 study by Americans for Gun Safety. Almost 500 guns associated with crime were traced back to the store, the study found...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/22/AR2006072201032_pf.html
last edited: 7/24/06 8:41:47 AM”

“So you advise taking the guns from the honest and law abiding to PROTECT THEM???

Good idea and since so many people get so mad about various insulting jokes and comments it is about time to abolish the FIRST AMENDMENT TOO (LOL)....”

“He failed to comply with the law and was found guilty of a federal law which should disqualify his even being able to purchase weapons for sale. Thus he should already be out of the loop. What’s the big difficulty in regulating beside the fed’s failure? The system now is on the spot and background checks are done in five minutes (thanks to the NRA!). So what is the big deal? This shows a failure of the enforcment of the law. Not the law.

He was wrong and he should pay the price.”

“There does appear to be something smelly happening at Valley Gun.





Also interesting in a different way....could inspire some added debate:

By 2000, ATF had identified Valley Gun as one of the 41 most "uncooperative" dealers in the country

Valley Gun was then ranked 37th of 80,000 dealers in the country for firearms linked to crime”

“Exactly Noncom! What the hell were they doing for 6 years? This isn't a problem with the guns. It's a problem with the government and it's failure to do it's job. And people are surprised when the government fails? They expect better? Haha! Suckers!”

“Nigal in the 1990's there were something like 20,000 violations of the Gun background check...there were NONE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA in prosecutions.

It ain't the law its the enforcement”

“I think it is quite obvious from that article that this country needs more gun laws. If we had more gun laws this would have never happened [/sarcasm]”

“Interesting. I would think it shows the law has no teeth and the ATF is gutless.

Put it down as another toothless dept with FDA, EPA, etc.”

“I was buying beer across the street from Valley Gun just yesterday.
There are few places that have Sunday sales.

They had a big sign in the window of Valley Gun.......BLOW OUT SALE......while they got rid of their inventory.

The wording strikes me as funny!

Should not this joker be in prison??
I'm sure the Baltimore Tugs appreciate this guys sales policy.


Machine guns???
Nice!!”

“And doesn't this man/store appear to have the full backing of the NRA? Might this be blind defense?”

“If he has been convicted of a crime such as this he should step down from the board. Has he been convicted yet?”

“I don't see where it says he has full backing of the NRA but that may be what the article (or the poster, lol) means to imply.



Something a little disconcerting about a gun shop being right next to a liquor store. BLOW OUT is pretty damn funny wording too!”

“I did say "appear" due to perceived silence of the NRA (this is not the first time I've read about this issue) so you are right. I do not know how the NRA has or hasn't dealt with this. here's some more fun stats, circa 1997:

A lifelong Maryland resident, Sandy Abrams, 48, currently is Vice President of the Maryland Licensed Firearms Dealers Association, Inc. It was founded 10 years ago as an industry trade association.

A manufacturers’ representative in the firearms field, he is listed in WHO’S WHO IN SALES AND MARKETING. Sandy is President of RSM, Inc., which is trading in Baltimore, Maryland as Valley Gun.

He serves as Executive Producer of the Charlton Heston Celebrity Shoot. He also is a member of the Governor’s Executive Advisory Council of the Weapons Abuse Reduction Committee. His own shooting preferences are handguns and sporting clays.

http://www.ccrkba.org/defender1997.htm#May

No, I don't have anything more recent. I said "fun".”

“He ran for govenor in 1990 as...[drum roll]...a democrat.”